Sad to see BB's legacy ripped apart like this

[Deus Irae]

that roster was loaded for that run.......brady may have put them over the edge, but that was a championship cailber team ready to roll......that team was built to win last year and this year

Ahh, yes.....



The history re-write

 

[LightSkinSmurf]

All I know is, playing super conservative is not winning football games right now. Maybe try not playing so timid with zero confidence in your QB? Just a thought.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The fact they're even in games like these tells you all you need to know about Belichick as a coach.

Sorry Ian, but I just don't understand this reasoning. Not at all. The team had an over/under of this year of 9.5 wins...they're supposed to have roughly average roster talent or maybe a little better. They were 3.5 point underdogs and were supposed to be in this game. It seems like the bar always moves with Belichick...the team's perceived talent always changes retroactively and sinks to a level below where they perform, to account for Belichick's coaching. What if the team is actually pretty good and they should absolutely be competitive at home against Tampa and Dallas? The Falcons and Eagles played the Bucs tough into the fourth quarter, too...no one is saying their coaches are the great equalizer.

And by this token, isn't Mike McCarthy the best coach in the league, since before the season very few thought Dallas would be 5-1 with their roster? What about the coaching job by Houston's coach the week before, considering that talent difference? Did Bill get outcoached in that one? Or that they lost to the Dolphins at home despite being clearly the better team? Did Flores outcoach Bill? They were favored against the Saints and got whipped; clearly the Saints had a better scheme too.

See, this is my issue: most people have a huge selective bias about Belichick. When the team performs better than expected, it's all coaching. When they perform worse than expected, it’s the players.

Last year, most people had the Patriots marked as a 9-10 win team in the offseason, or .500 at worst. The season went in reverse of what people thought would happen due to Belichick. They would have an advantage with Covid limiting practices because of Belichick (they didn't.). They would get better as the season went on (but they got worse), they would always be competitive (they got blown out a handful of times in embarassing fashion in games that weren't supposed to be blowouts). At the end of the year, they finished 7-9. Yes, they had roster problems, but they had also won 12+ games for 10 straight years. You know what people say at that point? Well, this is really a 2-win team on paper, and it's a great credit to Belichick that even won 7! Come on...that's complete revisionist history. On the day Tom Brady signed with Tampa Bay, a prop bet came out which had the Bucs and Patriots with almost dead even odds for which team would win more games in 2020. This wasn't a carcass left behind for Belichick.

This is the NFL and the Patriots are roughly an average team; it's not like they're 21 point underdogs that are winning because of 5D chess moves.

 

[Jercules]

It is sad to see, thank God Bill couldn't care less.

Belichick has six Lombardis; no other coach has more than one. They're losing tight games to great teams, with a rookie QB who is learning on the job. Stay tuned.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Belichick has six Lombardis; no other coach has more than one.

Huh?

 

[Ian]

Sorry Ian, but I just don't understand this reasoning. Not at all. The team had an over/under of this year of 9.5 wins...they're supposed to have roughly average roster talent or maybe a little better. They were 3.5 point underdogs and were supposed to be in this game. It seems like the bar always moves with Belichick...the team's perceived talent always changes retroactively and sinks to a level below where they perform, to account for Belichick's coaching. What if the team is actually pretty good and they should absolutely be competitive at home against Tampa and Dallas? The Falcons and Eagles played the Bucs tough into the fourth quarter, too...no one is saying their coaches are the great equalizer.

And by this token, isn't Mike McCarthy the best coach in the league, since before the season very few thought Dallas would be 5-1 with their roster? What about the coaching job by Houston's coach the week before, considering that talent difference? Did Bill get outcoached in that one? Or that they lost to the Dolphins at home despite being clearly the better team? Did Flores outcoach Bill? See, this is my issue: most people have a huge selective bias about Belichick. When the team performs better than expected, it's all coaching. When they perform worse than expected, it’s the players.

Last year, most people had the Patriots marked as a 9-10 win team in the offseason, or .500 at worst. The season went in reverse of what people thought would happen due to Belichick. They would have an advantage with Covid limiting practices because of Belichick (they didn't.). They would get better as the season went on (but they got worse), they would always be competitive (they got blown out a handful of times in embarassing fashion in games that weren't supposed to be blowouts). At the end of the year, they finished 7-9. Yes, they had roster problems, but they had also won 12+ games for 10 straight years. You know what people say at that point? Well, this is really a 2-win team on paper, and it's a great credit to Belichick that even won 7! Come on...that's complete revisionist history. On the day Tom Brady signed with Tampa Bay, a prop bet came out which had the Bucs and Patriots with almost dead even odds for which team would win more games in 2020. This wasn't a carcass left behind for Belichick.

This is the NFL and the Patriots are roughly an average team; it's not like they're 21 point underdogs that are winning because of 5D chess moves.

I hear what you're saying, but they've suffered key personnel losses injury-wise, and they started this season with a rookie QB. You can't really factor in offseason expectations given how things have unfolded. There's also the fact that a few plays here or there could have seen us looking at a different record, largely because of the game plans they've put together. Unlike the teams you mentioned, they're also playing tough week in, and week out.

I get people are upset, but my issues - if I have any - have to do with personnel, not his coaching job. They've gone toe-to-toe with the best teams in the league with a group that has been hurt by injuries and whatever other deficiencies people want to debate. But Belichick has had them prepared just like he always has, they've just been - unfortunately - coming up short.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

?

I think he means current coaches...

 

[RobertWeathers]

Homers are awful. But if there is a segment of posters that is worse it’s the ones that were constantly *****ing when the pats were winning. They know who they are

I've never noticed...

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

They're losing tight games to great teams, with a rookie QB who is learning on the job. Stay tuned.

Laughably biased narrative.

They lost close game to two good teams in Dallas and Tampa Bay. At home.

They lost to the Dolphins, a bad team, in a game where they were favored.
They got their asses kicked by the Saints, an average team, in a game they were favored.

They “won a tight game” against the Texans, a team they were favored to whip moreso than TB or DAL was favored to whip them. How is their below-expectations-but-still-won performance against Houston different from above-expectations-but-still-lost?

 

[Ian]

They “won a tight game” against the Texans, a team they were favored to whip moreso than TB or DAL was favored to whip them. How is their below-expectations-but-still-won performance against Houston different from above-expectations-but-still-lost?

You got me there...still can't believe that one went the way it did.

 

[Kontradiction]

You can’t get over 6-7 years of mediocre to bad drafts overnight. I’m optimistic about this year’s draft, though, and think we may have found our QBOTF if we can protect him. But anyone who thought this was going to be a championship season just because of the offseason spending was ignoring the reality that most of our homegrown talent was drafted between 2010 to 2013.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I hear what you're saying, but they've suffered key personnel losses injury-wise, and they started this season with a rookie QB. You can't really factor in offseason expectations given how things have unfolded. There's also the fact that a few plays here or there could have seen us looking at a different record, largely because of the game plans they've put together. Unlike the teams you mentioned, they're also playing tough week in, and week out.

I get people are upset, but my issues - if I have any - have to do with personnel, not his coaching job. They've gone toe-to-toe with the best teams in the league with a group that has been hurt by injuries and whatever other deficiencies people want to debate. But Belichick has had them prepared just like he always has, they've just been - unfortunately - coming up short.

Almost everyone on this forum even acknowledged week 1 against Miami was on the coaches. Bad situational football, mental mistakes, penalties. Lost to an inferior team despite easily winning the yardage battle.

They got hammered in week 3 against the Saints. Out-schemed, outsmarted, just beaten down. They were favored by 3 and lost by 15.

They nearly got beaten by a bottom feeder Texans team. They showed up clearly not in the right mindset and got into a big deficit against maybe the worst team in football.

I’m not saying the coaching is bad. I’m saying, as always, it’s much more neutral than an advantage. The team has played worse than they’re capable of playing roughly half the time and better half the time. I guess it’s impressive they went toe to toe with two good teams, but an average NFL team should be competitive against a great team when playing at home. A close loss is the normal expectation.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

So did the players get worse on the oline or did the pass protection get worse? A lot of the same players are there that have been here.

Combination of losing a great player (thuney), major regression (Wynn) and injuries/covid. Trent Brown part 2 has been a failure. I think they will improve over the season which should give our skill players a boost. OL needs to be the focus next offseason offensively.

 

[Ian]

Almost everyone on this forum even acknowledged week 1 against Miami was on the coaches. Bad situational football, mental mistakes, penalties. Lost to an inferior team despite easily winning the yardage battle.

They got hammered in week 3 against the Saints. Out-schemed, outsmarted, just beaten down. They were favored by 3 and lost by 15.

They nearly got beaten by a bottom feeder Texans team. They showed up clearly not in the right mindset and got into a big deficit against maybe the worst team in football.

I’m not saying the coaching is bad. I’m saying, as always, it’s much more neutral than an advantage. The team has played worse than they’re capable of playing roughly half the time and better half the time. I guess it’s impressive they went toe to toe with two good teams, but an average NFL team should be competitive against a great team when playing at home. A close loss is the normal expectation.

I get what you're trying to say, but average teams with average coaches would have lost by probably 2 touchdowns to Tampa and Dallas. Most fans hope their club won't get beaten badly and will keep it close. But all you need to do is look around the league (coached by mid-tier guys) to see how much that generally isn't the case. Good/great coaches usually change the competitiveness in their team, even if the talent might not be there.

 

[VectorPrime]

It is sad to see, thank God Bill couldn't care less.

Belichick has six Lombardis; no other coach has more than one. They're losing tight games to great teams, with a rookie QB who is learning on the job. Stay tuned.

LMAO Belichick is absolutely obsessed about his own legacy and his place in the football pantheon after he’s retired. It is unbelievable that people truly think he disregards what the media says about him.

 

[SVN]

the media calls him a genius and GOAT and then says he isnt. As if BB said it himself in the first place.

 

[Pape]

You got me there...still can't believe that one went the way it did.

think maybe matt p is back mucking with the defense here... they way the dbacks were so deep so often. Soft up the middle like a typical Patricia defense.

 

[Ian]

think maybe matt p is back mucking with the defense here... they way the dbacks were so deep so often. Soft up the middle like a typical Patricia defense.

Curran said that as well after this one.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Curran said that as well after this one.

I listen/read Curran religiously but he is reaching on that correlation IMO.

 

[TheRainMaker]

think maybe matt p is back mucking with the defense here... they way the dbacks were so deep so often. Soft up the middle like a typical Patricia defense.

Why is Bill allowing this?