Reiss morning notes: Some 4-3 work, Wilson at S and CB

[pats1]

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/

August 08, 2006
Practice notes

A few quick practice notes before Bill Belichick's press conference:

* Quite a bit of four-man defensive line work in this session, with Mike Wright and Ty Warren at end, and Richard Seymour and Vince Wilfork at tackle.

* Quarterback Matt Cassel took his second lap in as many days after fumbling the ball after receiving the snap from center. Rookie Dan Stevenson also took a lap.

* Eugene Wilson worked at both cornerback and safety.

* Johnathan Sullivan continued to work at nose tackle, with the second unit.

More to come in a bit.

Posted By: mreiss | Time: 11:20:43 AM

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Mike Wright's name is popping up quite often.

 

[mcbee]

They might do a 4-3 defense with Colvin, Bruschi and Vrabel as LB.

It would put alot of pressure on the safeties and CBs to be able to cover the perimeter.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Some notes from the Projo Blog on this morning.

http://www.beloblog.com/ProJo_Blogs/PatsBlog/

 

[JackBauer]

They might do a 4-3 defense with Colvin, Bruschi and Vrabel as LB.

It would put alot of pressure on the safeties and CBs to be able to cover the perimeter.

I don't think they've got the LBs to do a 4-3. I think, as usual, we will see a base 3-4 with different looks, including the 4-3, mixed in.

 

[mcbee]

I think they'll do it anyway, with the people they have. Very hard to run on them.

 

[JackBauer]

I think they'll do it anyway, with the people they have. Very hard to run on them.

I'll say it again: the LBs they have aren't really suited for a 4-3. I think it'd be easier to run on the Pats 4-3 than it would be on the 3-4.

Plus Wilfork has fattened up to play 3-4 NT, and now you'd want to move him back to 4-3 DT?

I don't think it's going to happen, unless there's another rash of injuries.

 

[peppered johnson]

wilfork has fattened up? hes always been a beast.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

wilfork has fattened up? hes always been a beast.

That screen name has got to sting!

I'll align my vote with JackBauer - base 3-4. The interesting news was noted by Uncle Bob's nephew, Mike Wright is our #5 DL on the depth chart. I'm looking forward to seeing how he does playing in Green's place Friday, or if they'll use Klecko or Thomas as the third down specialist.

I'm all for a fast week.

 

[JackBauer]

wilfork has fattened up? hes always been a beast.

Well, I go to UM and got to see him on the field as a senior. Between now and when he entered the league is practically night and day. The guy is MUCH bigger now than when he was a rookie.

 

[Ichiro]

I'll say it again: the LBs they have aren't really suited for a 4-3. I think it'd be easier to run on the Pats 4-3 than it would be on the 3-4.

Plus Wilfork has fattened up to play 3-4 NT, and now you'd want to move him back to 4-3 DT?

I don't think it's going to happen, unless there's another rash of injuries.

I think now more than ever our linebackers are suited for the 4-3. The linebackers we have are smaller( now that T. Johnson and McGinest are gone, two mammoth LBs) Colvin played the 4-3 with the Bears and Bruschi is more of a movement linebacker. Vrabel is a prototypical 3-4 LB, but Beisel, TBC and the rest of the backups are probably more suited (body size-wise) to the 4-3.

Another problem is the 3-4 has is pass rush from the interior DL. We struggled to get a push in the QB's face unless we blitzed, as the NT is often double teamed. Now that Wilfork is playing a yard or so off the ball this will be more of a problem. Wilfork was a wonderful one gap player at Miami and would be fine in the 4-3. A good 4-3 system to emulate would be the Vikings where there is a "under tackle" who is Kevin Williams and more of a nose position manned by Pat Williams. Seymour and Wilfork fit these skill sets perfectly.
Remember the Oakland and Pitt game from last year? Our 4-3 was penetrating like crazy.

 

[Remix 6]

i wouldnt like the idea of 4-3. then..we dont have a good pass rushing DE that has a lot of speed

 

[Ichiro]

i wouldnt like the idea of 4-3. then..we dont have a good pass rushing DE that has a lot of speed

I think Vrabel (maybe even TBC) could slide over and play weak side end on passing downs with Chad Brown moving in and playing more of a coverage LB. A lot of 4-3 teams have small ends (i.e. Colts).
On running downs Seymour and Wilfork would give us enough push where we wouldn't really need to worried about a lot of pressure from the ends (although I think Jarvis will give enough)

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Mike Wright's name is popping up quite often.

That will happen a lot with 4-3 DE starter Jarvis Green and perrenial backup Marquise Hill both out.

 

[JackBauer]

I think now more than ever our linebackers are suited for the 4-3. The linebackers we have are smaller( now that T. Johnson and McGinest are gone, two mammoth LBs) Colvin played the 4-3 with the Bears and Bruschi is more of a movement linebacker. Vrabel is a prototypical 3-4 LB, but Beisel, TBC and the rest of the backups are probably more suited (body size-wise) to the 4-3.

What, exactly, do you consider "smaller"? Bruschi is listed a 247. Colvin is listed at 250. Vrabel is 261. I don't think Bruschi is well-suited to play MLB, at least not at this point in his career. Vrabel is not well suited to play 4-3 OLB. Colvin would probably suffice.

Another problem is the 3-4 has is pass rush from the interior DL. We struggled to get a push in the QB's face unless we blitzed, as the NT is often double teamed. Now that Wilfork is playing a yard or so off the ball this will be more of a problem.

I don't know what you're talking about, here. In the second half of the year last season, the DL got a lot of pressure, mainly because (it seems) Wilfork adjusted his hands and technique, IIRC.

Wilfork was a wonderful one gap player at Miami and would be fine in the 4-3..

That would be true. If Wilfork were still a rookie.

A good 4-3 system to emulate would be the Vikings where there is a "under tackle" who is Kevin Williams and more of a nose position manned by Pat Williams. Seymour and Wilfork fit these skill sets perfectly

It's possible that this is true, but:

a) Do you want to play Seymour at DT instead of DE?

b) Still doesn't change the fact that our LBs aren't suited to the 4-3.

 

[Remix 6]

A. Yes he would be a DT..hes a 3-4 DE, 4-3 DT because his size. 3-4 DEs are bigger and not as fast
B. It might, because 3 of our LBs were 4-3 DE before..i mean they could stay there no problem but idk

 

[Ichiro]

What, exactly, do you consider "smaller"? Bruschi is listed a 247. Colvin is listed at 250. Vrabel is 261. I don't think Bruschi is well-suited to play MLB, at least not at this point in his career. Vrabel is not well suited to play 4-3 OLB. Colvin would probably suffice.



I don't know what you're talking about, here. In the second half of the year last season, the DL got a lot of pressure, mainly because (it seems) Wilfork adjusted his hands and technique, IIRC.



That would be true. If Wilfork were still a rookie.



It's possible that this is true, but:

a) Do you want to play Seymour at DT instead of DE?

b) Still doesn't change the fact that our LBs aren't suited to the 4-3. [/
QUOTE]

The linebackers we have now "play smaller" than McGinest and Johnson. Expect for Vrabel, Bruschi and Colvin are better suited to move around blockers than really take them on.

I felt some of the pressure we got last year towards the second half was because of the OL's we played. Tampa Bay, Buffalo, NY Jets really lack a lot of quality at that position.
Also, Wilfork playing off the ball allowed him to two gap better by having a little more space to see what the centers and guards were going to do. Earlier in the year, when he was playing closer to the ball, he would revert back to picking a gap (showing he still has one gap tendencies from the U), thus allowing a guard or center to just ride him into that gap, creating running lanes.

And yes, yes, yes, I would want Seymour to be a DT. He would be a DOMINANT penetrating DT, often facing one on one blocking by less athletic guards.

 

[JackBauer]

The linebackers we have now "play smaller" than McGinest and Johnson. Expect for Vrabel, Bruschi and Colvin are better suited to move around blockers than really take them on.

I think Bruschi is perfect for 3-4 ILB. I don't think he's got the speed to play MLB.

I don't think Vrabel has the speed to play OLB.

Look at the best 4-3 cores in the league. Look at Denver, in particular. Wilson, Gold, and Williams are faster than any LB we have, and it's probably not even close.

I don't think you switch Wilfork, as he's about to enter his prime as a 3-4 DT, back to a 4-3.

 

[Ichiro]

I think Bruschi is perfect for 3-4 ILB. I don't think he's got the speed to play MLB.

I don't think Vrabel has the speed to play OLB.

Look at the best 4-3 cores in the league. Look at Denver, in particular. Wilson, Gold, and Williams are faster than any LB we have, and it's probably not even close.

I don't think you switch Wilfork, as he's about to enter his prime as a 3-4 DT, back to a 4-3.

I agree with you about Vrabel and Denver. The speed Denver has at LB is amazing.
I just think that the majority of LB's in college are of that small variety that Denver has. The big LB's are hard to find and its a crapshoot to convert college DE's into ILB. I think we need to adjust to this football trend.

Didn't Bruschi play MLB (switching with T.Johnson) during the first two years of BB? And I'm pretty sure we played a lot of 4-3 then. I think Bruschi would be effective in either system much like Seymour.

Wilfork is going to be a very good NT, but for a man for his size, he has great penetration skills and would be effective at DT.

I got to go back to Seymour as a DT. I can't imagine what he would be if given the free reign to wreck havoc in the offensive backfield in a Tampa cover-2 system.

 

[AzPatsFan]

If they palyed some 4-3 with colvin Vrabel and Bruschi as the LBs, that would be my lineup. Colvin Will or weakside LB, Vrabel Mike MLB and Bruschi Sam or strongside OLB.

Remember Vrabes has the playcalling ability too, and Bruschi was an OLB under Pete Carroll. Will? He has more agility than Vrabel and can set the edge on the strongside just as well as he did as a Pete Carroll Will backer.