Saints fans still complaining about the refs

[JMC00]

Or when it's Gronkowski getting nailed for a ticky-tack holding call in the 4th quarter that cost us the game against Arizona last year. Every time idiots claim that the calls always got the Pats way, feel free to point to either that game or the Ravens game last year.

Pats got shafted in both games, which is how it goes. Sometimes the bad calls go your way, sometimes they don't.

Almost forgot about that one.

 

[Kontradiction]

Or when it's Gronkowski getting nailed for a ticky-tack holding call in the 4th quarter that cost us the game against Arizona last year. Every time idiots claim that the calls always got the Pats way, feel free to point to either that game or the Ravens game last year.

Pats got shafted in both games, which is how it goes. Sometimes the bad calls go your way, sometimes they don't.

Missed holding and in the grasp on the Tyree catch as well.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Missed holding and in the grasp on the Tyree catch as well.

I don't thnk it was in the grasp, but holding definitely.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

After that "Chandler Jones is great. He gets held every play" thread from last week, I did notice a few blockers getting skinned alive by Jones only to drag him down by his shoulder pads. He got horse-collared on one play. That was pretty unbelievable.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Interestingly Drew Brees called a timeout in the 3rd quarter but didn't get it, so the Saints still had that timeout. So when he took over after Brady failed to convert that 4 down, Brees called the last timeout, while his team was in the lead in patriots territory. After Brady converted that 4th down to Collie at the end of the game, the defense could've called that timeout since they were so confused and the last play probably fails. It seems to me that Brees and Payton need to take situational football 101 again.

 

[WhoaDirty]

I see that all the time but rarely see it get called. At this point I wonder if there is some technical rule that makes it legal.

I was doing some reading on a non-football site yesterday (I think Reddit) and someone posted the rule on holding. It kind of read that you can do what Solder did, as long as you don't continue to block that way or turn the defender. So it could be that that type of play is legal. That screenshot looks particularly damning, but it doesn't look quite so bad in real time.

 

[PatsSox363804]

I was doing some reading on a non-football site yesterday (I think Reddit) and someone posted the rule on holding. It kind of read that you can do what Solder did, as long as you don't continue to block that way or turn the defender. So it could be that that type of play is legal. That screenshot looks particularly damning, but it doesn't look quite so bad in real time.

The picture makes it look like he was holding him for 3-4 seconds to prevent a sack. Watch it in real time, I don't even think it's a full second:

Tom Brady's game winning touchdown pass to Kembrell Thompkins vs Saints 10/13 - YouTube

 

[PatsSox363804]

I just timed it. From the time the "hold" is engaged until Brady releases the ball it's .4 seconds. No ref is throwing a flag there.

For comparison, I also watched the Tyree play and from the time the first hold is applied to Manning getting out of it (not throwing the ball yet) it was 2full seconds.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

I thought the Patriots got an extra time out too when watching the game, but I watched on tivo and realized the problem was that Fox inaccurately took away a timeout thinking the Patriots had called one earlier in the fourth quarter when they didn't. The clock didn't stop. It took a while for them to figure out the mistake, but they got it correct.

As for the other team complaining after a tough loss, we do it too. Has anyone read the Cinci post-game thread? We're no different than they. Sure, every once in a while someone posts something like "I thought the Patriots got away with ____" and then declares themself the one true objective fan in the universe. But everyone watches a game through their own prism.

Interestingly, though, nobody is being unfair or "biased" in a pejorative sense. Perception is an extremely complicated phenomenon. It's more complicated than a pithy statement, but there is a great deal of truth to the axiom that one sees what one wants to see. But the point is that Saints fan truly do see the game different from how we do -- that is, they actually perceive it differently. Of all the information provided to their brains, their brains process and assimilated differently from how our brains see the exact same event. It's the nature of the business. Lots of great experiments about this. None more seminal and groundbreaking than the original word on the subject -- a 1954 scholarly journal about a game played in 1951 -- "They Played a Game." As the authors conclude, while one game was played, the only thing that ultimate matters is how the game was experienced by each of its viewers or even by those who didn't view it but heard about it and viewed it later. It's not just "a" game, but millions of games, every single one of them different. Selective Perception: They Saw A Game by Albert H. Hastorf & Hadley Cantril

 

[PrairiePat]

It makes you wonder what can be done about subjective calls like Holding and PI. I'm pretty sure there's holding on every single pass play (and most running plays), and Pass Interference by both offense and defense on almost every pass. When it actually gets called seems like a coin toss.

You could add more sets of eyes to watch every player, but even then it's still a judgement call. And that would just result in 50 more penalties a game

 

[Kontradiction]

I don't thnk it was in the grasp, but holding definitely.

It could have been called ITG, but I don't fault them so much for not calling that, given the stage. The missed holding was much more egregious

 

[nabwong]

I think the saints fans this week and our fans last week are a bunch of spoilt ungrateful brats. Look, both teams are 5-1 with little threat from their own division. Last week, Brady just played awful and this week Brady just played awesome. Sometimes people make plays. That's the end of it. Refs are gonna make mistakes all the time. You have to live with it. That's why sports is so exciting. That's why life is so exciting.

 

[Roboturner913]

From this Saints fan:

Yes, I was not happy with the officiating. It was a poorly called game. The flag on the Malcolm Jenkins hit was 100% the wrong call, as was the false start on what should've been encroachment. Not giving Brees the timeout was bad too. The holding on Galette on the last play, meh. Doesn't bug me too much. There was holding on both sides throughout the game. Corrente's crew is pretty well known for "letting them play."

Unfortunately officiating does decide games, just because they're so close so often. I'm sure we'll win a game or two this year the same way. You can assume it all evens out in the end. At least for us this was a non-conference loss so it doesn't hurt us too much. Still a devastating loss when you take into account how it happened. All game long our defense stayed aggressive, then they started playing scared. I still can't believe Jabari Greer. He is too good a player to be making a rookie mistake like that. Can't believe our terrible 4-minute-offense either. Payton must've gone to the Andy Reid School of Clock Management in the offseason or something. Barf.

Still you could tell the Saints really wanted that game. Pats did too. I take that as a sign of mutual respect. Both teams were thinking, "man if we can beat those guys we are proving something."

Much respect to Tom Brady for just being the amazing player he is, one of my all-time favorite players period. I still hate Joe Montana's guts from when I was a kid because we had some real good teams with great defenses and he just was always in the way. Brady reminds me so much of Montana but I don't have to hate him. LOL

Even more respect to Belichick for a masterful game plan. He took Graham out of the game completely and that is something that nobody else has managed to do. It's not like nobody else has put their #1 corner on Jimmy but then again not everybody has a guy like Talib.

Didn't appreciate our defense celebrating early, but they are a bunch of young guys so hopefully they've learned a valuable lesson. Brutal time to learn it though. Damn. No kidding, this loss really hurts a lot. If there is one team I don't hate losing to its the Patriots though, in a lot of way the Saints owe their success to the Patriots because in a lot of ways they've built their team in the same way the Pats have over the years - low-round draft picks, underrated free agents, finding players to fit roles instead of just trying to get superstars at every position and having a quarterback/coach combo that is thoroughly immersed in every part of the game plan.

Anyway, much respect, hopefully these two teams will meet in the Super Bowl. That would be something to see.

 

[Big-T]

Yes, I was not happy with the officiating. It was a poorly called game.

It was indeed.

The flag on the Malcolm Jenkins hit was 100% the wrong call,

No it wasn't wrong, the rule is contact head or neck area of a receiver - not specifically helmet to helmet. They also missed the hit on Amendola later by Bush.

as was the false start on what should've been encroachment.

Agreed, that one was a strange one - even at full speed it looked like encroachment to me (and most others, for that matter).

Not giving Brees the timeout was bad too.

It's not rare to see officials miss players calling for a time out BUT it was after the play clock hit zero anyway, so if anything they missed a delay of game penalty.

The rest of your post is all good stuff - but don't be so harsh on Greer, the Safety (Bush?) was more at fault, he froze and seemingly couldn't decide whether to go over the top of KT or Austin Collie - hindsight says he should have helped Greer, but hindsight is always 20/20!

 

[juny]

It was indeed.



No it wasn't wrong, the rule is contact head or neck area of a receiver - not specifically helmet to helmet. They also missed the hit on Amendola later by Bush.

footballzebras take on the Malcolm penalty and the non-call on Amendola. Scroll halfway down the page.

Quick calls: Week 6 | Football Zebras

 

[E1Downey]

Meh. The only thing theyre acting like is football fans. Fans of every team do the exact same thing. Including our team.

It's sucks when bad calls happen but as long as they're not intentional then it's nothing more than an unfortunate part of the game. Just as denial is part of being a passionate fan. Some fans.

 

[pats4life12]

Your complaining beacuse you lost 1 game early in the seasson really?? step into our shoes and go undefeated and loseing in the superbowl. The conspiracy therory is not true refs miss calls every week.

 

[Shockt327]

Anyone come across this gif, via Saints whiners?

If so, feel free to respond with this:
(bad officiating really does go both ways)

BTW - That "hold" was just one play before Brees's 3rd and 20 TD pass, too.

---
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[Oinko]

 

[Roboturner913]

The rest of your post is all good stuff - but don't be so harsh on Greer, the Safety (Bush?) was more at fault, he froze and seemingly couldn't decide whether to go over the top of KT or Austin Collie - hindsight says he should have helped Greer, but hindsight is always 20/20!

Bush is in a tough spot there. He is almost never out of position, but Jenkins got beat off the line. So he's looking at the guy Jenkins is trailing, and then he's looking at #38 doing the little circle route over the middle. At the same time Brady looks at the middle of the field for just a second to draw him back toward the right. Tough play. But Jabari just screwed up. When you've got one-on-one coverage on the outside receiver you absolutely cannot let him beat you to the corner like that.

Again that was part of the genius of the Pats gameplan though. Playing offense at such a high tempo was something the Saints defense - any defense for that matter - can't deal with. The chess match going on in this game was crazy fun to watch. These two teams were playing the game on a whole another level than any other game I saw this week.

Meh. The only thing theyre acting like is football fans. Fans of every team do the exact same thing. Including our team.

It's sucks when bad calls happen but as long as they're not intentional then it's nothing more than an unfortunate part of the game. Just as denial is part of being a passionate fan. Some fans.

Appreciate takes like this.

I imagine if the game had gone the other way, most of the people calling out Saints fans as being "whiners" or "losers" or whatever would probably be voicing their displeasure with the officiating as well.

My guess is, probably every team gets a win or two each year where the officiating plays a major factor, and a loss or two as well. No conspiracy, just the way it is.

Officating has gone way downhill in recent years, I don't really blame the refs for the most part, a lot of it is simply because the rule book has become so complicated and overwrought with tiny details that the spirit of the rules gets lost in the technicalities.

I mean, there was a game in 2011 in Tennessee I think we had where Graham had a touchdown called back because his foot moved one tiny little blade of grass that was out of bounds. Literally ONE blade of grass. And they're zoomed in on it as far as they can get, debating whether that one blade of grass moved for like 10 minutes during the review. I mean, really? This is what football has become? It's all messed up.