Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by SVN, Jan 16, 2007.
That was a pretty good article on it.
Pretty much hit the nail on the head I think. I have to agree with him.
I don't know what is meant by "contrived controversy", but I have done some soul-searching the past 24 hours and my conclusion is that if anybody had come to Gilette and beaten the Pats in a super-charged playoff game where the Pats were the over-whelming favorites, and THEN that team who defeated the Pats would whoop it up on the Pats' team logo at mid-field, I'd want somebody to go and knock down those offending mocking triumphalists. I'd be damned pissed to see that.
So, if I'm feeling that way about the Pats I can understand how LT would feel about the Pats who war-danced on the Bolts' sig in their house. We shouldn't have done that. No matter what the Chargers did or did not do last time they came to Foxboro and beat up on us, they did NOT dance on our logo. Even if they did, we should not do it to them.
It *is* disrespectful to their team and the people who support them. It *is* insensitive to the fact that they were so hopeful that THIS was their year. Again, I can imagine if Brady had a career year, both Dillon and Maroney made the Pro-Bowl, along with Troy Brown, Chad Jax, Mankins, Light (bear with me), Bruschi, Sey, Wilfork, Samuel, and Jarvis Green, and then a team with only one Pro-Bowler came and knocked us off, then DANCED on the Pats' logo, I'm sure there would be some serious fireworks.
The guys who did that dance should write a letter of apology to the Chargers, and should congratulate them on being such worthy opponents. After all, it was the Bolts' worthiness that makes this victory so sweet. We should not spoil that by being disrespectful of them after we beat them. Winners must be gracious and humble. Otherwise they become resented and hated.
Sometimes people exaggerate things. Initially, the Chargers complained because of the mock Merriman dance (which I'm fine with) but a day after LT humiliated himself by his Belichick comments, the charge had suddenly been trumped upward to stomping on the logo and what not.
BEFORE the game ended, the cameras focused on LT on the sideline after the Kaeding field goal. The Patriots still had to come out after the try. LT was already pissed as he watched the Patriots celebrating across the field. As a matter of fact, he even said he took offense that they celebrated after a missed field goal.
Now, I agree that someone like Hobbs should be reprimanded if he's stomping on a logo or what not, but if he's only imitating Merriman's dance after a hugely emotional win, I can't see the harm. Hobbs already said he didn't mean any disrespect.
not to mention LT saying what example it sets for the kids ..that was hypocritical
Awful piece. As usual, King "agrees with everybody".
Different situations, Fogbuster. You feel that way because you're a fan of the Patriots.
We don't have a steroid abusing loudmouth picking against the opposition and leading a rally chant of "Opposing QB SUCKS!!!" prior to the game. Our players don't invent self promoting little dances to mock their opponents.
(well, I guess Ty Law did have his little ground sweep thing, and Milloy did have his Fist Pump, and Tedy does have his Crawl-slide thing... but still)
The Chargers were overconfident, ****y, and were celebrating on the sideline while the game was still going on and still in doubt.
I think that if the Patriots had shown such behaviour that you'd have a hard time backing them up with your support.
Just remember, you have to flip the WHOLE SITUATION to truly make the judgement call, and for that you have to imagine that you were a fan of a team with players that had shown disrespect during the game and prior to the game. It's hard for us to imagine that, but you gotta be fair to yourself.
OK, so as long as there was no ill-intent by the Pats. Since I didn't see any of this except on TV (the CBS feed) with LT suddenly running across the field, a very quick hand-shake with Kevin, then a bee-line to I guess Hawkins, and then somebody says, "You're better than that". I couldn't tell if it came from Hobbs or LT, but LT was clearly bent and kept it as he quickly exited the field. Others were trying to comfort him but he would have none of it.
So, if in fact the Pats did NOT diss the Bolts' logo, then no harm done. That's all I'm concerned about, whether we rubbed their faces in it, because that stuff ALWAYS comes back to bite you in the sit-down. You can take that to the bank.
Only dissing that freaky Merriman dance is no crime in my book. Good God, that is strange. Sorry, LT. You had a great year, one of the best, but you got beat by a greater team.
Good points all. Thanks for bringing them up.
The point I'm trying to make is that no matter how disrespectful the other team acts, we have got to stand above that. Got to. If Hobbs and the rest who celebrated say they meant no disrespect to the Chargers, the city or their fans, I'm good with that.
The problem is that it may not be good enough for the Charger crowd. The trick is to make them feel *good* about losing!! Make 'em say: "Well, we just got beat by a better team. We thought we had 'em out-gunned but they kept their cool and did what they do, and they just out-did us. End of story."
Then, you know you've won. (And it will be easier to beat them next time!)
Well, you're better than I am, I guess. I wanted them to all feel bad, since the team, fans, and media were all so Chargers-c0cky.
Just the trolls that came here were enough to make me want those fans to feel bad, but then when you add in Merriman and the rally folks chanting that Brady sucks, and cheering when Lights Out said he was going to punch Brady in the mouth.... Well, the pain they feel is the pain they deserve I guess.
But I get what you mean about not disrespecting the logo. I didn't see any of that in the network feed. They ran out onto the field, yeah, but it's not like the whole team lined up and peed on the logo or something.
They ran out there all over the field... I think that Tomlinson is trying to make this into a TO on the Dallas Star kind of situation is just reaching and stretching. Did some players maybe end up at midfield? Sure! That's where the players usually meet to shake hands. It's not that strange.
But this isn't one of those 'obvious disrespect' scenarios. When TO did that he had just scored a TD. He knew every camera in the stadium was on him. He ran to the star to disrespect the Cowboys and draw attention to himself and it was obvious that was his intent.
If Ellis ran out and did the shotgun thing on the logo it's still bad, but nowhere near the same thing as what TO did (more of a raw emotion thing than an intent to disrespect, I'd say). LaDan should just drop it.
The Chargers should be mad at themselves. It was their stupid plays that let the Patriots back into the game. You can stop a team from celebrating by winning the game. They should have thought about that before the Patriots were running onto the field as winners.
The one thing I really take issue with in that article is King's suggestion that somehow the stories about what Florence and Wade Phillips said after LAST year's game were somehow...what? MADE UP? "Well I was there, and all I heard was..." Well, Peter, maybe you didn't HEAR those comments. Does that mean they didn't occur?
Now I'm as big a critic of the Boston media as anyone, but I can't imagine MULTIPLE writers got together and decided to make up stuff that Charger players said in the aftermath of 41-17 in Foxboro. Why would they do that?
and it was tom curran who got those quotes...quite reliable in my opinion
King (whom I usually like) says he's watching everything on TV like most of us here. He brings in the stomping on the logo bit when from all I heard and read right after the event it was one player(Hobbs) doing the Merriman dance "in the middle of the field". Funny how the logo has now come into play, as BF80 mentions, as if that reinforces the disrespect.
It think Peter King is very overated as a pro football writer.. Comparing football to the gangs out there is a little harsh.. He does writes some good stuff on occasion, but most of the time he just writes hog wash..
I'd take King way more seriously if Lady T had kept it to one day of whining.... but then he went back and amplified on a second day. I'd just say "*** the Chargers, and *** their fans," but that's so... well, you know... heartless.
I think "round two" of Lady T's comments point to something King alluded to: however ugly Florence got in New England, this is a team that modeled itself after us, and to an extent idolized us. We and the Pats players might look at them as opponents and adversaries, but they were kind of looking at us like their daddy.
So we're reading Florence's exuberance as what it sounds like -- but look at him as the ill-mannered kid that just beat the old man for the first time at some game. Yeah I could imagine you could make exuberance sound real ugly, if that's how you're raised... or it was just plain taunting. But from the gap in the Chargers' self-perception, and how they perceived our guys' actions, the implication is clear: If we do it, we're just kids having fun. You guys are supposed to be adults (the "classy team.") You're supposed to be better than that.
You know what? Maybe we should apologize to them, and maybe some Pats should strike up endearing new friendships with the Chargers. Let them keep thinking of us as their daddy. We're so sorry, Bolt Boys... daddy just got a little excited and danced on your logo. We'll be extra-careful next time.
I think Lady Tom is more than anything put out that his idols are crashing to the ground, by virtue of having beaten his team and enjoyed it, instead of riding off into the sunset to be replaced by the new ascendent Chargers dynasty. I'm sure he had it all planned, how classy he'd be, how he'd talk about how the Chargers admired the hell out of us and looked to us as the model.
Well ya know what? I'm okay with players being role models for kids. But we don't need to be Lady T's role model.
Just Tuesday Morning Quarterbacking,
There were 3 Chargers "logos" on that field Sunday, one in the center (on a helmet) and one on each side of the field from the 20 to the 30 yard lines. Taken together, it would be hard to celebrate anywhere on the field and not be "on their logo", right?
Check it out:
Hey Peter King -- BITE ME
I could not possibly care any less about this whole 'issue'.
And frankly, I fail to see why the hell anyone else cares besides a few Chargers who are diverting attention from their humiliating defeat.
Just get over it already. One player does a silly dance for five seconds, and the national media is talking about it like it is newsworthy?
Do you watch much football? Every time a team wins a game at the last second, home or away, the teams run out on the field and celerate. The players are at midfield on the sidelines, so where do you think they are when they run on the field? Tomlinson commplained about doing Merrimans dance, not the logo. The logo talk came the next day.
You can say every victory celebration is disrespectful. Every time a visiting team wins the conference title they walk around the field holding up the trophy, displaying it to everyone. Is that disrespectful?
This is football, not tennis. Go watch the Australian Open if you haven't the temperment to watch football.
As that dude said on First and Ten: What's the difference between Tomlinson and a whiny puppy? Answer: Eventually the puppy stops whining. So should you.
Well, here's the thing. In fashioning themselves after us, they seemingly do not grasp the import of intangibles. Without them, the whole process is bastardized, creating a kind of Frankenstein monster.
They may get it right eventually.
Then again, they may not.
There is a link posted in another thread that had highlights from the nose bleeds including this ending celebration. It was ONE Patriot (Hobbs?) who did it. Not a team celebration. Wasn't planned, just excited. LT should apologize to accuse the whole team and BB, then move on. BB should talk to Hobbs and it's over.
Too bad the comments of a couple guys got dragged out so much.
The sequel's never as good as the original :rocker:
But seriously folks... maybe they just scratched the part about making every player lock down and focus on the game. I can count on one hand the times I've seen the Pats say or do anything other than (if anything,) overestimate a team, and every time it was after they won. Just got done watching some YouTube of Merriman at their pep rally - nah, I don't think that would happen even if the Pats did do one.
So yep, the intangibles are sort of line-itemed out of the role-model thing.
Oh by the way... one team is trying to stir up trouble because we're classless, and fans across the league are p.o.'d because we're "boring..."? Let's stop fooling around. This is jealousy wearing different disguises. LT just took it so hard because we're what he wants to become, and he's just been reminded in no uncertain terms that there's not a vacancy for "new dynasty" at the moment (at least not for SD.) We're not just "wow, those great guys in NE," we're a real football team which kicked your butt when it counted.
Awesome post, that is exactly what I have been thinking.
Separate names with a comma.