Peter King :It's time to make room for Flacco in upper echelon of QBs

[randomk1]

What makes him elite actually? He's a ****tier version of Eli/Rapist and i have a hard time considering them elite.

 

[Ivan]

King is right, Flacco has elevated himself to that Dan Fouts, Philip Rivers, kordell Stewart plateau. Great job Joe, kudos. Nice echelon you got there.

 

[1960Pats]

It's amazing how we can dump on a QB who has recently led his team to a couple of big victories over our team.

2012 - @ Baltimore - 31-30 Ravens
2011 - @NE - 23-20 Pats (this one easily could have been a Ravens win)
2010 - @NE - 23-20 Pats in OT
2009 - @NE - 27-21 Pats
2009 - @NE - 33-14 Ravens

In that stretch he led his Ravens team to more points against us than his team gave up to our vaunted offense. The time for laughing at this guy should have ended by now.

 

[ausbacker]

It's amazing how we can dump on a QB who has recently led his team to a couple of big victories over our team.

2012 - @ Baltimore - 31-30 Ravens
2011 - @NE - 23-20 Pats (this one easily could have been a Ravens win)
2010 - @NE - 23-20 Pats in OT
2009 - @NE - 27-21 Pats
2009 - @NE - 33-14 Ravens

In that stretch he led his Ravens team to more points against us than his team gave up to our vaunted offense. The time for laughing at this guy should have ended by now.

So you're saying we should celebrate Joe Flacco for being 2-3 against the Patriots?

 

[Clonamery]

It's amazing how we can dump on a QB who has recently led his team to a couple of big victories over our team.

2012 - @ Baltimore - 31-30 Ravens
2011 - @NE - 23-20 Pats (this one easily could have been a Ravens win)
2010 - @NE - 23-20 Pats in OT
2009 - @NE - 27-21 Pats
2009 - @NE - 33-14 Ravens

In that stretch he led his Ravens team to more points against us than his team gave up to our vaunted offense. The time for laughing at this guy should have ended by now.

Who are you? Joe Flacco's Uncle Tony? Heeeeeeyyyyy, capito.

 

[1960Pats]

So you're saying we should celebrate Joe Flacco for being 2-3 against the Patriots?

Certainly not, and I'm not calling him elite, but the guy has earned more respect from us than he's getting. That's all.

Btw, that 2-3 record is one bad play by a WR and one OT game away from 4-1. He looks unflaccable at times.

 

[1960Pats]

Who are you? Joe Flacco's Uncle Tony? Heeeeeeyyyyy, capito.

If I was his uncle and was reading this thread I'd tell him to shut those arrogant NE fans up by kicking their team's ass on Sunday.

He should have earned more respect from us. Capice?

 

[goheels22002]

Who of the following is Flacco going to replace in the upper echelon of Quarterbacks?

1. Tom Brady
2. Aaron Rodgers
3. Drew Brees
4. Peyton Manning
5. Ben Roethlisberger

With two Super Bowl titles, Eli Manning would be #6 on this list, at least.

Flacco needs to win this weekend and on February 3rd to be #7.

My feeling is that the pressure is really on for him and Ray Rice to power the Ravens' offense this weekend.

 

[ausbacker]

Certainly not, and I'm not calling him elite, but the guy has earned more respect from us than he's getting. That's all.

Btw, that 2-3 record is one bad play by a WR and one OT game away from 4-1. He looks unflaccable at times.

I think Flacco is a good ordinary Quarterback. Sure, he plays some nice games and he appears to be striking whilst the iron is hot, but he's hardly worthy of the positive attention he's getting. Then again, the Manti Te'o story is getting more press than it should so who knows.

I'm hopeful the Patriots D takes away his long ball. He's very average without it.

 

[ivanvamp]

Ok, it's just my take. But here are my thoughts on QB tiers, in no particular order within the tiers:

Tier One (Elite)
Brady
Rodgers
Manning
Brees

Tier Two (Very good/Sub-elite)
Roethlisberger
RG3
Kaepernick
Stafford
Wilson
Ryan
Newton

Tier Three (Good)
Luck
Romo
Schaub
Cutler
Rivers

Tier Four (Average)
Dalton
Flacco
Palmer
Tannehill
Fitzpatrick
Vick
E. Manning
Bradford
Cassell
Freeman

Tier Five (Not Good)
Sanchez
Weeden
Locker
Ponder
Skelton
Gabbert

So, maybe you COULD move Flacco into the next tier, but three weeks ago, most people would have agree that he wasn't a top 15 QB. But what 22 NFL QBs are below Flacco for him to be a Top 10? And Top 10 isn't elite. Top 5 is elite, so who among RG3, Kaepernick, Stafford, Big Ben, Wilson, Ryan, or Newton would you wanna replace with Joe Flacco?

Wait...you put Eli Manning, a QB that has won two rings and has had several excellent regular seasons, stats-wise, in the same tier as Cassell, Freeman, and Fitzpatrick?

Yikes.......

 

[Clonamery]

If I was his uncle and was reading this thread I'd tell him to shut those arrogant NE fans up by kicking their team's ass on Sunday.

He should have earned more respect from us. Capice?

I don't think NE fans are any more arrogant than any other successful NFL team's fans.

When it comes to the Ravens I don't count Joey Flaccosis in the top 7 or 8 Raven playmakers. It could say alot about Baltimore but I think it says more about the consistency and overall skill at the QB position.

He is he good? Sure. Great? No, but go ahead and pay him that way Ozzie.....

 

[ivanvamp]

It's amazing how we can dump on a QB who has recently led his team to a couple of big victories over our team.

2012 - @ Baltimore - 31-30 Ravens
2011 - @NE - 23-20 Pats (this one easily could have been a Ravens win)
2010 - @NE - 23-20 Pats in OT
2009 - @NE - 27-21 Pats
2009 - @NE - 33-14 Ravens

In that stretch he led his Ravens team to more points against us than his team gave up to our vaunted offense. The time for laughing at this guy should have ended by now.

Your larger point is worth noting, but using the '09 playoff game as an example of how good Flacco has become is ludicrous.

In that game he was 4-10 for 34 yards, 0 TD, and 1 INT, for a rating of 10.0.

He literally had nothing to do with their win that day.

 

[Dscola]

The last couple of years I've come to this board to talk football with fans of the Pats being that we have played so many games since 2010. Usually we have pretty goo discussions.

I must say with this game coming up, I've heard so much disrespect coming from your fans than I have ever heard. It's like (some of) you don't believe the Ravens don't even belong on the same field as the Patriots.

And this thing about Flacco, I'll ask this question. Before Flacco came what were the Ravens? Following the 2001 season when the Ravens realeased most players from thier superbowl season, this is how they fared:

2002- 7-9 missed playoffs
2003- 10-6 Jamal Lewis rushed for 2000 yards. lost in 1st round to Titans
2004- 9-7 missed playoffs
2005- 6-10 missed playoffs
2006- 13-3 lost to Colts 15-6 after 1st round bye.
2007- 5-11 missed playoffs
A top 5 defense every season and a very good running game yet, no playoff wins and only 1 back to back winning season.

With Flacco:

2008- 11-5 2 playoff wins. lost to Pittsburgh in AFCC
2009- 9-7 1 playoff win. lost to colts in divisional.
2010- 12-4 1 playoff win. lost to Pitt in divisional
2011- 12-4 1 playoff win. lost to Pats in AFCC
2012- 10-6- 2 playoff wins. Face Pats in AFCC.

I ask the question, what changed? The defense was always good. The running game was always good. The only thing that really changed was the QB.

Now I won't sit here and question why you don't respect Flacco. That's your perogative. I just don't understand the disrespect.

If wins are the criteria with other QBs, why do we rewrite the rules win he's involved in the conversation? If Playoffs is when QBs make their name, why do the rules get rewritten when Flacco is mentioned?

Matt Ryan threw 2 picks in his game vs the Hawks and almost blew a 20 point lead, but he made 2 throws and his team wins on a field goal, now he is clutch? If Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, or anyone else would have made that throw in Denver(yes it was a bad play by the DB and it was lucky), he would be praised as making a great play.

TLDR; give Flacco his due credit.

By the way, I rank Flacco 8th among starters:
Brady
Rodgers
Manning
Brees
Rothilisberger
Ryan
Eli
Flacco

 

[Clonamery]

The last couple of years I've come to this board to talk football with fans of the Pats being that we have played so many games since 2010. Usually we have pretty goo discussions.

I must say with this game coming up, I've heard so much disrespect coming from your fans than I have ever heard. It's like (some of) you don't believe the Ravens don't even belong on the same field as the Patriots.

And this thing about Flacco, I'll ask this question. Before Flacco came what were the Ravens? Following the 2001 season when the Ravens realeased most players from thier superbowl season, this is how they fared:

2002- 7-9 missed playoffs
2003- 10-6 Jamal Lewis rushed for 2000 yards. lost in 1st round to Titans
2004- 9-7 missed playoffs
2005- 6-10 missed playoffs
2006- 13-3 lost to Colts 15-6 after 1st round bye.
2007- 5-11 missed playoffs
A top 5 defense every season and a very good running game yet, no playoff wins and only 1 back to back winning season.

With Flacco:

2008- 11-5 2 playoff wins. lost to Pittsburgh in AFCC
2009- 9-7 1 playoff win. lost to colts in divisional.
2010- 12-4 1 playoff win. lost to Pitt in divisional
2011- 12-4 1 playoff win. lost to Pats in AFCC
2012- 10-6- 2 playoff wins. Face Pats in AFCC.

I ask the question, what changed? The defense was always good. The running game was always good. The only thing that really changed was the QB.

Now I won't sit here and question why you don't respect Flacco. That's your perogative. I just don't understand the disrespect.

If wins are the criteria with other QBs, why do we rewrite the rules win he's involved in the conversation? If Playoffs is when QBs make their name, why do the rules get rewritten when Flacco is mentioned?

Matt Ryan threw 2 picks in his game vs the Hawks and almost blew a 20 point lead, but he made 2 throws and his team wins on a field goal, now he is clutch? If Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, or anyone else would have made that throw in Denver(yes it was a bad play by the DB and it was lucky), he would be praised as making a great play.

TLDR; give Flacco his due credit.

By the way, I rank Flacco 8th among starters:
Brady
Rodgers
Manning
Brees
Rothilisberger
Ryan
Eli
Flacco

Ray Rice? Harbaugh?

 

[ivanvamp]

The last couple of years I've come to this board to talk football with fans of the Pats being that we have played so many games since 2010. Usually we have pretty goo discussions.

I must say with this game coming up, I've heard so much disrespect coming from your fans than I have ever heard. It's like (some of) you don't believe the Ravens don't even belong on the same field as the Patriots.

And this thing about Flacco, I'll ask this question. Before Flacco came what were the Ravens? Following the 2001 season when the Ravens realeased most players from thier superbowl season, this is how they fared:

2002- 7-9 missed playoffs
2003- 10-6 Jamal Lewis rushed for 2000 yards. lost in 1st round to Titans
2004- 9-7 missed playoffs
2005- 6-10 missed playoffs
2006- 13-3 lost to Colts 15-6 after 1st round bye.
2007- 5-11 missed playoffs
A top 5 defense every season and a very good running game yet, no playoff wins and only 1 back to back winning season.

With Flacco:

2008- 11-5 2 playoff wins. lost to Pittsburgh in AFCC
2009- 9-7 1 playoff win. lost to colts in divisional.
2010- 12-4 1 playoff win. lost to Pitt in divisional
2011- 12-4 1 playoff win. lost to Pats in AFCC
2012- 10-6- 2 playoff wins. Face Pats in AFCC.

I ask the question, what changed? The defense was always good. The running game was always good. The only thing that really changed was the QB.

Now I won't sit here and question why you don't respect Flacco. That's your perogative. I just don't understand the disrespect.

If wins are the criteria with other QBs, why do we rewrite the rules win he's involved in the conversation? If Playoffs is when QBs make their name, why do the rules get rewritten when Flacco is mentioned?

Matt Ryan threw 2 picks in his game vs the Hawks and almost blew a 20 point lead, but he made 2 throws and his team wins on a field goal, now he is clutch? If Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, or anyone else would have made that throw in Denver(yes it was a bad play by the DB and it was lucky), he would be praised as making a great play.

TLDR; give Flacco his due credit.

By the way, I rank Flacco 8th among starters:
Brady
Rodgers
Manning
Brees
Rothilisberger
Ryan
Eli
Flacco

Good post. And I agree. Flacco has been solid. And he's had some very good games against NE, so it wouldn't surprise me if he has one on Sunday.

The reaction here is to the notion that he has become elite. He is not at that level yet, though maybe he'll get there some day.

Excellent running game, top shelf defense, year in and year out, and no SB appearances (yet, though it could happen this year)? That means their QB isn't quite elite yet.

 

[jb1095]

The last couple of years I've come to this board to talk football with fans of the Pats being that we have played so many games since 2010. Usually we have pretty goo discussions.

I must say with this game coming up, I've heard so much disrespect coming from your fans than I have ever heard. It's like (some of) you don't believe the Ravens don't even belong on the same field as the Patriots.

And this thing about Flacco, I'll ask this question. Before Flacco came what were the Ravens? Following the 2001 season when the Ravens realeased most players from thier superbowl season, this is how they fared:

2002- 7-9 missed playoffs
2003- 10-6 Jamal Lewis rushed for 2000 yards. lost in 1st round to Titans
2004- 9-7 missed playoffs
2005- 6-10 missed playoffs
2006- 13-3 lost to Colts 15-6 after 1st round bye.
2007- 5-11 missed playoffs
A top 5 defense every season and a very good running game yet, no playoff wins and only 1 back to back winning season.

With Flacco:

2008- 11-5 2 playoff wins. lost to Pittsburgh in AFCC
2009- 9-7 1 playoff win. lost to colts in divisional.
2010- 12-4 1 playoff win. lost to Pitt in divisional
2011- 12-4 1 playoff win. lost to Pats in AFCC
2012- 10-6- 2 playoff wins. Face Pats in AFCC.

I ask the question, what changed? The defense was always good. The running game was always good. The only thing that really changed was the QB.

Now I won't sit here and question why you don't respect Flacco. That's your perogative. I just don't understand the disrespect.

If wins are the criteria with other QBs, why do we rewrite the rules win he's involved in the conversation? If Playoffs is when QBs make their name, why do the rules get rewritten when Flacco is mentioned?

Matt Ryan threw 2 picks in his game vs the Hawks and almost blew a 20 point lead, but he made 2 throws and his team wins on a field goal, now he is clutch? If Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, or anyone else would have made that throw in Denver(yes it was a bad play by the DB and it was lucky), he would be praised as making a great play.

TLDR; give Flacco his due credit.

By the way, I rank Flacco 8th among starters:
Brady
Rodgers
Manning
Brees
Rothilisberger
Ryan
Eli
Flacco

Since you chose to start your great stat debate in 2008, please allow me to remind you that that was the rookie year for Ray Rice and the team was built around him. Baltimore has always had a great defense and has always played NE tough. I don't think you will see any Patriots fans denying that fact. All you are harping on right now is that we don't think Flacco is an "Elite" QB and the fact is...HE ISN'T.

Whenever I hear him whine during his interviews it makes me want to punch a baby. He is the one that threw the term Elite out there when referring to HIMSELF.

He is a decent QB period. Is he a Mark Sanchez? Hell NO. Is he a Tom Brady...Hell No. He has never thrown over 300 yards in 3 consecutive games in his entire career. In that 09 game he was 4 for 10.... FOUR FOR TEN!!! a Non Factor.

He has a great arm..we give him credit for that but he makes poor decisions sometimes.

We aren't knocking him, we are just saying he isn't Elite. why u so mad bro?

 

[Dscola]

Ray Rice? Harbaugh?

Rice had about 400 yards as a rookie in 2008. He wasn't a factor that year.

 

[Dscola]

Good post. And I agree. Flacco has been solid. And he's had some very good games against NE, so it wouldn't surprise me if he has one on Sunday.

The reaction here is to the notion that he has become elite. He is not at that level yet, though maybe he'll get there some day.

Excellent running game, top shelf defense, year in and year out, and no SB appearances (yet, though it could happen this year)? That means their QB isn't quite elite yet.

Did he really say he was "Elite" or did he say he belongs in the upper echelon. To me there are only 3 elite QBs.
Brady, Rodgers, and Manning.

 

[Dscola]

Since you chose to start your great stat debate in 2008, please allow me to remind you that that was the rookie year for Ray Rice and the team was built around him. Baltimore has always had a great defense and has always played NE tough. I don't think you will see any Patriots fans denying that fact. All you are harping on right now is that we don't think Flacco is an "Elite" QB and the fact is...HE ISN'T.

Whenever I hear him whine during his interviews it makes me want to punch a baby. He is the one that threw the term Elite out there when referring to HIMSELF.

He is a decent QB period. Is he a Mark Sanchez? Hell NO. Is he a Tom Brady...Hell No. He has never thrown over 300 yards in 3 consecutive games in his entire career. In that 09 game he was 4 for 10.... FOUR FOR TEN!!! a Non Factor.

He has a great arm..we give him credit for that but he makes poor decisions sometimes.

We aren't knocking him, we are just saying he isn't Elite. why u so mad bro?

Again,I never once said he ws elite. I said I don't undrstand the disrespect. Also Rice barely played his first year so your facts are wrong.

Do me a favor, go back and lok at Brady's first 5 years and pull his elite stats up. He was praised because he won, not becaiuse of his stats.

He had 3 superbowl wins, Flacco has been to 3 AFC championship games. Neither blew away the stats department.

 

[jb1095]

Oh and saying he isn't elite is not "Disrespecting" him. I don't see anyone saying he sucks at all, that would be disrespect.

We respect that he has the ability to play very well at times. We respect the ability that he can manage the game properly. we respect the fact that he three for 381 yards and three TDs against us in the past, but let us not kid ourselves, he is not Elite.

Could he get Elite? Sure, it is possible, do I think it will happen? NO

Your team only passes to establish the run game where other teams run to establish the pass game. As the defenses bring in extra DBs to stop Ray Rice, Flacco has had plenty of opportunities to throw it deep, like he has done many times this year. He might even have one of the best arms in the NFL (top 5 anyway IMO). Lord knows he has a better cannon than Brady does, but I, and probably many others, question his decision making and accuracy.

My guess is that his coaches do the same thing. Why else does he have so many games with less than 30 pass attempts. In that 09 game, he only had 10 pass attempts, that Has to say something about what your own coaching staff thought of his ability to lead the team himself. They have done that many times. Flacco has plenty of games with very few pass attempts.