Reiss: Pats mixing in a lot of 4-3

[pats1]

(Man, looks like I may have been wrong in the "4-3?" thread. I was just taking a look at XXXIX for the Pats' front, noticing/remembering it frequently switched, which Reiss also notes here.)

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/

June 13, 2006
Analysis: Multiple 'D'

FOXBOROUGH -- Summing up the first day of practices from the Patriots’ mandatory offseason minicamp, two words come to mind: “multiple” and “receivers.”

It’s only one day of an offseason minicamp, so jumping to any definitive conclusions is premature. But the potential multiple nature of the Patriots’ defense is intriguing.

As for the receivers, without Deion Branch the team appeared dangerously thin and could use at least one more player there (in addition to Branch). Perhaps one too many times in 7-on-7 drills, quarterbacks had to pull the ball down because they couldn’t make a connection with a receiver.

In terms of the defense, the Patriots mixed in some 4-3 and 3-4 alignments during both practices. One 4-3 combination had four first-round picks -- Richard Seymour and Ty Warren at end, and Johnathan Sullivan and Vince Wilfork at tackle. Intriguing.

Could the Patriots go all 4-3 this year?

It’s doubtful, as the team’s base remains the 3-4. But if the early impression is any indication, the Patriots could be “multiple”, which is what they were at times in the 2003 and 2004 seasons, when they would switch from the 3-4 to the 4-3 from snap to snap, series to series, game to game. This made them one of the harder defenses to prepare for in the NFL.

There was no better example of this than the Super Bowl victory over the Eagles in 2004. For weeks, the Eagles spent the majority of their time preparing for the 3-4, only to have the Patriots play the 4-3 for most of the game. That multiple nature looks like it could be back in play this year after disappearing in 2005.

Asked to pinpoint one area that stood out today, that would be the choice. The Patriots have a lot of options on defense, between the 4-3 and 3-4. It was evident in both practices.

The other area that stood out would be the thin situation at receiver. Even if Branch returns, the team might consider adding another experienced player there.

Posted By: mreiss | Time: 06:04:07 PM

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

I told you guys. It may happen. I don't think they will switch to a 4-3, but it will be used quite frequently this season. It will keep their LB's fresh.

 

[patsox23]

I told you guys. It may happen. I don't think they will switch to a 4-3, but it will be used quite frequently this season. It will keep their LB's fresh.

If you were one of the several people saying that the Patriots would switch to 4-3, you did not "tell us," because that's not what we were arguing. The Patriots are a base 3-4 2-gap defense. They will remain so. NOBODY was arguing that they wouldn't mix in some 4-3 or even MORE 4-3 than they played last year.

If you're not one of those folks, my apologies for getting all uppity.

 

[Pats726]

If you were one of the several people saying that the Patriots would switch to 4-3, you did not "tell us," because that's not what we were arguing. The Patriots are a base 3-4 2-gap defense. They will remain so. NOBODY was arguing that they wouldn't mix in some 4-3 or even MORE 4-3 than they played last year.

If you're not one of those folks, my apologies for getting all uppity.

A great point..no one has ever said they would NOT play 4-3 more..what people were saying is starting off as a 4-3 base. THAT will not change. IF they can use the 4-3 as part of their usual D..at certain points, this may help. Last year game 1, this was done..and very effectively.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Hello people, hello.
Read BB's comments. As always he uses this camp as (1) instructional and (2) experimental. He says he wants to see how players perform in alternative positions. It's the depth thing that he's constantly working so that as the long season grinds on he has kept players who are versitile and can adapt to injury losses by playing out of position.

 

[jimleehunt]

the pats have used quite bit of 4-3 over the last 5 seasons,though the base has been the 3-4 2gap for the last coupla years. The pats simply do not have the personnel to be a base 4-3,specifically-they dont have many passrushing des,especially with willie gone. sey is a 4-3 dt, not ade-but he can play 4-3. but warren is simply not quick enough to play it for an extended time. he can do it now and then, if the matchups work, to mix things up. green and tbc can also play it, as could vrabel-but the lb corps is thin already, so putting vrabel at de defeats the main purpose of using more 4-3(which is to give the lbs some rest). besides which, bb is a mastermind of the 3-4 2gap-and ,in his hands, it is the most difficult defense for any offense to face. the 4-3 just doesnt give you all the options. the only reason more teams dont use it is because it is very complicated-first of all the HC has to really know it-and the players need intelligence and have to change a lot of what theyve always been taught about playing D. but we will again see a lot of 4-3 this year-but i doubt it will be significantly more than last year. BB knows teams are working overtime on how to solve his D-so he mixes it up and keeps em guessing(keeps US guessing too). to me, its one more of the many fun things about this awesome team-I look forwrd every game to what new wrinkles The Genius will have in store for us. anyone who calls BB "boring" is simply ignorant.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

JIMLEEHUNT raises an excellent point, the Pats are just not built for the 4-3. Even Seymour is not the fastest DE, he is just ungodly powerful and impossible to move. He isn't fast like a Taylor or Freeny. He is perfect in the 3-4. None of the other D-Lineman are true 'speedrushers' with Green and Seymour being the closest to that description, but both more power rushers. We are just set up to be a 3-4. Seymour can do it all, but all the other guys are a little more limited, and were drafted to be in a 3-4.

 

[Tyler Faith]

I told you guys. It may happen. I don't think they will switch to a 4-3, but it will be used quite frequently this season. It will keep their LB's fresh.

It's just unavoidable for any team now-a-days to not be mixing it up in all line formations and strategies. It's so much harder to prepare for the Pats if we not only mix up the formation but add a lot of stunts, crosses and Linebacker assist. Honestly, I'm wondering why it took this long.

 

[RayClay]

I believe the 4-3 used to mostly consist of Willie putting his hand down. Colvin or Vrabel could too.

In other words, it was a last second switch rather than lining up with 2 DEs on the outside.

Am I wrong?

 

[dryheat44]

I'm actually a bit disappointed in Reiss.

The Pats didn't come out in a 4-3 in SB39, they came out with a mix of 2-5 and 1-6. They used MORE linebackers than the Eagles were expecting, not fewer.

 

[14thDragon]

Well, I do not think we can say they are going to be going to a base 4-3. They are built and trained to be a 3-4 D. But cleary if they can create some mismatches and catch opponents off guard by having some 4-3 packages ready to go. No problems there either. I think the question will be how Sullivan turns out.

 

[BelichickFan]

I'm actually a bit disappointed in Reiss.

The Pats didn't come out in a 4-3 in SB39, they came out with a mix of 2-5 and 1-6. They used MORE linebackers than the Eagles were expecting, not fewer.

It was a 4-3, they just had 2 LB as DE. The formation was a 4-3, but in terms of players' listed positions it was a 2-5.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

Look, unless somebody posting here is one of the Patriot coaches then we all have the same credibility, which is none. We all study and then simply speculate, period. If anyone wants to say, I told you so ( which I did! ), in reference to the Pats switching to the 4-3, then let them say it - who is anyone here to know differently? We are all just throwing ideas around for fun - remember that word, fun?

As for the Patriots being drafted to be a 3-4 team, well, seems to make sense since that has been BB's central defensive focus since day one. But how can anyone here say that the Pats can't play a 4-3 effectively because we don't have the personnel? I don't think BB will often make the kind of mistake that he did last fall when he felt that Brown and Beisel inside was the best set up for this team. If he thinks Big Sey and Warren can come off the edge and make plays, does anyone here really know better?

 

[dryheat44]

It was a 4-3, they just had 2 LB as DE. The formation was a 4-3, but in terms of players' listed positions it was a 2-5.

Are you sure about that? There's a pretty good breakdown in 3GTG3 which shows one person (Seymour, I believe) on the line, and 6 linebackers lined up behind him. Then they actually have footage of the Eagles' OL coach diagramming it for the O-linemen.

The Patriots ALWAYS used OLBs as DEs in their 4-3, typically Vrabel and McGinest.

 

[pats1]

Are you sure about that? There's a pretty good breakdown in 3GTG3 which shows one person (Seymour, I believe) on the line, and 6 linebackers lined up behind him. Then they actually have footage of the Eagles' OL coach diagramming it for the O-linemen.

The Patriots ALWAYS used OLBs as DEs in their 4-3, typically Vrabel and McGinest.

I'll check the World Broadcast...


1st and 10

Eagles Offense: Shotgun 3 WR, 2 right, 1 left - TE down off LT, FB Parry to left of McNabb in shotgun

Patriots Defense: 4-3, Green at NT, Wilfork playing over RG, Colvin down over TE, McGinest down over RT, Phifer showing blitz over LG, Bruschi and Vrabel show blitz just before snap over RG, both CB pressure coverage.

Result of Play: McNabb under pressure from Colvin and McGinest, Phifer forces him out of bounds, throws it away


2nd and 10

Eagles Offense: 2 WR, Owens in motion to right slot, other wide right, TE down off LT, I-Form backfield

Patriots Defense: 4-3, Colvin down over TE, Green over LG, Wilfork NT, McGinest down over RT, Vrabel comes up over Owens in motion, Gay follows across the field, Bruschi and Phifer playing back, Samuel press coverage

Result of Play: McGinest stands up to chip Owens before Gay picks him up, then comes out to force McNabb to toss it over to Owens in the flat, Wilfork got pressure but Colvin and Green were stopped, Vrabel started to come in before the throw.


3rd and 3

Eagles Offense: 4 WR, 2 right, 2 left, TE Smith down off LT

Patriots Defense: 4-2-5 nickel, Vrabel down over LT, Seymour and Green down inside, McGinest down over RT, Bruschi showing blitz over RG, Phifer playing off, Harrison press coverage on right slot WR, Brown press coverage on left slot WR, Gay press coverage on wide left WR, Samuel playing off wide right WR.

Result of Play: Bruschi comes in free on the blitz, causes the "fumble" which is recovered by the Patriots but later overturned, Eagles punt.


....


1st and 10, Eagles' own 7

Eagles Offense: 2 WR right, 2 TE, one down off LT, one down off RT, one lone RB.

Patriots Defense: 4-3, Colvin and McGinest down over TEs, Green and Seymour inside over Gs, Phifer press coverage on TE over Colvin, Vrabel and Bruschi showing blitz over C, Harrison in box, 5 yards behind McGinest and other TE, both CBs press coverage.

Result of Play: Run right by Westbrook stuffed behind line by penetrating Seymour


2nd and 13

Eagles Offense: 3 WR, 2 left, 1 right wing, 1 TE down off RT, one lone RB.

Patriots Defense: 4-3, Colvin and McGinest down at DE, Seymour and Green inside, Vrabel and Bruschi playing tight but not showing blitz, Phifer press coverage on TE over McGinest, Samuel press coverage on left slot WR, Gay press coverage wide left WR, Wilson 10 yards off right wing WR

Result of Play: Bruschi comes in on blitz, no penetration, Owens catches the quick slant before Gay, Harrison, and Vrabel run him out of bounds


3rd and 3

Missed formations because of replay, but nickel package and Troy were out there. Bruschi stuffed Westbrook to force 4th down. Eagles punt.


....


1st and 10, Eagles' own 25

Eagles Offense: Shotgun 4 WR, 2 left, 2 right, TE down off RT, lone RB to left of McNabb in shotgun

Patriots Defense: 4-3, McGinest and Colvin at DE, Warren and Traylor inside, Vrabel showing blitz left wing, Bruschi follows RB in motion (switching to left side of McNabb from right), playing off, Phifer a few yards off right slot WR, Wilson 10 yards behind him, Samuel playing off wide right WR, Gay and Harrison playing off left WRs.

Result of Play: Vrabel and Phifer come in on blitzes, Phifer clean and forces McNabb to overthrow it deep to a Samuel-covered Pinkston


2nd and 10

Missed the formations again, but Troy was once again in there on the nickel, McGinest, Vrabel, Seymour, and I think Warren were all rushers. Phifer and Bruschi played back, making it a 4-2-5 nickel. Screen pass to Westbrook, Troy was in position to make tackle short of 1st but totally missed it, allowing Westbrook to get the 1st down


1st and 10

Eagles Offense: 2 WR right, TE down off LT, I-Form backfield

Patriots Defense: 4-3, Colvin and McGinest at DE, Traylor and Warren inside, Phifer and Gay playing off TE left edge, Bruschi showing blitz over C, Samuel and Harrison playing off WRs right.

Result of Play: Warren and Traylor shed their blocks to stuff the run from Levens


2nd and 9

Eagles Offense: 3 WR, 2 right, 1 Owens left wing, TE down off LT, one lone RB.

Patriots Defense: 4-3, Colvin and McGinest at DE, Traylor and Warren inside, Phifer press coverage on TE, Gay playing off Owens left wing, Vrabel shows blitz late over RG, Harrison follows right slot WR in motion to C and back, playing slightly off, Samuel playing off wide right WR

Result of Play: Vrabel blitzes, play action left, McGinest breaks free and hurries McNabb on right side of field, ball thrown away.


3rd and 9

Eagles Offense: 4 WR, 2 left, 2 right, one lone RB.

Patriots Defense: 3-3-5 nickel, Seymour and Green inside, McGinest down off RT, Vrabel showing blitz left wing, Bruschi playing off, Phifer and Brown pressure coverage on slot WRs, Gay and Samuel pressure coverage on wide WRs, Harrison playing 10 yards behind Phifer.

Result of Play: Bruschi and Vrabel blitz, McNabb gets it off to TE L.J. Smith, Phifer smothers it but a good spot yields a first down


1st and 10, 50

Eagles Offense: 2 WR, 1 right in motion from left slot, 1 left, 2 TE, one down off LT, one down off RT, one RB.

Patriots Defense: 3-4, Colvin and Warren at DE, Traylor at NT. McGinest press coverage on TE right, Samuel follows WR Pinkston in motion, playing off, Gay press coverage on other WR

Result of Play: Bruschi blitzes, no penetration, screen pass left to Westbrook, Westbrook sheds Vrabel's tackle, Gay and Colvin make the stop shortly thereafter.


2nd and 7

Eagles Offense: 2 WR, 1 left, 1 right, 2 TE down off RT, one lone RB.

Patriots Defense: 3-4, Warren and Green at DE, Traylor at NT, Colvin and Vrabel at OLB, Colvin tight over both TEs, Gay press coverage, Samuel playing off

Result of Play: Colvin comes in, no penetration, pass fired but Rodney knocks WR around a bit, incomplete


3rd and 7

Eagles Offense: Shotgun 4 WR, 2 right (one Westbrook, in motion), 2 left, TE down off RT.

Patriots Defense: 3-3-5 nickel, Green and Seymour inside, Colvin down over RT, Vrabel and Phifer showing blitz edges, Brown and Gay press coverage on WRs left, Samuel and Harrison playing off WRs right.

Result of Play: Vrabel comes in, some pentration by Seymour late, McNabb tosses it across the middle to Owens, who runs free until Rodney pushes him out about 20 yards downfield

 

[dryheat44]

Wow...great quick breakdown. I stand corrected. I know I saw the 1-6 in the first quarter. Maybe the second series.

Thanks.

 

[pats1]

Wow...great quick breakdown. I stand corrected. I know I saw the 1-6 in the first quarter. Maybe the second series.

Thanks.

I added a few more series, where they eventually switched to the 4-3.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Pats1:

Sweet post!

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Stuff like that makes the Forum worth reading. Learn a lot here.

 

[arrellbee]

I'll check the World Broadcast...

THANKS for the great detailed descriptions.

What are you referring to when you say "World Broadcast" ?