Poll: Moss double covered vs. other WR single covered

[shareef242]

Moss has lost more of a step than people are willing to admit. I'm willing to bet that THAT is why the Patriots were not going to offer him a contract, whether Belichick explained as much or not. When Moss showed up in excellent shape, Bill probably had second thoughts and tried to work something out.

To answer the question, Tate single covered is better odds than Moss double covered right now. Tate singled covered by Cromartie or Revis might even be better odds than Moss single covered by Cromartie or Revis just because he seems more inclined to fight for a pass.

I find this thread interesting along with the other with"BB saying Moss not dictating coverages". That hogwash.

As a Viking fan who watched a ton of your games on DVR. Randy Moss besides a few plays here in there wasn't the same player in O7' that he was in 98-03'.

Really most Viking fans I know still believe his 03' season was better then 07'.

He has 111 grabs for 1632 yards & 17 TD's. NFL record of averaging 100 yards & 1 TD a game.

So you got a Moss that IMO was 75% of what he was in 03'.

The Bengals almost played ZERO man coverage. TV will show you where the safety is before every snap. I counted the safety in the picture 3 Times the entire game.

The Jets played single high in the 2nd half but not the first.

Buffalo played Cover 2 the entire game.

Miami played Cover 2 almost the entire game.

So besides the 2nd half of the Jet game. Where is all this man coverage Moss wasn't beating. It didn't exist.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

And hopefully for the last time, I'll post that the 3rd option was a combo of Ben Watson, Joey Galloway or Sam Aiken. Even when single covered i in no way blame Brady for not wanting to throw to those guys all that much.

Galloway and Aiken, I can understand. But Watson wasn't a bad option at all. He caught 49 passes for us in 2006. He caught 29 passes in only 41 targets last season, including 5 TDs. He also has 23 catches in 35 targets through 5 games for a team without a real QB this season, on pace for over 70 catches.

And while on the topic of TEs in 2009, Chris Baker also caught 14 passes in only 17 targets. There were several times he was open but completely ignored. It felt like Brady was locked into certain guys at times last season.

 

[DaedalusX]

It felt like Brady was locked into certain guys at times last season.

Don't think Belichick didn't notice that, too.

If Belichick thinks Brady was focusing too much on Moss after a lot of coaching on the issue and the offense was suffering for it, he'd dump Moss for sure.

Too many weapons out there for it to be the Brady/Moss/Welker show anymore.

 

[emoney_33]

Don't think Belichick didn't notice that, too.

If Belichick thinks Brady was focusing too much on Moss after a lot of coaching on the issue and the offense was suffering for it, he'd dump Moss for sure.

Too many weapons out there for it to be the Brady/Moss/Welker show anymore.

Of course you can't believe that unless you believed that they wouldn't even attempt to coach Brady or that Brady is uncoachable.

 

[DaedalusX]

Of course you can't believe that unless you believed that they wouldn't even attempt to coach Brady or that Brady is uncoachable.

Your "defend Moss at all costs" routine is getting old. I defended him last year too, but his drop in performance and Brady's laser lock on him aren't really in question anymore.

And Brady isn't superhuman. Even he can get into bad habits.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Don't think Belichick didn't notice that, too.

If Belichick thinks Brady was focusing too much on Moss after a lot of coaching on the issue and the offense was suffering for it, he'd dump Moss for sure.

Too many weapons out there for it to be the Brady/Moss/Welker show anymore.

Moss is an easy target to pick on, but last season there are times it felt like Brady was focused on Welker only. And on that 4th and 2 vs. the Colts, Faulk was his first and only read it seemed, though it appeared as if one of the slot guys (Welker or Edelman, can't remember) was open in the middle of the field. Just didn't seem like Tom was his usual self at times last season.

 

[emoney_33]

Your "defend Moss at all costs" routine is getting old. I defended him last year too, but his drop in performance and Brady's laser lock on him aren't really in question anymore.

And Brady isn't superhuman. Even he can get into bad habits.

I just defended Brady there. Way to just COMPLETELY miss the point.

If Brady was indeed negatively impacting the team by locking on to ANY receiver, he should be coached to stop doing that. If he was NOT being coached to stop doing it, that would be an ENORMOUS negative on the coaching staff. If he were coached to stop doing it and continued anyway, that would be an ENORMOUS negative on Tom Brady.

So if the trade was because Brady was locking onto him, then that says more negatively about either the coaching staff or Brady. I am defending the coaching staff and Brady here.

 

[emoney_33]

Moss is an easy target to pick on, but last season there are times it felt like Brady was focused on Welker only. And on that 4th and 2 vs. the Colts, Faulk was his first and only read it seemed, though it appeared as if one of the slot guys (Welker or Edelman, can't remember) was open in the middle of the field. Just didn't seem like Tom was his usual self at times last season.

He wasn't himself last season but even at his best there will be plays where -other- players get open that he doesn't throw to. The Faulk play was specifically designed and practiced and it "worked".

 

[glm]

And on that 4th and 2 vs. the Colts, Faulk was his first and only read it seemed, though it appeared as if one of the slot guys (Welker or Edelman, can't remember) was open in the middle of the field.

Did you not see Robert Mathis rape Kaczur? Brady didn't have any time to make any other reads.

 

[JoeSixPat]

After the Moss trade, one of the main questions of posters on this board is how this would affect the other WR's because Randy isn't there anymore to open up the field for everyone else. Many patsfans and pundits have assumed that player's like Welker will now have a field that is less open because the new "deep threat" WR (Tate, or whoever else runs a deep route) will not be double covered anymore therefore allowing that extra safety to shadow other receivers.

If this turns out to be true, the question in my mind is who would be more effective on a ball thrown his way, Randy Moss with a CB and S covering him on every play or the new deep threat WR with only one CB on him. I can argue that out both ways but I thought I'd get opinions from you guys here too.

How can there even be a question about this?

I want Tate to be then next monster Deep Threat WR as much as anyone, but look at Moss' numbers over the last few seasons WITH Double coverage.

Are you guys actually expecting Tate to equal or exceed Moss' numbers?

If so I think you're setting your expectations much too high.

If everyone's singled covered part of the trick here is that they need to get open now... Brady always likes "the guy who was open" - that was much more likely with Moss, or a legitimate deep threat on the team.

I don't really think Belichick and Co. are done tinkering at WR

 

[convertedpatsfan]

He wasn't himself last season but even at his best there will be plays where -other- players get open that he doesn't throw to. The Faulk play was specifically designed and practiced and it "worked".

Did you not see Robert Mathis rape Kaczur? Brady didn't have any time to make any other reads.

To be honest, I haven't re-watched that play or that game since it happened, and I was in a state of shock from how we lost that one, so I haven't had the heart to review it since. But I will try...one of these days.

 

[DaedalusX]

I just defended Brady there. Way to just COMPLETELY miss the point.

If Brady was indeed negatively impacting the team by locking on to ANY receiver, he should be coached to stop doing that. If he was NOT being coached to stop doing it, that would be an ENORMOUS negative on the coaching staff. If he were coached to stop doing it and continued anyway, that would be an ENORMOUS negative on Tom Brady.

So if the trade was because Brady was locking onto him, then that says more negatively about either the coaching staff or Brady. I am defending the coaching staff and Brady here.

No, you're defending Moss by making it seem like it's impossible to criticize Brady, too.

 

[Brady2Welker]

I saw that catch Tate had against Buffalo again, granted he was on their #2 corner but he seems to have good vertical leap, decent hands, and managed to get up above the defender to catch it. A lot of people underestimate Tate. He and Hakeem Nicks were extremely proficient in college, weed and injuries dropped him to the third despite that some people had him as a first or second round player depending on his combine(Exact same reason Hernandez fell to the fourth). He has the talent to play, just hasn't had the chance.

 

[emoney_33]

No, you're defending Moss by making it seem like it's impossible to criticize Brady, too.

You are clearly reading with the intent of seeing Moss defense in my posts, so that's YOUR problem. The fact of the matter is that neither the coaching staff nor Brady are as inept as you make them out to be.

What's especially humorous is your argument that the trade was based on "locking" into Moss, except the trade came after a game Moss was targeted once, on a fake spike no less. In a season where Moss' only high target game was the Jets game in week 2. Not only does your argument not hold water at any level but your defense of it is to accuse me of defending Moss while I'm defending Brady.

 

[DaedalusX]

You are clearly reading with the intent of seeing Moss defense in my posts, so that's YOUR problem. The fact of the matter is that neither the coaching staff nor Brady are as inept as you make them out to be.

What's especially humorous is your argument that the trade was based on "locking" into Moss, except the trade came after a game Moss was targeted once, on a fake spike no less. In a season where Moss' only high target game was the Jets game in week 2. Not only does your argument not hold water at any level but your defense of it is to accuse me of defending Moss while I'm defending Brady.

I never said the trade was based solely on Brady locking onto Moss.

I also said:

Moss has lost more of a step than people are willing to admit. I'm willing to bet that THAT is why the Patriots were not going to offer him a contract, whether Belichick explained as much or not. When Moss showed up in excellent shape, Bill probably had second thoughts and tried to work something out.

His performance dropped. Brady was forcing the ball to him too much at the cost of other receivers who were open. Even passes Moss should have caught he just wasn't. Bill isn't stupid and must have seen all of this too.

Moss is gone because it was better for the team all around.

 

[glm]

To be honest, I haven't re-watched that play or that game since it happened, and I was in a state of shock from how we lost that one, so I haven't had the heart to review it since. But I will try...one of these days.

I hear you. I just remember Mathis was destroying Kaczur all day, and I was hoping that maybe Kaczur would maybe block him for just this one play . . . nope. :bricks:

 

[RyanP421]

I find this thread interesting along with the other with"BB saying Moss not dictating coverages". That hogwash.

As a Viking fan who watched a ton of your games on DVR. Randy Moss besides a few plays here in there wasn't the same player in O7' that he was in 98-03'.

Really most Viking fans I know still believe his 03' season was better then 07'.

He has 111 grabs for 1632 yards & 17 TD's. NFL record of averaging 100 yards & 1 TD a game.

So you got a Moss that IMO was 75% of what he was in 03'.

The Bengals almost played ZERO man coverage. TV will show you where the safety is before every snap. I counted the safety in the picture 3 Times the entire game.

The Jets played single high in the 2nd half but not the first.

Buffalo played Cover 2 the entire game.

Miami played Cover 2 almost the entire game.

So besides the 2nd half of the Jet game. Where is all this man coverage Moss wasn't beating. It didn't exist.

This post is ******ed in so many ways.

 

[shirtsleeve]

 

[RyanP421]

He wasn't himself last season but even at his best there will be plays where -other- players get open that he doesn't throw to. The Faulk play was specifically designed and practiced and it "worked".

I agree that it "worked", but honestly, Faulk should have run a better route rather than run it so tight that was SO CLOSE.

 

[shareef242]

This post is ******ed in so many ways.

Please explain for the ******.