Peter King ranks the five greatest pro football coaches of all time

[lurker1965]

Paul Brown is in there so King doesn't have to pick Belichick first.

One guy who'd pick Brown over Belichick, I think, is Belichick.

I agree. The reason he picked Brown and not, say, Halas or Lambeau is he knows no Patriot fan will argue with him on twitter.

Was Cleveland even an NFL team when Brown coached? I'm not sure. He does have some remarkable accomplishments, though.

Yes

The Browns started in the AAFC, won their 4 championships, then that league merged with the NFL and were in the next 6 NFL championships, winning 3 of them. (Or did they win 4, I forget)

Paul Brown was the BB of his day. But I agree with you.

Yes, then Model forced him out. LaterModel fired Belichick. Cleveland cheered each move, so they get no symapathy from me when the guy who drove out Brown moved the team.
BTW, Brown started the Cincinnati Bengals of the AFL whose early uniforms were basically the Browns with the word B-E-N-G-A-L-S on their helmet.

 

[Ring 6]

He's come close on many occasions, and calls him the father of professional football. When he tied Brown for victories, he wore a fedora to the stadium in his honor, saying "I just thought this would be a way to pay tribute to the greatest person in professional football."

I can't argue with the guy who literally introduced the playbook being #1. It gets tougher lower down the list...Noll vs. Landry vs. Walsh? How much do you rate winning vs. innovation? Etc.

You also have to consider there was more to innovate back then

 

[Tony2046]

1. Vince Lombardi
2. Paul Brown
3. Curly Lambeau
4. George Halas


Nobody else in their class. Or, to put it another way, the next batch of great coaches is a level below. Nothing personal, not a popularity contest. Based upon what criteria? Leadership, innovation, ability to assemble top assistants and players and add it up to winning.

5. Bill Belichick
6. Chuck Noll
7. Tom Landry
8. Bill Walsh

Establishing a culture of winning and dedication, and maintaining it over a long period of time.

9. Don Shula
10. Joe Gibbs
11. Bill Parcells
12. George Allen


People around here like to dump on Rod Rust, but he was an outstanding defensive coach. If he swapped places with Seifert, you'd get the same results on both sides, I believe.

You might want to redo your top 4. Rumor has it that Halas hated the Pat Patriot Logo and wanted it changed.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The Browns started in the AAFC, won their 4 championships, then that league merged with the NFL and were in the next 6 NFL championships, winning 3 of them. (Or did they win 4, I forget)

Yep. Just looked it up to refresh my memory.

He won a 4 straight titles in the AAFC then in 1950 in the NFL and he went 3-4 in title games.

 

[Ring 6]

Brown/Belichick/Lombardi/Walsh

Landry/Shula/Noll/Halas/Gibbs/Madden

I could see an argument for Lambeau being in the top 10, as well.

Others in the conversation
Jimmy Johnson
Shanahan
Parcells
Stram

Can't see any if them replacing anyone other than in that top 10 though.

 

[primetime]

There's always a mystique with the older guys. It all comes in on reputation. My dad thinks OJ Simpson was the best running back who ever played, so I'll echo that. My kids might echo that. Meanwhile my kids will be watching Zeke Elliot and Todd Gurley, who if you transported them back in time to the early 70s, would have made OJ Simpson look like James White running the ball.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Others in the conversation
Jimmy Johnson
Shanahan
Parcells
Stram

Can't see any if them replacing anyone other than in that top 10 though.

If Jimmy stays in Dallas.....

 

[yukon cornelius]

I'm with the guys that have Noll outside the top 5

BB, Lombardi, Walsh & Landry in the top 5 for sure....

 

[primetime]

If Jimmy stays in Dallas.....

The teams he coached were obscene ad built on a bounty of picks he had nothing to do with acquiring.

 

[yukon cornelius]

Anyone else think Parcells is perhaps the single most overrated coach of all time?

 

[yukon cornelius]

outside the top 5, probably outside the top 10, but doesn't get enough respect: Don Coryell

leaving him out of the Hall is a travesty

 

[Ring 6]

If Jimmy stays in Dallas.....

He still accomplished enough to merit consideration
Madden won 1 championship

 

[Ring 6]

Anyone else think Parcells is perhaps the single most overrated coach of all time?

outside the top 5, probably outside the top 10, but doesn't get enough respect: Don Coryell

leaving him out of the Hall is a travesty

Ironic

 

[Ring 6]

The teams he coached were obscene ad built on a bounty of picks he had nothing to do with acquiring.

He had a lot to do with acquiring his players.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm with the guys that have Noll outside the top 5

BB, Lombardi, Walsh & Landry in the top 5 for sure....

Noll took over a horrible team and won 4 championships. That is more than both Walsh and Landry won.

 

[PP2]

Paul Brown and BB are probably head to head as far as being the best ever. Brown invented the playbook, film study, calling plays from the sidelines, and was the first to install a walkie talkie speaker in his QB's helmet, and this was in 1956 (the NFL didn't start using them until 1991, IIRC)!

While not as much of an innovator as Brown (they were from very different eras) BB has been as much of an innovator in his own ways, and especially in the salary cap era in which it is difficult to remain competitive, year in, year out.

When all is said and done, I think BB will be viewed mainly as a supremely competent football coach who never stopped thinking of how to gain that extra edge, for being a non-conformist, and for taking film study to a whole new level.

It would make for interesting discussion to figure out just what makes BB one of the greatest coach.

 

[yukon cornelius]

Noll took over a horrible team and won 4 championships. That is more than both Walsh and Landry won.

walsh was revolutionary, as was landry

noll had probably the most stacked roster ever assembled (and probably the most drugged) - noll was good, but outside my top 5

 

[RobertWeathers]

He still accomplished enough to merit consideration
Madden won 1 championship

Not in the top 5

 

[yukon cornelius]

Ironic

not at all - Parcells was a great judge of talent, and his fear-based coaching got him quick success.....but he tended to lose his players after awhile, he didn't have the genius of Lombardi to pat someone on the back when they thought they'd get yelled at, and kick them in the ass when they thought they deserved praise

Lombardi was a master psychologist....Parcells was just, well, an *******......he assembled talent well, and he surrounded himself with great assistants (what DID he do without BB?)....

Parcells peaked with the great Giants teams with a slew of great young assistants.....it's no coincidence he never achieved that level of success again, and some would say he saw steady decline after that run.....not saying Parcells isn't a top 10 all-time, but I have him a lot farther down than some


Coryell was the father of the modern passing attack......take a look at the innovations he's credited with: the single back formation, pre-snap motion, his offense forced the implementation of nickel & dime schemes, pre-snap reads & option routes, route trees, move tight ends

Coryells coaching tree is just as impressive as a lot of the other greats, and one could argue BB owes quite a bit to Coryell

He doesn't have the rings, but Coryell's legacy in terms of innovation is hard to argue against

 

[AzPatsFan]

You might want to redo your top 4. Rumor has it that Halas hated the Pat Patriot Logo and wanted it changed.

He also hated Paul Brown and made sure none of the AAFC records, but in particular Browns perfect undefeated untied season didn't count. By comparison all the AFL records are kept and integrated with NFL records. Yet when the AFL came in they lost the first two Superbowls indicating inferiority, whereas Brown beat the NFL champion as the first game ever at the Eagles, and won the NFL title at the end of the season. too.