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Peyton v. Tom for MVP

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PatsFanSince74, Nov 30, 2012.

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  1. PatsFanSince74

    PatsFanSince74 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    A rare article that gives both players their just due and not just Peyton!

    Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are turning in vintage performances in a vintage year, as they have in so many other seasons. Only this time it feels unique, more unexpected, with each player that much further along in his career.

    In the twilights of their careers, Brady and Manning are giving football and their followers career years. No one would be surprised if it resulted in one more postseason matchup, one more chance for these men to cement their legacy as two of the greatest quarterbacks in NFL history...

    Peyton Manning, Tom Brady in another MVP battle -- Adam Schefter's 10 Spot - ESPN
  2. Palm Beach Pats Fan

    Palm Beach Pats Fan Rookie

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    I still think it shortchanges Tom in only noting the TD/INT ratio as the sole leg up he has on Manning. QB rating, total QBR, win/loss record, historic productivity of offense, and the head-to-head result are also all in his favor.

    There's even the insinuation that Brady's had a worse season than last year due to the higher number of passing yards he had last year.

    Put this years ground attack on last years team, or last year's ground attack on this year's team, and the numbers would equalize. He's having as good a season as ever and has the ability (and willingness!) to hand off to the guys scoring the most rushing touchdowns in the league.
  3. RelocatedPatFan

    RelocatedPatFan Rookie

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    Tried sticking to the middle ground which is a appreciated, but didn't really go into too much detail other that 3 stats. I was hoping for more meat and potatoes by comparison.

    Thanks for the link.
  4. yukon cornelius

    yukon cornelius Rookie

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    i hate to be that guy, but W/L record and H2H results are TEAM stats, not QB stats....total offensive production is a function of the entire offense, of which the QB is just a part


    i always look at it holistically.......peyton is the more skilled QB......TB is the better football player
  5. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    We need to wait until the season is over to compare these guys. Unless they give out the award next week.
  6. Fixit

    Fixit Rookie

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    Please do elaborate on that one.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012
  7. Palm Beach Pats Fan

    Palm Beach Pats Fan Rookie

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    Not on this planet. Look at the wounded duck throws he makes.

    Stats show that this year, or any other year, you want Tom over Peyton at QB if the game is played inside, outside, in the heat, in the cold, in the wind, in the calm, in the rain, in the sleet, on grass, on turf, or any other way the game is played.
  8. Jackson 2

    Jackson 2 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah, like some others here, I need some clarification on how you've concluded that Manning is the "more skilled QB."
  9. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As I've pointed out before, back when Manning had a better passer rating than Brady, Brady nevertheless had a higher passer rating in dome games and in games played outdoors. The only reason Manning's passer rating was higher was that everybody plays better indoors than outdoors, and Manning played far more games indoors than Brady did.
  10. Fixit

    Fixit Rookie

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    Not in commercials, though.
  11. randomk1

    randomk1 Rookie

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    There should be no discussion right now. Brady shredded the supposedly better D head to head. He is better in every statistical way. Operates a better offense, Von Miller - you know that guy in the running for DPOY.
  12. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Look, Peyton is great, and I don't want to take anything away from the guy. It's honestly great to have him back and be having this discussion, as much as it sickens me that he'll win the award by default unless Brady runs the table and steamrolls two of the best defenses in the league this month.

    Having said that, I am not a believer in the Broncos as a team as of yet.

    They've played three good teams (NE, HOU, ATL), and not only did they lose to all of them, but in the first 3 quarters of each game, they were outscored a combined 89-32.

    I could be wrong, but I think this will catch up to that team at some point.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012
  13. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Here's my problem with the entire "Manning for MVP" movement:

    1. If it's based on numbers, Brady's the clear winner
    2. If it's based on Denver, Tebow guts that argument
    3. If it's based on Indianapolis, Luck guts that argument
    4. If it's based on opposing defenses, Brady v. Denver/Baltimore guts that argument

    Essentially, "Manning for MVP" is relying on the media completely ignoring the underlying facts and sticking with the soap opera aspect of things.
  14. resdubwhite

    resdubwhite Rookie

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    I'm surprised Manning is in the conversation. He's definately top 5. But in a conversation with Brady directly.

    hmmmmm
  15. sieglo

    sieglo Rookie

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    FTFY.

    10chars
  16. sieglo

    sieglo Rookie

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    But that's what the media is paid to do.
  17. MoLewisrocks

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    Turnovers and the case for Tom Brady as MVP
  18. ThatllMoveTheChains!!!

    ThatllMoveTheChains!!! Rookie

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    But if you base it on comparing Brady's season to his own MVP seasons and Manning's season to his own MVP seasons Manning is the clear winner!:D
  19. CityOfChampions

    CityOfChampions Rookie

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    I think it should be more in Brady's favor than everyone on sports networks are making it out to be (but I'm glad people are finally at least mentioning Brady). He leads the #1 offense in the NFL who averages the most points per game in history with injured receivers all season. Gronk, Hernandez, and Edelman missing games, Welker and Lloyd beat up during games. Peyton has 26 passing TD's, 0 rushing TD's, Broncos running backs have 6 rushing TD's. Brady has 24 passing TD's, 3 rushing TD's, Patriots running backs have 18(!) rushing TD's. Brady 3 interceptions, Manning 8 interceptions. People talk about how easy the AFC East is? AFC West is just as bad. The only thing that is giving people reason to vote for Manning over Brady is bc he just came back from injury which is lame - there's a separate award for that. Plus Manning has got to face the Patriots and the Saints defense this season, imagine if Brady got to face them! Lol. Broncos have the 4th defense in the NFL, Patriots 27th.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012
  20. Uncle Rico

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    Yeah, kind of an odd take by Schefter. I know he was trying to tie the current battle to years past, but the MVP is about what happens this year.
  21. ThatllMoveTheChains!!!

    ThatllMoveTheChains!!! Rookie

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    Maybe I'll be eating my words about this QB switch.
  22. ThatllMoveTheChains!!!

    ThatllMoveTheChains!!! Rookie

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    Indeed, all he really drove home is how the bar is much lower for Manning. That's most likely going to be the driving force for him winning yet again. It's odd how the legend of some players magically makes it easier for them to get lauded with praise, but for others it makes it easier to criticize them.
  23. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Mankins leads the pro bowl balloting at LG again this season... Then again wouldn't be the first time he was elected playing half a season. Got All Pro last time too. Perception often overshadows reality.
  24. SacPete1

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    Its clearly an agenda based award since the AP Writers who vote have their favorites already. If the current statistics continue, I think neither QB will stand out compared against each other. With that said, Adrian Peterson at this point in my view has had the most impressive season relative to players at his position and the fact he is coming back from a late season ACL is equally or more impressive than Manning.

    Truth be told, since it is a vote among a list media members, the sentiment is clearly on Manning's side given his story and Brady would have to be substantially superior statistic wise to beat him out. Should history even play into the assessment? Certainly not but I'm not naive enough to think it won't.

    If Manning does win it, we'll hear the talk immediately of him being the greatest of all time with his 5th MVP and if Denver then loses in the first round, none of the media will recant.

    If the Pats win it all, then we will hear immediately about Brady being the best ever.
    All of it is just rhetoric. The only thing that really matters is who's holding the trophy.
  25. RelocatedPatFan

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    Is Peyton Manning great. Without a doubt.

    Peyton has long been celebrated as "THE" QB because he was a #1 pick. you would think that would work in Brady's favor, but it doesn't seem to. The media favors him for whatever reasons:
    • His PR department is just out of this world
    • People feel better about him because they vouched for him as #1 pick (aka people like to be right)
    • He was designated the savior of a franchise and lived up to it
    • He appears to be a likable guy

    Why are people against Brady?
    • He's a Patriot. National bias agaisnt us. Stories with negative comments probably get better hits and the fan base really isn't interested in the truth. Sports fandom is an emotional endeavor and negative press gets better recognition
    • Boston media has this contrarian attitude that biases the national media
    • Nobody saw him coming, so they can;t feel good about predicting him. Though you think the rags to riches/never say quit attitude would be a better story
    • What % of people wouldn't love to have his life?
    • Patriot media relations has things on lockdown and Brady doesn't give the soundbites. Oddly PM has about the same accessibility and has thrown people under the bus

    And all that's before we even talk stats. People will say PM is doing it all because he doesn't have Brady's running game, though few journalist consider that the running game is so effective because people are worried about Brady.

    One thing I have to give props to PM is that he was off a year, had to come into a new team and imprint his system on the team and that has been a smashing success (though maybe it has affected their run game as it's PM-throwing focused)?

    I think if it was stat based, Brady is the clear winner. However, this seems to be mostly an emotional decision and that plays against Brady (well unless you are a patriot fan).
  26. yukon cornelius

    yukon cornelius Rookie

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    i guess one could easily say brady has evolved into the more skilled QB, especially at this stage of their careers

    during their rise, peyton was always considered the more physically gifted QB, the 'natural'....while TB has used his intangibles to craft himself into the player he is today


    poor choice of words on my part
  27. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

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    Right now I think this idea that Manning is the clear cut MVP by most in the media is rediculous and that Brady should be considered the favorite at this point in time. And he should be the favorite by a decent margin not an unpassable margin but a big one.

    But the good news is there are still several weeks left and with us facing off against the 9ers and Texans and with Denver facing off against Balt and just a month of cold games I think this will sort itself out.
  28. Fixit

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    Fair enough.
  29. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Nailed it. And the bolded part has long been a part of the equation. The elitist NE media would die before being perceived as biased "suckers" so the play the role of contrarian critics to prove how smaht they are...and the national idiots follow the leader. Media are a flock of lemmings if ever there was one. That's why there are almost as many undeserving members of the HOF as there are deserving players who remain on the outside looking in.
  30. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Bledsoe and Zolak have jumped aboard the Manning bandwagon.
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