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Reiss: Pats mixing in a lot of 4-3

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by pats1, Jun 13, 2006.

  1. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    (Man, looks like I may have been wrong in the "4-3?" thread. I was just taking a look at XXXIX for the Pats' front, noticing/remembering it frequently switched, which Reiss also notes here.)

    http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/

    Last edited: Jun 13, 2006
  2. HEY BRO! WHAT UP?

    HEY BRO! WHAT UP? Banned

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    I told you guys. It may happen. I don't think they will switch to a 4-3, but it will be used quite frequently this season. It will keep their LB's fresh.
  3. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    If you were one of the several people saying that the Patriots would switch to 4-3, you did not "tell us," because that's not what we were arguing. The Patriots are a base 3-4 2-gap defense. They will remain so. NOBODY was arguing that they wouldn't mix in some 4-3 or even MORE 4-3 than they played last year.

    If you're not one of those folks, my apologies for getting all uppity.
  4. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    A great point..no one has ever said they would NOT play 4-3 more..what people were saying is starting off as a 4-3 base. THAT will not change. IF they can use the 4-3 as part of their usual D..at certain points, this may help. Last year game 1, this was done..and very effectively.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2005
  5. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Hello people, hello.
    Read BB's comments. As always he uses this camp as (1) instructional and (2) experimental. He says he wants to see how players perform in alternative positions. It's the depth thing that he's constantly working so that as the long season grinds on he has kept players who are versitile and can adapt to injury losses by playing out of position.
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2006
  6. jimleehunt

    jimleehunt Rookie

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    the pats have used quite bit of 4-3 over the last 5 seasons,though the base has been the 3-4 2gap for the last coupla years. The pats simply do not have the personnel to be a base 4-3,specifically-they dont have many passrushing des,especially with willie gone. sey is a 4-3 dt, not ade-but he can play 4-3. but warren is simply not quick enough to play it for an extended time. he can do it now and then, if the matchups work, to mix things up. green and tbc can also play it, as could vrabel-but the lb corps is thin already, so putting vrabel at de defeats the main purpose of using more 4-3(which is to give the lbs some rest). besides which, bb is a mastermind of the 3-4 2gap-and ,in his hands, it is the most difficult defense for any offense to face. the 4-3 just doesnt give you all the options. the only reason more teams dont use it is because it is very complicated-first of all the HC has to really know it-and the players need intelligence and have to change a lot of what theyve always been taught about playing D. but we will again see a lot of 4-3 this year-but i doubt it will be significantly more than last year. BB knows teams are working overtime on how to solve his D-so he mixes it up and keeps em guessing(keeps US guessing too). to me, its one more of the many fun things about this awesome team-I look forwrd every game to what new wrinkles The Genius will have in store for us. anyone who calls BB "boring" is simply ignorant.
  7. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

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    JIMLEEHUNT raises an excellent point, the Pats are just not built for the 4-3. Even Seymour is not the fastest DE, he is just ungodly powerful and impossible to move. He isn't fast like a Taylor or Freeny. He is perfect in the 3-4. None of the other D-Lineman are true 'speedrushers' with Green and Seymour being the closest to that description, but both more power rushers. We are just set up to be a 3-4. Seymour can do it all, but all the other guys are a little more limited, and were drafted to be in a 3-4.
  8. Tyler Faith

    Tyler Faith Rookie

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    It's just unavoidable for any team now-a-days to not be mixing it up in all line formations and strategies. It's so much harder to prepare for the Pats if we not only mix up the formation but add a lot of stunts, crosses and Linebacker assist. Honestly, I'm wondering why it took this long.
  9. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    #75 Jersey

    I believe the 4-3 used to mostly consist of Willie putting his hand down. Colvin or Vrabel could too.

    In other words, it was a last second switch rather than lining up with 2 DEs on the outside.

    Am I wrong?
  10. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I'm actually a bit disappointed in Reiss.

    The Pats didn't come out in a 4-3 in SB39, they came out with a mix of 2-5 and 1-6. They used MORE linebackers than the Eagles were expecting, not fewer.
  11. 14thDragon

    14thDragon Rookie

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    Well, I do not think we can say they are going to be going to a base 4-3. They are built and trained to be a 3-4 D. But cleary if they can create some mismatches and catch opponents off guard by having some 4-3 packages ready to go. No problems there either. I think the question will be how Sullivan turns out.
  12. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It was a 4-3, they just had 2 LB as DE. The formation was a 4-3, but in terms of players' listed positions it was a 2-5.
  13. Brady'sButtBoy

    Brady'sButtBoy Rookie

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    Look, unless somebody posting here is one of the Patriot coaches then we all have the same credibility, which is none. We all study and then simply speculate, period. If anyone wants to say, I told you so ( which I did!:) ), in reference to the Pats switching to the 4-3, then let them say it - who is anyone here to know differently? We are all just throwing ideas around for fun - remember that word, fun?

    As for the Patriots being drafted to be a 3-4 team, well, seems to make sense since that has been BB's central defensive focus since day one. But how can anyone here say that the Pats can't play a 4-3 effectively because we don't have the personnel? I don't think BB will often make the kind of mistake that he did last fall when he felt that Brown and Beisel inside was the best set up for this team. If he thinks Big Sey and Warren can come off the edge and make plays, does anyone here really know better?
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2006
  14. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Are you sure about that? There's a pretty good breakdown in 3GTG3 which shows one person (Seymour, I believe) on the line, and 6 linebackers lined up behind him. Then they actually have footage of the Eagles' OL coach diagramming it for the O-linemen.

    The Patriots ALWAYS used OLBs as DEs in their 4-3, typically Vrabel and McGinest.
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2006
  15. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'll check the World Broadcast...


    1st and 10

    Eagles Offense: Shotgun 3 WR, 2 right, 1 left - TE down off LT, FB Parry to left of McNabb in shotgun

    Patriots Defense: 4-3, Green at NT, Wilfork playing over RG, Colvin down over TE, McGinest down over RT, Phifer showing blitz over LG, Bruschi and Vrabel show blitz just before snap over RG, both CB pressure coverage.

    Result of Play: McNabb under pressure from Colvin and McGinest, Phifer forces him out of bounds, throws it away


    2nd and 10

    Eagles Offense: 2 WR, Owens in motion to right slot, other wide right, TE down off LT, I-Form backfield

    Patriots Defense: 4-3, Colvin down over TE, Green over LG, Wilfork NT, McGinest down over RT, Vrabel comes up over Owens in motion, Gay follows across the field, Bruschi and Phifer playing back, Samuel press coverage

    Result of Play: McGinest stands up to chip Owens before Gay picks him up, then comes out to force McNabb to toss it over to Owens in the flat, Wilfork got pressure but Colvin and Green were stopped, Vrabel started to come in before the throw.


    3rd and 3

    Eagles Offense: 4 WR, 2 right, 2 left, TE Smith down off LT

    Patriots Defense: 4-2-5 nickel, Vrabel down over LT, Seymour and Green down inside, McGinest down over RT, Bruschi showing blitz over RG, Phifer playing off, Harrison press coverage on right slot WR, Brown press coverage on left slot WR, Gay press coverage on wide left WR, Samuel playing off wide right WR.

    Result of Play: Bruschi comes in free on the blitz, causes the "fumble" which is recovered by the Patriots but later overturned, Eagles punt.


    ....


    1st and 10, Eagles' own 7

    Eagles Offense: 2 WR right, 2 TE, one down off LT, one down off RT, one lone RB.

    Patriots Defense: 4-3, Colvin and McGinest down over TEs, Green and Seymour inside over Gs, Phifer press coverage on TE over Colvin, Vrabel and Bruschi showing blitz over C, Harrison in box, 5 yards behind McGinest and other TE, both CBs press coverage.

    Result of Play: Run right by Westbrook stuffed behind line by penetrating Seymour


    2nd and 13

    Eagles Offense: 3 WR, 2 left, 1 right wing, 1 TE down off RT, one lone RB.

    Patriots Defense: 4-3, Colvin and McGinest down at DE, Seymour and Green inside, Vrabel and Bruschi playing tight but not showing blitz, Phifer press coverage on TE over McGinest, Samuel press coverage on left slot WR, Gay press coverage wide left WR, Wilson 10 yards off right wing WR

    Result of Play: Bruschi comes in on blitz, no penetration, Owens catches the quick slant before Gay, Harrison, and Vrabel run him out of bounds


    3rd and 3

    Missed formations because of replay, but nickel package and Troy were out there. Bruschi stuffed Westbrook to force 4th down. Eagles punt.


    ....


    1st and 10, Eagles' own 25

    Eagles Offense: Shotgun 4 WR, 2 left, 2 right, TE down off RT, lone RB to left of McNabb in shotgun

    Patriots Defense: 4-3, McGinest and Colvin at DE, Warren and Traylor inside, Vrabel showing blitz left wing, Bruschi follows RB in motion (switching to left side of McNabb from right), playing off, Phifer a few yards off right slot WR, Wilson 10 yards behind him, Samuel playing off wide right WR, Gay and Harrison playing off left WRs.

    Result of Play: Vrabel and Phifer come in on blitzes, Phifer clean and forces McNabb to overthrow it deep to a Samuel-covered Pinkston


    2nd and 10

    Missed the formations again, but Troy was once again in there on the nickel, McGinest, Vrabel, Seymour, and I think Warren were all rushers. Phifer and Bruschi played back, making it a 4-2-5 nickel. Screen pass to Westbrook, Troy was in position to make tackle short of 1st but totally missed it, allowing Westbrook to get the 1st down


    1st and 10

    Eagles Offense: 2 WR right, TE down off LT, I-Form backfield

    Patriots Defense: 4-3, Colvin and McGinest at DE, Traylor and Warren inside, Phifer and Gay playing off TE left edge, Bruschi showing blitz over C, Samuel and Harrison playing off WRs right.

    Result of Play: Warren and Traylor shed their blocks to stuff the run from Levens


    2nd and 9

    Eagles Offense: 3 WR, 2 right, 1 Owens left wing, TE down off LT, one lone RB.

    Patriots Defense: 4-3, Colvin and McGinest at DE, Traylor and Warren inside, Phifer press coverage on TE, Gay playing off Owens left wing, Vrabel shows blitz late over RG, Harrison follows right slot WR in motion to C and back, playing slightly off, Samuel playing off wide right WR

    Result of Play: Vrabel blitzes, play action left, McGinest breaks free and hurries McNabb on right side of field, ball thrown away.


    3rd and 9

    Eagles Offense: 4 WR, 2 left, 2 right, one lone RB.

    Patriots Defense: 3-3-5 nickel, Seymour and Green inside, McGinest down off RT, Vrabel showing blitz left wing, Bruschi playing off, Phifer and Brown pressure coverage on slot WRs, Gay and Samuel pressure coverage on wide WRs, Harrison playing 10 yards behind Phifer.

    Result of Play: Bruschi and Vrabel blitz, McNabb gets it off to TE L.J. Smith, Phifer smothers it but a good spot yields a first down


    1st and 10, 50

    Eagles Offense: 2 WR, 1 right in motion from left slot, 1 left, 2 TE, one down off LT, one down off RT, one RB.

    Patriots Defense: 3-4, Colvin and Warren at DE, Traylor at NT. McGinest press coverage on TE right, Samuel follows WR Pinkston in motion, playing off, Gay press coverage on other WR

    Result of Play: Bruschi blitzes, no penetration, screen pass left to Westbrook, Westbrook sheds Vrabel's tackle, Gay and Colvin make the stop shortly thereafter.


    2nd and 7

    Eagles Offense: 2 WR, 1 left, 1 right, 2 TE down off RT, one lone RB.

    Patriots Defense: 3-4, Warren and Green at DE, Traylor at NT, Colvin and Vrabel at OLB, Colvin tight over both TEs, Gay press coverage, Samuel playing off

    Result of Play: Colvin comes in, no penetration, pass fired but Rodney knocks WR around a bit, incomplete


    3rd and 7

    Eagles Offense: Shotgun 4 WR, 2 right (one Westbrook, in motion), 2 left, TE down off RT.

    Patriots Defense: 3-3-5 nickel, Green and Seymour inside, Colvin down over RT, Vrabel and Phifer showing blitz edges, Brown and Gay press coverage on WRs left, Samuel and Harrison playing off WRs right.

    Result of Play: Vrabel comes in, some pentration by Seymour late, McNabb tosses it across the middle to Owens, who runs free until Rodney pushes him out about 20 yards downfield
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2006
  16. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Wow...great quick breakdown. I stand corrected. I know I saw the 1-6 in the first quarter. Maybe the second series.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2005
  17. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I added a few more series, where they eventually switched to the 4-3.
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2005
  18. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

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    Pats1:

    Sweet post!
  19. PatsWickedPissah

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    Stuff like that makes the Forum worth reading. Learn a lot here.
  20. arrellbee

    arrellbee Rookie

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    THANKS for the great detailed descriptions.

    What are you referring to when you say "World Broadcast" ?

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