Ridley Fumbles - Let's not let facts get in the way

[tombonneau]

You should have thrown in the challenge flag. You would have won the challenge and kept all your timeouts.

Using an apostrophe to pluralize an abbreviation will always be incorrect usage. It is not a beneficiary of language evolution the way one could argue "irregardless" <cringe> could weasel its way into acceptable usage.

 

[IllegalContact]

I couldn't disagree more with that Zen philosophy. When Ridley coughs it up as we're heading in for points, it's nothing at all like a really good punt. Besides the points being lost, it's a big letdown for us and a momentum boost for the bad guys.

A great play by a defender is a great play, but Ridley deserves all the criticism he gets when he exposes the ball and/or drops it on the ground through carelessness. We pay him to hold on to the ball.

yes........it is bad.......just like a punt is bad. neither results in any points for the home team

 

[Ivan]

Glad you brought up 2012. Here are the list of players with 4-5 fumbles broken down by carries/fumbles/fumble%. Ridley is the bottom 3 of %. Fumbles happen. Welcome to reality.

Player Name	 Carries 	Fumbles	%
Fred Jackson	115	5	4.35%
Bryce Brown	115	4	3.48%
Willis McGahee	167	5	2.99%
LeSean McCoy	200	4	2.00%
Chris Johnson	276	5	1.81%
Reggie Bush	227	4	1.76%
Jamaal Charles	285	5	1.75%
Marshawn Lynch	315	5	1.59%
Shonn Greene	276	4	1.45%
Stevan Ridley	290	4	1.38%
Alfred Morris	335	4	1.19%
Adrian Peterson	348	4	1.15%

Good thread, right on the money. Ridley is a really good young player who can be a major contributor against the best teams, players like that are vital to your success. I trust him to carry the load for them at RB, but I'm really glad Vereen is back to supplement him.

 

[1960Pats]

Glad you brought up 2012. Here are the list of players with 4-5 fumbles broken down by carries/fumbles/fumble%. Ridley is the bottom 3 of %. Fumbles happen. Welcome to reality.

Player Name	 Carries 	Fumbles	%
Fred Jackson	115	5	4.35%
Bryce Brown	115	4	3.48%
Willis McGahee	167	5	2.99%
LeSean McCoy	200	4	2.00%
Chris Johnson	276	5	1.81%
Reggie Bush	227	4	1.76%
Jamaal Charles	285	5	1.75%
Marshawn Lynch	315	5	1.59%
Shonn Greene	276	4	1.45%
Stevan Ridley	290	4	1.38%
Alfred Morris	335	4	1.19%
Adrian Peterson	348	4	1.15%

There are fumbles and then there are fumbles.

Next time you run into an older Browns fan ask him what he thinks about Ernest Byner. That was just a fumble.

And look up Leon Lett if you don't already know who he is. He was about to score a TD in the SB and got ready to celebrate and whoops, there it goes. That was just a fumble too.

How about Joe Pisarcik against Herm Edward's Eagles. That's right, just a simple fumble.

 

[IcyPatriot]

I'm glad that Belichick does not think along the lines of this thread.

 

[Ring 6]

I don’t think they’re that big of a problem honestly I think people got spoiled by Green-Ellis never fumbling and began thinking it was the norm but it actually is not players make mistakes, when you look at Ridley’s regular season touches he has 533 combined touches (carries, receptions and kick returns) and he has fumbled 8 times and lost 5. That means he fumbles the football 1.5% of the time and 0.09% of the time that fumble results in a turnover – essentially 98.5% of the time he has the football in his career it is without issue, if baseball players only have to succeed 30% of the time to be considered all-stars I have a hard time faulting a running back who carries 98.5% of the time without issue and causes a turnover less than 1% of the time.

You can't compare hitting .300 to not fumbling 98% of the time like they have the same chance of happening.
What if you doctor had a 98.5% rate of not killing his patients during physicals? Is that great because .300 is a great average in baseball?
Apples compared to oranges rarely provide insight.

Dropping the ball without being hit and having the ball knocked out by minimal contact in the same season is flat out unacceptable no matter what happens on the other 300 touches.

 

[Fencer]

Lynne Truss politely disagrees.

Amazon.com: Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation eBook: Lynne Truss: Kindle Store

Considering that the book seems to cover quite a bit of history of punctuation, I'd say you are incorrect.

Perhaps she believes that further change is undesirable. But she cannot seriously be suggesting that there has not been change in the past.

 

[supafly]

We had 6 in 2012 ... 4 by Ridley

We had 3 in 2011 ... 2 by Brady and 1 by Ridley.

We had 2 in 2010 ...

We had 7 in 2009 ... 3 by Maroney ... he was gone.

It is an insult to compare Ridley's fumbles to the rest of the league.

Belichick operates at a much higher standard than the rest of the league.

While that is certainly true Icy, RB's everywhere tend to fumble at times. I would assume an average rate of around 3 per season myself. Anything above that is getting into an unacceptable zone.

Ridley is by far our best choice to use as a main RB, and without him our backfield takes a big hit. We need to have him running the ball in my opinion, and I'm not sure that drafting or bringing in another RB would show much difference.

I know you don't care for the comparisons around the league, but there was a period of 2 years where Adrian Peterson fumbled a total of SIXTEEN times; 9 one year, and 7 the next.

Of course he also ran for over 1700 yards the first year and then 1300 the second year, averaging 1500 yards throughout the two year period.

I definitely hear what you're saying and agree with it on some level, but sometimes you have to accept a few turnovers per season to get that kind of good production, and I'm not sure that we can get as much production from any other RB at the moment.

 

[Brady6]

You can't compare hitting .300 to not fumbling 98% of the time like they have the same chance of happening.
What if you doctor had a 98.5% rate of not killing his patients during physicals? Is that great because .300 is a great average in baseball?
Apples compared to oranges rarely provide insight.

Dropping the ball without being hit and having the ball knocked out by minimal contact in the same season is flat out unacceptable no matter what happens on the other 300 touches.

I am not so much comparing them as I am pointing out that all athletes are going to make mistakes, human error is part of the game, NBA players have turnovers, MLB players have errors, etc.

 

[dannydyn]

I don’t think he has to go to that degree, I think Ridley just needs to be conscious of the fact he is carrying the football when he is making a cut or redirecting, and he seems to lose concentration when he is making his move.

If you look at that replay, you'll notice the ball got stripped from Ridley. Securing the ball with both hands as you run through the opponents DL, almost guarantees you don't get stripped.

I understand that when you break free and run down the field, it's better to hold the ball with one hand, as it's easier to catch momentum running and generating speed with both hands at your sides (ball in tucked in one hand). But as you expect contact, as in when a DB is closing on you, or as in a power run through a DL, you MUST secure the ball with two hands.

 

[TonyTucker]

As I said before in the other Ridley thread, I don't get why the RBs are the only ones who get punished (remember, Blount got benched after his one fumble earlier this year) while literally every other position on the field has been awful at one point or another. Brady overthrowing people and mishandling snaps, the o-line getting destroyed by the Jets, the receivers dropping passes left and right, the TEs contributing absolutely nothing (at least until Gronk came back).

And that's just the offense. Will Kyle Arrington get benched for that pathetic attempt on a tackle against Ted Ginn? How about Donta Hightower, for not doing ANYTHING well?

He does seem to cough it up all bunched up, he'll go 7 games without a fumble (like earlier this year), and then get two or three in back to back weeks, which makes it look worse. But this whole Ridley thing has gotten a bit ridiculous. As the stats show, 4 fumbles in 300 carries really isn't that much.

 

[Ring 6]

I am not so much comparing them as I am pointing out that all athletes are going to make mistakes, human error is part of the game, NBA players have turnovers, MLB players have errors, etc.

But you were comparing them. You explicitly said if a baseball player is an Allstar by succeeding 30% of the time you have a hard time criticizing fumbling 1% of the time.

If you are changing that fine but my comments were directed at what you actually wrote. Please don't refute by response by saying you didn't mean what you wrote and meant something totally different that what you wrote.

 

[RIpats88]

For me its not so much that ridley fumbles, its that he does it at inopportune times...it always seems he fumbles when we are making a nice drive...if ridley doesnt cough up the ball maybe we win that Carolina game

BUT he's our best running back he regularly breaks tackles and gives us a good 5-6 yards and is always a threat to break it for 20

RBs fumble it happens, but with vereen back now I wonder if thy start to use him more as a featured back like in week 1...he looked every much as good as ridley hitting the hole..and he holds onto the ball better

 

[dhamz]

For me its not so much that ridley fumbles, its that he does it at inopportune times...it always seems he fumbles when we are making a nice drive

I think if you look back over the last few years most of our sacks have happened when we are making a nice drive.

Most of Brady's interceptions? Also usually on a nice drive. Drops? Offensive penalties? Same.

This speaks to the fact that the Patriots have consistently had a really good offense that almost always moves the ball.

The Jets or Jags who have weak offenses that struggle to move the ball probably always seem to make bad plays when they don't seem to have a nice drive going.

 

[BradyManny]

I don't like the sentiment of this thread. Other top RBs fumble so ours should too? This team wins games based on winning the turnover battle, I don't care how other teams do it. A lot of the RBs you cite play on teams that suck, so I'm not sure why we should use them as a model.

It's not the Boston media who makes Ridley's fumbling a big deal. Bill Belichick has been tremendously outspoken about his distaste for putting the ball on the ground. And for good reason. You have to protect the ball.

His problems protecting the ball goes beyond the stats you cite. He's also has fumbled twice in 3 postseason games, once as a receiver.

He's our best pure running back - no one will argue that point. But stop making excuses for him. He has to curb the fumbling. Bill Belichick does not live with RBs who turn it over, you shouldn't either.

 

[dhamz]

Last year the turning point of the Ravens game was Ridley's fumble, we were finally moving the ball on that drive.

It certainly did a lot to lessen the chances of a comeback but that game had already turned with the Ravens already having run off 14 points and taking an 8 point lead before that fumble.

The turning point of that game was when the Pats were up 6 and at the Baltimore 35 driving for a 2 score lead with less than 25 minutes to play. After wasting a first half of field position advantage and allowing the Ravens to stay close, the Pats were still about to take command. Then a dropped 3rd down conversion pass by a WR whose name escapes me this week and a terrible punt by Mesko were followed by a quick 80+ yd Ravens TD drive. Makes me ill just thinking about it.

 

[TonyTucker]

The game changed when Talib went out. Then Average Joe could do what he does best, just throwing up jump balls to Anquan Boldin while Marquise Cole was on him.

 

[Brady6]

But you were comparing them. You explicitly said if a baseball player is an Allstar by succeeding 30% of the time you have a hard time criticizing fumbling 1% of the time.

If you are changing that fine but my comments were directed at what you actually wrote. Please don't refute by response by saying you didn't mean what you wrote and meant something totally different that what you wrote.

I'm not refuting what you said I understand why you wrote what you wrote and it is absolutely valid, all I said was it was more of a vague comparison that I was making in my post and not so much apples to apples. I could have been clearer with that my apologies!

 

[patsinthesnow]

Oh come on! How can anyone even blame that fumble on Ridley? He was KO'ed!

Ridley lowered his helmet and got KO'ed in the process.

I'm sick of the excuses for this fumble. The fact was we were down 21-13 and driviing, Ridley lowers his head, and gets clocked. That was a massive momentum shift that pretty much shut the game down for us.

supafly
Ridley is by far our best choice to use as a main RB, and without him our backfield takes a big hit.

I disagree with this near universal patriots fan sentiment as well. Vereen should be used as a full-time back like Rice/Martin. I don't get why the coaching staff disagrees, he is certainly big enough. Why is Vereen relegated to just pass catching duties?

 

[NSPF]

For some reason we seem to lose the ball every time Ridley fumbles... Fumble recoveries are allegedly fairly random, yet we never seem to recover any of Ridley's fumbles, making them seem worse than average.