Pats vs Browns Pre Game Discussion

[JackBauer]

On defense? Find wherever Billy Yates is and send all your blitzers his way.

 

[karran_s]

Cleveland sucks in the sports world - baseball, basketball (that's why LeBron quit, as he didn't believe he could win a championship there) and of course, football under man-genius ...

Well, they do have a couple of weapons but as people have pointed out, this is NOT a high scoring offense. If we get an early lead on them, you can stick a fork in them well before the 3rd quarter IMO.

Also, I don't think this game matters (win or lose) vs the games we are going to play - against the Steelers and the Colts. I think the toughest game we'll play will be against the Steelers and that would be the test I would be looking for in terms of how good our post Moss offense really is. If we win that game, I think this team will really begin to believe they can win it all.

 

[memento]

This will be a dangerous game that I think we will win regardless.

We have won the last five in large part because of our radical change on offense. Sooner or later someone is going to develop a blueprint to stop it and the rest of the league will copy it (as has happened to the Saints).

Probably the team in the best position to do it is the Browns- coming off a bye week and having someone like Mangini who is good at breaking down tape.

Their offense is anemic however, and I think that will be the difference.

Very good point. We play more 2 TE sets these days, similar to 2004-2006 with Watson and Mangini.

I hate to take the emotional angle, but I think Bellichick is driven to win this game. Not just because it's Mangini, but there is probably some residual frustration from his time with the Browns.

Watson is their number one threat. I liked Watson when he was here, and he's gotten better in Cleveland. Make sure Watson is bumped/covered, force McCoy to toss it up to his wide outs.

 

[lostjumper]

On defense? Find wherever Billy Yates is and send all your blitzers his way.

This should be the focal point for the Pats D. That guy sucks.

 

[Uncle Rico]

I find it odd that only Jaws picked Detroit to beat the Jest. Detroit could very well mop up the floor with them, though I think a 10 point win is more likely.



As hard as it is to believe, the Bills are an NFL team and the Pats did beat them on the road last year in North America.

Ha! yeah, forgot that one. Carried away. Still the point remains -- the change in road performance this year is nice to see.

 

[mgcolby]

Did I say that? I was talking about expectations. Right now expectations for the Patriots are high, and rightfully so after a very good start to the season. I'll I'm saying is that those expectations should be significantly tempered if they do lose to what should be an inferior team. Now upsets do happen, but you just can't pretend like it wouldn't be a bad lose and that it never happened.

That is exactly what you said. Your logic is that if we don't beat the Browns soundly then we have no chance of beating the Steelers or the Colts. Yet, the Browns destroyed the Saints and then the next week the Saints beat the Steelers. So by your own logic losing to the Browns would actually enhance our chances against the Steelers.


Each Sunday in the NFL is its own entity. Losing to the Browns wouldn't be a bad loss, they are a good football team. The only people that fail to realize this are the people that haven't watched them play this season. Are they world beaters, SB favorites? Of course not but they will show up to play on Sunday and the Patriots won't have a cakewalk.

 

[BSR]

That is exactly what you said. Your logic is that if we don't beat the Browns soundly then we have no chance of beating the Steelers or the Colts. Yet, the Browns destroyed the Saints and then the next week the Saints beat the Steelers. So by your own logic losing to the Browns would actually enhance our chances against the Steelers.

That isn't what I said, nor can it reasonable be implied from what I said. I said:

"If we don't beat them soundly then we probably aren't very good this year and shouldn't expect to beat either Pittsburgh or Indy."​

Notice the words "probably" and "expect". Do you see how that is different from "no chance of Beating"? My post has nothing to do with the effect one game has on another. It only implies a measure of the Patriots quality if they happen to lose to Cleveland. My inference is that the Browns aren't very good and losing to them wouldn't be a good indicator for us. Which leads us to...

Each Sunday in the NFL is its own entity. Losing to the Browns wouldn't be a bad loss, they are a good football team. The only people that fail to realize this are the people that haven't watched them play this season. Are they world beaters, SB favorites? Of course not but they will show up to play on Sunday and the Patriots won't have a cakewalk.

No, they are not a good football team. There is nothing to indicate that. They have a rookie QB making his third start. An anemic offense and a defense with holes in it. At best they can be called average...and that is if you squint real hard.

The really ironic part of this conversation, is that you are trying to temper expectations against the Browns, and yet you jump all over it when I try to do the same with the Steelers. Its quite bizarre.

 

[Ron Sellers]

That is basically all I said. Expectations will go down. If Brady throws 4 picks and they get trounced by CLEVELAND are you going to ignore it and think we should be favored against Pittsburgh?

Despite people's efforts to portray them as a good team, they are not. They have rookie QB starting. They have a porous pass defense. This is a team that a good should beat. If the Patriots do end up losing to them then it is because of one of two things, a fluke or they aren't as good as we thought they were. We won't be able to tell which one is the case until the rest of the season plays out but the question will be there.

Sorry, I misunderstood your original point; thanks for clarifying.

I agree, if the Pats were to lose - or win close, or play poorly but win - expectations will go down. As I mentioned and you pointed out, it will be reflected in betting odds - and the mood of fans of the Pats. But in the grand scheme of things it will have little or no effect on the following two games.

 

[buffalo34]

I have this weird feeling that this is gonna be an ugly, low scoring game. Patriots-Browns games are few and far between, and this is New England's first trip to Cleveland since what, 2004? Something tells me that this is gonna be a tough victory for New England. Maybe the Mangina factor?

If not, then I can say Pats blowout and none of you guys will be after me with pitchforks.

 

[IcyPatriot]

I have this weird feeling that this is gonna be an ugly, low scoring game. Patriots-Browns games are few and far between, and this is New England's first trip to Cleveland since what, 2004? Something tells me that this is gonna be a tough victory for New England. Maybe the Mangina factor?

If not, then I can say Pats blowout and none of you guys will be after me with pitchforks.

I don't think they can be overlooked ... and yes if they win it will be win ugly. I think our guys will be well prepared to quiet the dog pound.

 

[kkpat]

I am not sure why people say they are not a good team. Most of their games have been close and they have great RB. I saw some of their highlights. Even Steelers game is close. The Ravens game is close. Hillis seems to be great RB and can make great catches. Colt McCoy does not seem to be confused.

Remember Mangini is taking all the risks. Fake punt return for 63 yards. Kickoff throw to the opposite receiver that went for TD.

He has nothing to lose. He wins 9 or 10 games. He stays. He falls below .500. He goes. So he is playing with house money. He could care less.

Hopefully some of these plays will backfire and we score on those plays. Until some one stops them, he will keep doing crazy trick plays.

 

[jmt57]

Peyton Hillis Primed to Plow Away at Patriots' Line, Take Pressure Off Colt McCoy - Across Enemy Lines - NESN.com

Jeff Howe talks to a sportswriter from a Cleveland paper that follows the Browns, and a writer on a Browns fan site (equivalent to Pats Pulpit.) Here's a portion of that Q&A:

NESN: Why has Peyton Hillis played so well, and was this something you could see coming during his limited reps prior to the outburst?

T.G.: He's a throwback runner who delivers punishment to tacklers. Plus, he's decent catching the ball. He's a blue-collar player who has no fear. I didn't feel he could hold up over a long season with his running style.

C.P.: I remember how well Hillis performed in his rookie year with Denver, so when the Browns traded Brady Quinn for him, I was intrigued. During the preseason, Hillis was outstanding (he played the way he has in the regular season). It's not a surprise that he has had an outburst, but it is surprising how quickly Jerome Harrison fell off the radar before being traded. Hillis succeeds because he follows his blocks and always pushes the pile forward an extra yard or two after contact.


NESN: What has Ben Watson attributed to his statistical production?

T.G.: The tight ends are prominent in the Browns' scheme. He gets open and often is the QB's first read.

C.P.: There's one thing you can say about Watson for sure: No matter which of Cleveland's three quarterbacks are starting, they always target Watson. It shows they have a high level of confidence in him. Most of his catches come on the right side of the field for first downs. He has been a welcome addition to the Browns, especially considering the team's leading tight end last year was Robert Royal.

 

[shirtsleeve]

Injury Reports.

Not a lot of nuts and bolts or x's or y's so far. Just about bragging rights resting on this game and what if they win/lose stuff...

OK Browns:
It Is What It Is Browns injury report Friday: Colt McCoy to start

Pats:
It Is What It Is Pats injury report Friday: Deion Branch, Pat Chung questionable

 

[mgcolby]

That isn't what I said, nor can it reasonable be implied from what I said. I said:

"If we don't beat them soundly then we probably aren't very good this year and shouldn't expect to beat either Pittsburgh or Indy."
​

Notice the words "probably" and "expect". Do you see how that is different from "no chance of Beating"? My post has nothing to do with the effect one game has on another. It only implies a measure of the Patriots quality if they happen to lose to Cleveland. My inference is that the Browns aren't very good and losing to them wouldn't be a good indicator for us. Which leads us to...



No, they are not a good football team. There is nothing to indicate that. They have a rookie QB making his third start. An anemic offense and a defense with holes in it. At best they can be called average...and that is if you squint real hard.

The really ironic part of this conversation, is that you are trying to temper expectations against the Browns, and yet you jump all over it when I try to do the same with the Steelers. Its quite bizarre.

You make zero sense with your argument. Arguing that:

"If we don't beat them soundly then we probably aren't very good this year and shouldn't expect to beat either Pittsburgh or Indy."

Is exactly the same thing as saying:

"If we(Pittsburgh) don't beat them soundly then we probably aren't very good this year and shouldn't expect to beat either New Orleans or New England."

So I'm not really getting your point?


And the Browns have lost 3 Games by a combined 12 points to the Bucs (5-2), the Chiefs (5-2) and the Ravens (5-2). Two of those games were on the road. And they beat the Saints on the road with that rookie QB, and he didn't have to win the game for them.

How do you figure they are good if you squint? They have played a lot of tough teams and played them close. If not for Delhomme/Wallace throwing some terrible picks they could very easily be 4-3. That rookie QB played very well in Pittsburgh. He is making his first home start.

As far as tempering expectations. I don't think the Steelers is a guaranteed win. And neither are the Browns. I simply pointed out that your premise is wrong.

 

[jmt57]

This column focuses mostly on last week, but Steve Grogan also comments on Sunday's game:

Grogan's Grade: Week 7 - New England vs Minnesota

Now they have to play the Cleveland Browns. Do you think they're going to be looking ahead to Pittsburgh, rather than looking at Cleveland this week?

Steve Grogan: I think this is a game that's going to be really hard to get the players to focus on, and that's going to be the coach's job. They'll work hard to tell them how great Cleveland is this week, but it's the proverbial trap game. It's a game that you look at on film and think, "these guys aren't very good - this should be over at half time" but that usually doesn't happen. Cleveland jumped up and bit the Saints a week ago, so this is a game that scares me a little bit. Not necessarily because they're looking ahead to Pittsburgh, but you just figure this is a team they should beat easily, and a lot of times emotionally and mentally you're not ready to play the game the way you need to.

 

[JSn]

This column focuses mostly on last week, but Steve Grogan also comments on Sunday's game:

Grogan's Grade: Week 7 - New England vs Minnesota

I think he would be right, if they hadn't clobbered the Saints and then had a bye week. I have a feeling this group will be very motivated to keep that one loss from having any friends. They'll know darn well Mangini is going to go all out to beat Bill Belichick.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

I think this game will be the one where the Pats break out and play well in all 4 quarters instead of one..

If we get to an early lead in the first quarter, trust Brady and co to really pound them.. I'm expecting a big score from the Pats - a statement win to announce to the rest of the league that this team will be a strong contender and deserving of their current No. 1 position

Think we could break the record? We put up 60 on WAS in 07, we are capable of topping it but our style now is to take knees and go easy, don't know why.

 

[jmt57]

Browns DC Rob Ryan talks about his time with the Pats in 2000 and 2001 in a good column by WEEI's Christopher Price.

It Is What It Is: Browns’ defensive coordinator Rob Ryan reflects on time with Belichick, Pats

“I definitely learned a lot of football from Bill Belichick, and Eric (Mangini), for that matter. We were all together there and it was a great experience for me,” Ryan said. “[Belichick] taught me so many things about situations, and not that he just sat down and talked to me because he was running a football team. I’m pretty smart that way and a pretty good observer, I’ve learned a lot from good people and I learned a ton from him. I always admired him and the work he’s done in the past and since.

“Can I get in the mind of Bill Belichick? I don’t think anybody can. He’s got a proven track record, he’s a tremendous coach, he gets his players to play every week, he’s never had those problems that a lot of teams do have and I think he has great discipline with his team, just like we do here in Cleveland with Eric. It makes for a good working environment and it makes for a real successful organization.”

 

[jmt57]

How Will BenJarvus Green-Ellis Perform Against Browns? - Patriots Fan Forum - NESN.com

Of course, it's still early, but Sunday's performance was a definite positive for Green-Ellis.

The 25-year-old with many names rushed 17 times for 112 yards and a pair of touchdowns. He also caught a pass for 11 yards. It was just the second 100-yard rushing game of his career, though he did gain 98 yards against the Bills this year.

Obviously, with Brady under center, the Patriots aren't going to need an elite rusher to win football games. At 4.4 yards per attempt, Green-Ellis has been a very important part of the offense.

Still, it's unknown whether Green-Ellis can produce consistently. He was undrafted out of Mississippi and had just 100 carries coming into this season.

If he wants to answer some of those questions, it'll begin Sunday in Cleveland, against the 19th-ranked rushing defense in the league.

 

[jmt57]

It Is What It Is Wes Welker: Brandon Tate can be like Randy Moss

Welker, taking a page of out Bill Belichick’s “What could go wrong if you don’t play well” handbook, then referred everyone to the game in which the Browns beat the Super Bowl champion Saints in New Orleans, intercepting Drew Brees four times. And two of those were returned by David Bowens for TDs.

“Obviously they made some great plays out there and they do a great job of disguising and really hustling around to the football,” Welker said. “They’re a tough, hard-nosed defense. You have to bring it every single play and make sure you’re on top of everything.”

In other words, just because the Browns are 2-5 doesn’t mean they can’t win Sunday.

“It’s a team that, I wouldn’t say that they have nothing to lose, but they really want to try and keep you off balance and keep you off guard,” Welker added. “You’ve got to be ready for all those scenarios - fake punts, fake this, fake that. They’ve got them all. You’ve got to make sure you’re on your toes and ready for all blitzes and everything else they’re bringing at you.”