Reiss: Mel Mitchell likely out for season with biceps injury

[pats1]

2005...we thought we had superb backsups. I mean just look at it, Samuel...Gay, Poole, Starks and Chad Scott to choose from plus the rookie Hobbs. We draft a safety in the fourth round. Our secondary will be amazing! Poole injured, Scott injured, Gay injured, Starks injured. Then we bring in Hank Poteat. Rodney goes down, so does Guss Scott. Did anyone expect that?

Your just about the most negative poster I have seen on this sight.

Agreed. The Pats had the depth to start off with, but when their starters got hurt, their depth got injured too. Enter Michael Stone, Hank Poteat, and Artrell Hawkins.

Guss Scott got hurt. Then Sanders got hurt. Then Poole got hurt. Then Rodney got hurt. Then Gay got hurt. Then Starks got hurt. Then Chad Scott got hurt.

When the merry-go-round was finally over, only Hobbs, Samuel, Poteat, Wilson, Hawkins, and Stone were left.

The depth was there, but the sheer amount of injuries (and this is only the secondary) would have completely derailed most other teams. The fact that the Pats stuck in it until almost the AFC Championship is something to be noticed.

 

[Willie55]

Most of these injuries, and the people sitting, you see right now are precautionary. If the Pats were playing a real game this week you would probably see the majority of the players out there, but why aggravate or make worse any injury in early August. Richard Seymour basically said that the other day.

As far as depth goes, who knows how the replacements will do. We know nothing about Mincey, Woods, and how Sanders and Hobbs are going to transition into their second season, just like a 6th round pick named Brady from not too long ago had people complaining he was the back-up to Bledsoe had the scribes in Boston thinking the Pats were not going to win the Super Bowl anytime soon.

Because of what this team has been turned into over the past six years, because of what Beioli has done, I will give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. To that I say: "In Bill we trust" and have another drink of kool-aid.

 

[pats1]

A response that side steps the issue. Talk about the depth TODAY at
ILB, WR and even the Dline.
if they had to play today tell me who your starters who are your 2nd string
players. Write it out ... show me this wonderful depth you are speaking of.
AS of Today. ( if you use injured players put an '*' next to his name. )

What kind of injured players do you speak of? The only injured players where there's any legit question of their regular season status would be Mitchell, Rodney, Gay, Pass, and Kaczur. Koppen is out there snapping in practice with Brady, so you'd have to imagine he's only days away from returning. There's no solid info on Bruschi yet.

ILB:

Bruschi
Beisel
(Vrabel)
(C. Brown)
Gardner
Izzo
Alexander
Davis
Roach
Mays

OLB:

Vrabel
Colvin
C. Brown
Banta-Cain
Mincey
Woods

As you can see here, versatility (go ask BB about that) is the key. Having a guy like Vrabel who can play both inside and outside is a huge advantage. C. Brown had to start at ILB last year, we know how that turned out, but as the nickel ILB in the playoffs performed well. Now, he's down to basically the #4 or 5 ILB - a situation that probably won't even occur.

It's also possible he'll still see time at ILB in the nickel.

Outside they're even in better shape.

Izzo, Davis, Gardner, Alexander, T.B.C., and Mincey will all bring something to the table on special teams.

You may come back and say if so-and-so plus so-and-so goes down then they'll only have so-and-so left, who is an unproven rookie. Well, unless you want to have a bunch of proven 35-year olds (T.J., Phifer, etc.) as all of your depth, and don't supplement it with younger guys like TBC, Alexander, Beisel, and Mincey, then you're turning a cold shoulder to the future and thus will be in trouble.

WR:

Branch
Caldwell
Brown
Jackson
Childress

With Andrews, Jackson, or Maroney likely taking over return duties, there's no reason to carry the 6th WR as the Pats have done in the past, which has always been Bethel as a KR/PR. Childress could get he boot if the Pats want to add one more vet to the mix later on in camp, or make a trade like they did last year for Andre' Davis.

DL:

Seymour* (we all saw him in the on-field walkthrough, we all heard him say they wanted to be cautious with his quad, but if the season started today he would play, so there's really no reason to even put the asterisk.)
Wilfork
Warren
Green* (injury doesn't appear serious)
Hill* (no word on his injury)
Wright
L.K. Smith
Sullivan
Klecko
Thomas

This position has been traditionally one of the deepest on the Pats, and it has remained unchanged for a few years now. With the 3-4 scheme, the Pats won't be carrying any more than 6 or 7 DLs. The starters are so good that Green and Hill, who would likely start in most other systems, don't see all that much playing time. Green sees his as a situational rusher, while Hill is part of the goalline defense. Wright brings versatility to play either outside or inside, essentially that 7th man on the line. Klecko, Sullivan, and Smith battle it out for that backup NT job. Smith looks to be a favorite, and as a hand-picked draft pick of Beioli, you would think they have confidence in him to do just that.

I can't even see where you have legit concerns of depth on the defensive line.

 

[pats1]

Most of these injuries, and the people sitting, you see right now are precautionary. If the Pats were playing a real game this week you would probably see the majority of the players out there, but why aggravate or make worse any injury in early August. Richard Seymour basically said that the other day.

As far as depth goes, who knows how the replacements will do. We know nothing about Mincey, Woods, and how Sanders and Hobbs are going to transition into their second season, just like a 6th round pick named Brady from not too long ago had people complaining he was the back-up to Bledsoe had the scribes in Boston thinking the Pats were not going to win the Super Bowl anytime soon.

Because of what this team has been turned into over the past six years, because of what Beioli has done, I will give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. To that I say: "In Bill we trust" and have another drink of kool-aid.

Hear, hear!

:eat3:

 

[JR4]

What kind of injured players do you speak of? The only injured players where there's any legit question of their regular season status would be Mitchell, Rodney, Gay, Pass, and Kaczur. Koppen is out there snapping in practice with Brady, so you'd have to imagine he's only days away from returning. There's no solid info on Bruschi yet.

ILB:

Bruschi
Beisel
(Vrabel)
(C. Brown)
Gardner
Izzo
Alexander
Davis
Roach
Mays

OLB:

Vrabel
Colvin
C. Brown
Banta-Cain
Mincey
Woods

As you can see here, versatility (go ask BB about that) is the key. Having a guy like Vrabel who can play both inside and outside is a huge advantage. C. Brown had to start at ILB last year, we know how that turned out, but as the nickel ILB in the playoffs performed well. Now, he's down to basically the #4 or 5 ILB - a situation that probably won't even occur.

It's also possible he'll still see time at ILB in the nickel.

Outside they're even in better shape.

Izzo, Davis, Gardner, Alexander, T.B.C., and Mincey will all bring something to the table on special teams.

You may come back and say if so-and-so plus so-and-so goes down then they'll only have so-and-so left, who is an unproven rookie. Well, unless you want to have a bunch of proven 35-year olds (T.J., Phifer, etc.) as all of your depth, and don't supplement it with younger guys like TBC, Alexander, Beisel, and Mincey, then you're turning a cold shoulder to the future and thus will be in trouble.

WR:

Branch
Caldwell
Brown
Jackson
Childress

With Andrews, Jackson, or Maroney likely taking over return duties, there's no reason to carry the 6th WR as the Pats have done in the past, which has always been Bethel as a KR/PR. Childress could get he boot if the Pats want to add one more vet to the mix later on in camp, or make a trade like they did last year for Andre' Davis.

DL:

Seymour* (we all saw him in the on-field walkthrough, we all heard him say they wanted to be cautious with his quad, but if the season started today he would play, so there's really no reason to even put the asterisk.)
Wilfork
Warren
Green* (injury doesn't appear serious)
Hill* (no word on his injury)
Wright
L.K. Smith
Sullivan
Klecko
Thomas

This position has been traditionally one of the deepest on the Pats, and it has remained unchanged for a few years now. With the 3-4 scheme, the Pats won't be carrying any more than 6 or 7 DLs. The starters are so good that Green and Hill, who would likely start in most other systems, don't see all that much playing time. Green sees his as a situational rusher, while Hill is part of the goalline defense. Wright brings versatility to play either outside or inside, essentially that 7th man on the line. Klecko, Sullivan, and Smith battle it out for that backup NT job. Smith looks to be a favorite, and as a hand-picked draft pick of Beioli, you would think they have confidence in him to do just that.

I can't even see where you have legit concerns of depth on the defensive line.

You forgot some of '*' and question marks.
Deion is a hold out and reports say he is willing to go until 10th week
You can't use Vrabel at OLB and ILB as a starter.

So let me try to reconstruct your line up in the way I asked
starters and second string

WR:
Starters: Branch* and Caldwell
Backups: Brown and Jackson*(and significantly behind)


ILB:
Starters: Beisel* and Bruschi*(hopeful his injury isn't a broken bone)
Backups: Gardner and Izzo/Davis
( if doesn't cause you concern nothiong will )

OLB:
Starters: Colvin and Vrabel
Backups: Brown and TBC
(OLB isn't bad ... didn't think it was)

Dline:
Starters: Seymour Wilfork Warren
Backups: Green* Seymour Klecko/Hill*

if Green and Hill get healthy Dline should be solid.
Not counting on Sullivan.
Wilfork's replacement may be Seymour if not there isn't quality backup for Wilfork.

The major concerns for me are WR and ILB.

If PATs had to start today and indicated injured players do not play then
you got.

WR:
Starters: Brown and Caldwell
Backups: Childress and Jackson*(and significantly behind)
( to me that does not inspire confidence )

ILB:
Starters: Gardner and Izzo
Backups: Alexander and Davis
(visions of last season with C.Brown and Beisel as ILBs ... maybe worst)

Again Pats must be very good from the getgo this season because
they play all their division rivals in the first 5 weeks.

 

[pats1]

You forgot some of '*' and question marks.
Deion is a hold out and reports say he is willing to go until 10th week
You can't use Vrabel at OLB and ILB as a starter.

So let me try to reconstruct your line up in the way I asked
starters and second string

WR:
Starters: Branch* and Caldwell
Backups: Brown and Jackson*(and significantly behind)


ILB:
Starters: Beisel* and Bruschi*(hopeful his injury isn't a broken bone)
Backups: Gardner and Izzo/Davis
( if doesn't cause you concern nothiong will )

OLB:
Starters: Colvin and Vrabel
Backups: Brown and TBC
(OLB isn't bad ... didn't think it was)

Dline:
Starters: Seymour Wilfork Warren
Backups: Green* Seymour Klecko/Hill*

if Green and Hill get healthy Dline should be solid.
Not counting on Sullivan.
Wilfork's replacement may be Seymour if not there isn't quality backup for Wilfork.

Have you been living under a rock for the last 4 years?

The Pats are all about versatility. I expected you to realize that.

If the #1 and #2 SS went down, for example, do you think the Pats would bring in their #2 FS (in this case Tebucky) or their #3 SS?

The answer would most likely be their #2 FS.

That's where the whole Vrabel/Brown thing comes in. It's way too simple-minded to list the Pats' depth chart, classify each player under one position, and then whine when one position doesn't appear to have enough depth.

Again, the answer is right next door to ILB - OLB. Of course Vrabe wouldn't be able to start at both OLB and ILB at the same time, but if Beisel or Bruschi goes down, Vrabel would be moved inside BEFORE Gardner sees time as a starter. Chad Brown or TBC would start at OLB. THEN, if another ILB were to go down, chances are TBC would start at OLB and Brown at ILB STILL BEFORE Gardner comes in. If ANOTHER ILB was to go down, THEN you would see Gardner come in. And if ANOTHER ILB went down, Beioli would sign a street free agent to see time before Izzo would.

Quite obviously, the chances of the Pats even getting to that third, nevermind fourth or fifth, situation are slim. You seem to take offense to the fact that the Pats don't have a Pro-Bowler for each situation instead of Gardner or Brown. It's a 53-man roster, and each player has a role. Most likely, Izzo or Davis are going to do a better job of filling their role as backup ILBs - SPECIAL TEAMS - better than a player that would replace them on a roster just to satisfy your strange thirst for Pro-Bowl depth.


Also, Earth to JR4:

THE BILLS AND JETS SUCK.

If you believe Seymour sitting out with a sore quad or the Pats not having f'in Lawrence Taylor backing up at ILB means they will struggle with division opponents early on, you're a lost cause.

The Pats are EASILY head, shoulders, arms, legs, and anything else above the Bills and the Jets, and despite the delusions of Dolphins fans, a superior team through and through to the misfit mammals of the sea.

 

[BelichickFan]

Why are some people saying our DL depth is weak ? We lost no-one and brought in Sullivan and Smith to compete for backup improvments. I don't get it.

Regarding Mitchell, it's a shame but it happens and this isn't exactly Brady or Seymour.

 

[JR4]

Have you been living under a rock for the last 4 years?

The Pats are all about versatility. I expected you to realize that.

If the #1 and #2 SS went down, for example, do you think the Pats would bring in their #2 FS (in this case Tebucky) or their #3 SS?

The answer would most likely be their #2 FS.

That's where the whole Vrabel/Brown thing comes in. It's way too simple-minded to list the Pats' depth chart, classify each player under one position, and then whine when one position doesn't appear to have enough depth.

Again, the answer is right next door to ILB - OLB. Of course Vrabe wouldn't be able to start at both OLB and ILB at the same time, but if Beisel or Bruschi goes down, Vrabel would be moved inside BEFORE Gardner sees time as a starter. Chad Brown or TBC would start at OLB. THEN, if another ILB were to go down, chances are TBC would start at OLB and Brown at ILB STILL BEFORE Gardner comes in. If ANOTHER ILB was to go down, THEN you would see Gardner come in. And if ANOTHER ILB went down, Beioli would sign a street free agent to see time before Izzo would.

Quite obviously, the chances of the Pats even getting to that third, nevermind fourth or fifth, situation are slim. You seem to take offense to the fact that the Pats don't have a Pro-Bowler for each situation instead of Gardner or Brown. It's a 53-man roster, and each player has a role. Most likely, Izzo or Davis are going to do a better job of filling their role as backup ILBs - SPECIAL TEAMS - better than a player that would replace them on a roster just to satisfy your strange thirst for Pro-Bowl depth.


Also, Earth to JR4:

THE BILLS AND JETS SUCK.

If you believe Seymour sitting out with a sore quad or the Pats not having f'in Lawrence Taylor backing up at ILB means they will struggle with division opponents early on, you're a lost cause.

The Pats are EASILY head, shoulders, arms, legs, and anything else above the Bills and the Jets, and despite the delusions of Dolphins fans, a superior team through and through to the misfit mammals of the sea.

There is really no reason to insult or be degrading. Just state your opinions
without personal assults.

As for moving Vrable inside and moving guys around that is not the point.
The depth is a concern. Sliding Vrable over to cover ILB is not without
consquences.
If you did that you then have an older player who was scheduled for rotation
to assume a much more demanding role. He may hold up or his age may
become a factor. TBC as of late has been having problems. But also consider
that without Beisel in there how effective will Vrable be if he takes all inside
snaps next to Gardner. How will they work together? Just the other week
Bruschi talked about the time he and Beisel have been able to work togehter
and how they are developing together.
The point is that it is not as straight forward as it may appear.

 

[pats1]

There is really no reason to insult or be degrading. Just state your opinions
without personal assults.

As for moving Vrable inside and moving guys around that is not the point.
The depth is a concern. Sliding Vrable over to cover ILB is not without
consquences.
If you did that you then have an older player who was scheduled for rotation
to assume a much more demanding role. He may hold up or his age may
become a factor. TBC as of late has been having problems. But also consider
that without Beisel in there how effective will Vrable be if he takes all inside
snaps next to Gardner. How will they work together? Just the other week
Bruschi talked about the time he and Beisel have been able to work togehter
and how they are developing together.
The point is that it is not as straight forward as it may appear.

First off, you're quibbling here. Secondly, you're contradicting yourself.

Any time one player replaces another there's going to be changes for both his battery mates and himself. Vrabel and Chad Brown are in the best situation to do this, as they've been on the team and the players around them are confortable playing with them.

"It's not as straight forward as it may appear."

Thank you! You're making my point! Bringing in another ILB (Donnie Edwards has been tossed arond) for depth wouldn't be as straight-forward as it appears. As you just said, there would be issues with chemistry and him learning the system. In that case, it might even be better to put Chad Brown in there, because he (or Vrabel) has this comfort level you just so stressed!

The bottom-line is, you don't understand the Patriots' strive for versatility. Depth IS versatility. Versatility IS depth. That has been the foundation of the Patriots, and I'm stunned you still haven't realized it.

 

[captain stone]

You're unbelieveable.

That's all.

Why is he unbelievable?
Does the FO understand that what cost $ x last year now costs $ x + 20% x ?

 

[pats1]

Why is he unbelievable?
Does the FO understand that what cost $ x last year now costs $ x + 20% x ?

The front office understands more about football, the salary cap, and organizational management in one day than anyone on this board will know in their lifetime.

 

[pats-blue]

Maybe you should replay the season last year ... the first 10 game will do.
If the lack of quality depth in those games and the result doesn't
translate to what is happening before your very eyes then there is nothing I
say that will induce even the sightest concern on your part.
It is a very good thing the PATs have an easier schedule this year.

Tell me one team that could withstand the SHEER NUMBER of injuries the Pats suffered last year, especially in amount of games missed and field a bunch of 1st stringers still? The Pats spent to the cap last year and put a good product on the field. I really am at a loss how you say the Pats didn't have "quality" depth when with the amount of injuries they had for the year they still ended up 10-6 (really 11-5 if they wanted the Miami game) with one of the hardests schedules in the league last year, care to answer that? You blew your own arguement out of the water.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaammmmmmmmmmmmnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where's Nut's panic button when you need it. ROTFLMAO

 

[primetime]

Wow! A guy who probably wasn't even going to make the team in the first place got hurt! WE'RE DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!

 

[pats-blue]

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaammmmmmmmmmmmnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where's Nut's panic button when you need it. ROTFLMAO

I know this is another posters line but it is obvious before the 1st preseason game we are..........

DOOOOOMMED!

 

[pats-blue]

Wow! A guy who probably wasn't even going to make the team in the first place got hurt! WE'RE DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!

crap you were quicker than me...well maybe that isn't a good thing...besides "mine is bigger"

 

[RayClay]

This article might give you a "Lttle Depth Preception"

http://patriots.bostonherald.com/patriots/view.bg?articleid=151484

Of course you might not be able to read it with those rose colored glasses on.
Take them off and try to read with an open mind.

Mitchell isn't a receiver or LB though. We have depth at safety, young and old and at gunner.

 

[fgssand]

The front office understands more about football, the salary cap, and organizational management in one day than anyone on this board will know in their lifetime.

BINGO.....they know what they are doing and they will put together an awesome team this year as well as for many years to come.

To even have to think of defending this collection of the best combination of football minds in a front office is rediculous.

So much panic, so much doubt, so much negativity....STOP the madness.

Let this season play out and once again, there will be many thrills come January and hopefully Feb as well.

Sit back, relax and enjoy these times for this is as good as it will ever get. Enjoy your team of the decade and perhaps, with a few more rings, the greatest of all time.

 

[marty]

I read Felger's chicken Little article this am with great amusement. We're 30 odd days away from the kickoff and he's writing about depth? Talk about looking for the panic button to add exposure to his by-line!!!

 

[AzPatsFan]

Why is he unbelievable?
Does the FO understand that what cost $ x last year now costs $ x + 20% x ?

Duh... I guess you think they don't... Duh... BTW, they didn't have x cap room last year...


Cap money carried over to a year when no one else has any, is very valuable. Looks like the Pats may be doing that as well as re-upping a lot of vets a year or two from FA. They were cautious and didn't bet that a new CBA would be signed until it was. They didn't dig a big hole and jump in expecting something to bail them out. They were prudent then, and prudent now.