Patriots offered Mankins Top 3 Guard Pay

[MoLewisrocks]

Not a rube according to some of these posts...

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http://www.packerforum.com/packer-fan-forum/9999-draft-pick-signing-agent-information.html
From a 2007 Packer forum posting……
>>>>Represents coach Lovie Smith(not a smooth negotiation), The late Pat Tillman, Kelly Holcomb, Titans DE Anthony Dunn and rookie Ikaika Alama-Francis(Detroit 2nd round pick and son of former back up to Bart Starr)
The NFL Players Association and Sports Illustrated ranked Bauer fifth in their published list of the NFL’s Top 10 agents.
At one time represented 47 NFL players and 3 head coaches. This agent has not had any troublesome negotiations that I can find except for Smith.<<<<<
(Like I said it was from 2007)

The last first round draftee to hold out an entire season (back in 1987) was a QB drafted #6. Never did get a deal or a start. He was represented by Bauer, whose partner at the time was later charged with murder. This all came up when that WR was threatening to hold out all year on the Raiders a couple of years ago.

He also repped the SD 1st round running back who held out briefly this year. He was David Carr's agent prior to the draft until some other agent sent him a packet with some of Bauer's less savory associations highlighted. Carr dropped him, and it led to the rules on a 30 day waiting period before a fired agent could be replaced by a draftee.

Curran has another piece up where he wonders if Bauer's BS meter is off kilter. Apparently while he claimed that the Patriots asked if they could fashion a deal based on Evans deal, he also claimed he hasn't heard from the team since May 4th. Evans deal was signed on May 5th. Bauer isn't returning Curran's calls, although it seems he's talking to pretty much every other reporter who dials him up...

Mankins' agent stops making sense

 

[DaBruinz]

The line has been a very good OL. You dont need to disparage the line to support your position that Mankins is top 10 and not top 5.

Andy, where did you get that I was disparaging the entire O-line? I was asking him if he'd actually watched the line play. As for The line, it's been above average, but not very good. They've not been consistent, particularly in their run blocking. It's been an ongoing subject since the thrashing they took in SB42.

Whether anyone agrees or not isn't real relevant, because no one on this board has done enough film study of him, much less the other 9 out of that top 10 to reasonably rank him fairly.
Personally, I would say you are underrating him, but you are as entitled to your opinion as anyone and it is as valid as anyone elses, if, as you did, you can support it.
Box of Rocks may have a more informed opinion, because he breaks down every play, so he has actually seen what Mankins does on all of those plays instead of getting a general impression. But I dont know anyone else has done so.
My point being, its not really necessary to sink to the level of the responses you get to defend your opinion.

How do you know I haven't sat down and done the play breakdowns? I have a DVR just like BOR. I've even gone so far to get Steve Belichick's book, and using what AllWorldTE (PatriotsPlanet) has posted to see if I see the same things.

I said that Mankins was a Top 10, but not a top 3 Guard. How is that underestimating him? He's definitely not as good as Evans, Hutchinson, Snee, Kuper, or Blalock. They are all more consistent than Mankins has been.

 

[Ring 6]

'Twas a general question for my amusement. And you'd be surprised at how many people would disagree.

Very little surprises me here.

 

[Ring 6]

The last first round draftee to hold out an entire season (back in 1987) was a QB drafted #6. Never did get a deal or a start. He was represented by Bauer, whose partner at the time was later charged with murder. This all came up when that WR was threatening to hold out all year on the Raiders a couple of years ago.

He also repped the SD 1st round running back who held out briefly this year. He was David Carr's agent prior to the draft until some other agent sent him a packet with some of Bauer's less savory associations highlighted. Carr dropped him, and it led to the rules on a 30 day waiting period before a fired agent could be replaced by a draftee.

Curran has another piece up where he wonders if Bauer's BS meter is off kilter. Apparently while he claimed that the Patriots asked if they could fashion a deal based on Evans deal, he also claimed he hasn't heard from the team since May 4th. Evans deal was signed on May 5th. Bauer isn't returning Curran's calls, although it seems he's talking to pretty much every other reporter who dials him up...

Mankins' agent stops making sense

What #6 pick sat out an entire season in 1987?

 

[Ring 6]

Andy, where did you get that I was disparaging the entire O-line? I was asking him if he'd actually watched the line play. As for The line, it's been above average, but not very good. They've not been consistent, particularly in their run blocking. It's been an ongoing subject since the thrashing they took in SB42.




How do you know I haven't sat down and done the play breakdowns? I have a DVR just like BOR. I've even gone so far to get Steve Belichick's book, and using what AllWorldTE (PatriotsPlanet) has posted to see if I see the same things.

I said that Mankins was a Top 10, but not a top 3 Guard. How is that underestimating him? He's definitely not as good as Evans, Hutchinson, Snee, Kuper, or Blalock. They are all more consistent than Mankins has been.

OK whatever, pretend I didnt post anything.

 

[ausbacker]

The very best thing Mankins can do is fire Frank Bauer and get a competent sports agent. I suspect Mankins would have a deal done almost immediately if that were the case.

 

[Ring 6]

The very best thing Mankins can do is fire Frank Bauer and get a competent sports agent. I suspect Mankins would have a deal done almost immediately if that were the case.

I hesitate to critique because there certainly are a number of things that have happened behind the scenes that we dont know.
However, it seems that one thing that is reliable is that the Patriots made an offer and Mankins/his agent chose to reject it and go to the media to criticize.
Trying to be very neutral here, it seems that almost every major deal the Patriots have signed a player to involved an initial offer that was countered and then altered.
I would imagine that the agents job would be to propose a counter offer and begin negotiating rather than to tell his client to complain in the media, wait a month and do it himself.
Whether he is a competant agent or not, it seems he isnt serving this client very well. After all, if we believe everything the agent says, then he should have brokered a trade by now

 

[upstater1]

I editted this because the quoted part included the post i was respoding to as part of mine.
What does what may have happened if another team drafted him have to do with anything?
Are you trying to say he owes something to the Patriots for drafting him instead of letting him fall to the 2nd? Thats silly IMO.

I can't help you if you're asking me to reconstruct the context of a pretty simple post that I agreed with. Basically, the gist of it was that Mankins' career was made in large part because of where he landed. He made more money (a little or a lot) and was more successful. Even looking at the Pro Bowl in the last 5 years, there have only been 2 guards out of a potential 30 who made the PB from non-playoff teams (Davin Joseph of Tampa and Brian Waters of KC). I'm not saying he owes them something, but he's damn lucky the Patriots took him at 32. I'm pretty confident that he wouldn't be in position he is in today if he only gotten a 3 year deal after being drafted in the early second by these teams: San Francisco 49ers, Cleveland Browns, Miami Dolphins, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Detroit Lions, Oakland Raiders, Chicago Bears, Buffalo Bills.

 

[Ring 6]

I can't help you if you're asking me to reconstruct the context of a pretty simple post that I agreed with. Basically, the gist of it was that Mankins' career was made in large part because of where he landed. He made more money (a little or a lot) and was more successful. Even looking at the Pro Bowl in the last 5 years, there have only been 2 guards out of a potential 30 who made the PB from non-playoff teams (Davin Joseph of Tampa and Brian Waters of KC). I'm not saying he owes them something, but he's damn lucky the Patriots took him at 32. I'm pretty confident that he wouldn't be in position he is in today if he only gotten a 3 year deal after being drafted in the early second by these teams: San Francisco 49ers, Cleveland Browns, Miami Dolphins, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Detroit Lions, Oakland Raiders, Chicago Bears, Buffalo Bills.

Are you saying that should factor into negotiations?

 

[ausbacker]

I hesitate to critique because there certainly are a number of things that have happened behind the scenes that we dont know.
However, it seems that one thing that is reliable is that the Patriots made an offer and Mankins/his agent chose to reject it and go to the media to criticize.
Trying to be very neutral here, it seems that almost every major deal the Patriots have signed a player to involved an initial offer that was countered and then altered.
I would imagine that the agents job would be to propose a counter offer and begin negotiating rather than to tell his client to complain in the media, wait a month and do it himself.
Whether he is a competant agent or not, it seems he isnt serving this client very well. After all, if we believe everything the agent says, then he should have brokered a trade by now

That's exactly why Mankins should be looking for a new agent. Regardless of his position with the Patriots, the demand for a guard of Mankins "perceived" quality should have necessitated the need to create a market for his services, one that would see him remunerated to his desired sum.

The fact that Bauer has ostracized the Patriots, allowed Mankins to go public with strong comments and not secure either a trade or a deal for Mankins after 4 months screams out an inept sports agent in Bauer for mine.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

What #6 pick sat out an entire season in 1987?

Kid named Kelly Stouffer - a QB drafted by ST. Louis.

 

[Ring 6]

Kid named Kelly Stouffer - a QB drafted by ST. Louis.

Wow, I totally forgot that. That was the replacement player year too, probably had a lot to do with it.

 

[Kontradiction]

The very best thing Mankins can do is fire Frank Bauer and get a competent sports agent. I suspect Mankins would have a deal done almost immediately if that were the case.

Why? It's a little obvious that Mankins wants to be one of, if not THE, highest paid guards in the NFL. What makes you think that the Pats would offer him that amount of money if he changed agents?

 

[Ring 6]

Why? It's a little obvious that Mankins wants to be one of, if not THE, highest paid guards in the NFL. What makes you think that the Pats would offer him that amount of money if he changed agents?

Well, its being reported that their first offer would have made him the 3rd highest paid G in the NFL.
I think if he feels he should get more, you would want to negotiate from there, not burn your bridges with no options.
If in fact there is no way to make a deal (I dont know how that could be if they never even countered) he should be forcing a trade not whining that the team is in the 80s wont do anything and saying 'people usually work these things out'.
How much is he doing for his client lamenting that the status quo sucks and doing absoluely nothing to change it?
Regardless of where you stand on the situation his agent ought to be doing SOMETHING.

 

[stinkypete]

This whole situation confounds me. Mankins is a guard, he's damn good guard, but you don't pay a guard $8-$10 million a year unless you got John Hannah on our hands. Mankins is very good, he's not special. He's not a top 10 offensive lineman. He's replaceable.

I'd not be surprised to see Seymour/Branch style trade in a few weeks. Start stockpiling 2nd round picks for the 2012 draft!

 

[Kontradiction]

Well, its being reported that their first offer would have made him the 3rd highest paid G in the NFL.
I think if he feels he should get more, you would want to negotiate from there, not burn your bridges with no options.
If in fact there is no way to make a deal (I dont know how that could be if they never even countered) he should be forcing a trade not whining that the team is in the 80s wont do anything and saying 'people usually work these things out'.
How much is he doing for his client lamenting that the status quo sucks and doing absoluely nothing to change it?
Regardless of where you stand on the situation his agent ought to be doing SOMETHING.

I agree that Bauer isn't doing the best by him. But changing agents isn't going to make the Pats approach him with the same amount of money that Jahri Evans got or more.

 

[Ring 6]

I agree that Bauer isn't doing the best by him. But changing agents isn't going to make the Pats approach him with the same amount of money that Jahri Evans got or more.

I realized after i posted that you were responding to 'he would be signed already'

I do think though that the difference between the offer and Evans' and what the offer could be negotiated up to, would be far off of Evans' and given the way contracts are now, give some take some and in some way you can feel it is as good (whether its 3 year value, guaranteed, avg per year, etc, etc)
I find it very hard to believe that if the deal that we hear was on the table was negotiated that they would have ended up very far apart.
The first word of Mankins contract talks and Wilfork contracts talks were remarkbly similar. The difference: Wilforks guy actually went to work negotiating instead of expecting the team to give him an offer better than he was going to ask for to start with.

 

[ausbacker]

Why? It's a little obvious that Mankins wants to be one of, if not THE, highest paid guards in the NFL. What makes you think that the Pats would offer him that amount of money if he changed agents?

It's not a particularly difficult task to frame a market of prospective buyers for a perennial pro-bowl guard given it's been reported that the Patriots were willing to make Mankins a top ten or a top three paid guard depending on which source you chose to reference. I never said the Patriots had to offer Mankins more money, more he may be able to find it elsewhere or at the every least garner better lines of communication given Bauer has stated the closed lines of communication between he and the Patriots.

Bauer hasn't been able to orchestrate at the very least a trade for Mankins in 4 months and counting. What about that screams out to you competent?

 

[upstater1]

Mankins is definitely taking a huge chance.

If there's a lockout, his decision will be considered absurd.

Two years without a paycheck, and then he's offering up his skills as a 31 year old guard who missed two seasons and hasn't played football in that time.

On the free agent market, how much would you pay this guy if your an a football team? More than the $7 million the Patriots offered him?

Why is he doing this? After taxes/commission, we're talking a few hundred thou a year difference.

I don't get it, why would he take such a risk.

Seriously, if there's a lockout, how much do you pay a 31 year old guard two years removed from football?

 

[Kontradiction]

It's not a particularly difficult task to frame a market of prospective buyers for a perennial pro-bowl guard given it's been reported that the Patriots were willing to make Mankins a top ten or a top three paid guard depending on which source you chose to reference. I never said the Patriots had to offer Mankins more money, more he may be able to find it elsewhere or at the every least garner better lines of communication given Bauer has stated the closed lines of communication between he and the Patriots.

Bauer hasn't been able to orchestrate at the very least a trade for Mankins in 4 months and counting. What about that screams out to you competent?

I hear you on this, but it takes two to tango. With so many unknown factors involved in this, what makes you think that the Pats would be willing to consider a trade for Mankins at this point?