Patriots, Colts differ from rest at draft time

[Brarrell]

Pretty good article from Gosselin. http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...rgosselin/stories/050408goosecol.336d06f.html

 

[State]

When there's as much talent as the Colts and Pats possess, what's the point of drafting the best availably player in order to enrich another team who'll claim him on waivers? The pieces, though they may look pretty, have to fit together with the puzzle.

That's why these teams are the top in the NFL. Other teams are playing catch-up, as the respective divisions are doing.

 

[patchick]

Perfectly fine article, but statements like this always bug the crap out of me:

"Coach Bill Belichick, whose roots are on special teams, drafted UCLA safety Matt Slater in the fifth round. That was a reach on my board. I had him in the sixth."

Come on, does anybody really think taking a player at 153 who's "projected" to go at 173 is a REACH?

 

[JoePats]

Come on, does anybody really think taking a player at 153 who's "projected" to go at 173 is a REACH?

And the same thing with O'Connell.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

When there's as much talent as the Colts and Pats possess, what's the point of drafting the best availably player in order to enrich another team who'll claim him on waivers? The pieces, though they may look pretty, have to fit together with the puzzle.

That's why these teams are the top in the NFL. Other teams are playing catch-up, as the respective divisions are doing.

imagine what kind of team we would have if we combine both the patriots and colts. of course, peyton would be on the bench and tony dungy the defensive coordinator.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

The article reminds me of this line from Scott's bio....

Pioli's primary personnel objective is to build a team, not to simply collect individual talent.

 

[spacecrime]

imagine what kind of team we would have if we combine both the patriots and colts. of course, peyton would be on the bench and tony dungy the defensive coordinator.

defensive coordinator of the jets, maybe.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Perfectly fine article, but statements like this always bug the crap out of me:

"Coach Bill Belichick, whose roots are on special teams, drafted UCLA safety Matt Slater in the fifth round. That was a reach on my board. I had him in the sixth."

Come on, does anybody really think taking a player at 153 who's "projected" to go at 173 is a REACH?

But that's the point of the sentence -- as I read it, he's saying that the fact that it was a reach "on my board" doesn't make it a bad pick.

 

[Deus Irae]

Another similarity among the two teams is that the Colts target players other teams won't want, and the Patriots target players to do thing other teams won't want them to do. It changes the way they can use the draft.

The Colts are looking for undersized players all over the place, while most teams are looking to avoid exactly those kinds of players. This gives Polian a vast pool of talent to choose from before it's been picked over.

The Patriots are looking for defenders who can play a 3-4, are often converts from other positions, and have a certain mentality. They don't have the luxury that they used to have, because several other teams have now switched to the 3-4 and are looking at the same pool of players that the Patriots are, which is probably a good part of the reason that the team is now looking for linebackers in the draft instead of among the young veterans of the league. This actually puts the Colts in a position of having and advantage over the Patriots. Fortunately, the Patriots have Brady, Welker, Moss and Belioli. It should be an interesting 5+ years as Manning and Brady battle it out for the rest of their careers.

 

[BradyFTW!]

imagine what kind of team we would have if we combine both the patriots and colts. of course, peyton would be on the bench and tony dungy the defensive coordinator.

Interesting hypothetical, let's run with it. I have all the respect in the world for the Colts, and don't arbitrarily hate them like a lot of people on this board, but I have to wonder how many Colts could crack the starting offense of a line lineup composed of both teams. Probably Wayne, Ugoh, Addai, Clark maybe. Saturday would be a close one. Anyone else? How about defense? Doesn't really mean much, obviously, since depth wins games either way, but still fun to think about.

 

[jbb9s]

Are you guys surprised that the Patriots haven't taken more late round picks and packaged them together for 2nd/3rd rounders as they obviously don't have enough roster spots for all the guys they are drafting late (notably last year when I only think 2 guys are even in the equation next year if that - Richardson could be out with two new rookie DBs meaning only the 1st round pick is even on the roster).

 

[bradmahn]

Interesting hypothetical, let's run with it. I have all the respect in the world for the Colts, and don't arbitrarily hate them like a lot of people on this board, but I have to wonder how many Colts could crack the starting offense of a line lineup composed of both teams. Probably Wayne, Ugoh, Addai, Clark maybe. Saturday would be a close one. Anyone else? How about defense? Doesn't really mean much, obviously, since depth wins games either way, but still fun to think about.

This is an exercise in futility and is pretty dumb because of the huge discrepancies in scheme (offensive and defensive), so here it goes...

Wayne has a place on this team (the Patriots), but you're going to have to prove to me that Ugoh is better than Light at this point in their careers and that Addai's precipitous fall and lack of production at the end of the season was something less serious than what the results show (while his counterpart was playing extremely well). There is no denying Clarke is a tremendous receiver but his blocking has a lot to be desired and isn't asked to do much of that. I don't think he'd be a great fit for what the Pats want from their tight ends.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Are you guys surprised that the Patriots haven't taken more late round picks and packaged them together for 2nd/3rd rounders as they obviously don't have enough roster spots for all the guys they are drafting late (notably last year when I only think 2 guys are even in the equation next year if that - Richardson could be out with two new rookie DBs meaning only the 1st round pick is even on the roster).

I tend to think if the Pats could trade a 5+6+7 round pick for a 2nd round pick they would take it in a heartbeat. But I can't imagine anybody being willing on the other side.

 

[patchick]

But that's the point of the sentence -- as I read it, he's saying that the fact that it was a reach "on my board" doesn't make it a bad pick.

That would be a fine point if a guy he projected to go in the 6th went in the 3rd, a relatively meaningful difference. But 6th vs. 5th simply isn't a "reach" at all, on his board or anyplace else. Once you're out of the top few rounds everybody has loads of question marks. It's just silly to pretend that it's a reach by ANY standard to take a 6th rounder 10 spaces above or below where you randomly slotted him.

 

[Doonan24]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Michael Holley write in Patriot Reign that the Patriots pick players based on the best available in their eyes and not based on "need" or "fit"? This seems to go against this guy's point a little bit.

 

[mcsully]

Great article looking at his own draft work in a different light

 

[VJCPatriot]

Interesting hypothetical, let's run with it. I have all the respect in the world for the Colts, and don't arbitrarily hate them like a lot of people on this board, but I have to wonder how many Colts could crack the starting offense of a line lineup composed of both teams. Probably Wayne, Ugoh, Addai, Clark maybe. Saturday would be a close one. Anyone else? How about defense? Doesn't really mean much, obviously, since depth wins games either way, but still fun to think about.

Umm Colts Defensive players don't fit our scheme at all. Read the article, they focus on small, undersized, but fast. The Pats love the big dudes for their 3-4. LBers at 250, DE 300, DT 320, etc. The only players from the Colts D that might make the Pats roster are Super Bob Sanders, since the Pats don't care about size in their DB and the guy is just a ferocious hitter for his size, and MAYBE Freeney as a 3rd down rush OLB. I'm not sure he would be a starter, just a situational guy, likely since people would run on him all day.

The article makes sense. Yeah the Pats won't earn a good 'draft grade' because they 'reach' but they took the players that fit their team, so those guys will look a lot better on the field, which is what matters in the end. I think the writer 'gets it'.

 

[RayClay]

It's a great article. Rather than nitpick the particulars, why not try to get the point he is making.

Two great teams with few holes seek to find players that fit their schemes.

I do wonder about one thing...

Marcus Howard is woefully undersized for defensive end at 6-0, 237

A 237 lb. DE? I can't see that player holding up.

 

[RayClay]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Michael Holley write in Patriot Reign that the Patriots pick players based on the best available in their eyes and not based on "need" or "fit"? This seems to go against this guy's point a little bit.

Patriot Reign was written a few years ago. The Patriots need less players and the fit of those players is much more important. The Patriots don't use the same philosophy year after year because circumstances change.

Examples

Receivers in Brady's 1st year, a former ST specialist and third down receiver + a street FA.

Receivers last year Hall of Famer, former 1st and second round pick, slot receiver they gave up two picks for, high #2 still in reserve.

Offensive line then Woody plus a bunch of UDFA and scrap heap vets.

Now except for Neal, mostly high to mid round picks.

Then RB = street FA.

Now, transition from vet all pro to #1 pick.

Then LB Hardly drafted, never in rounds 1-3. Now, high pick and a 3rd +1 makes 3 in one year.

Then pampered superstar corner with huge salary. Since then, smart drafting and vet pickups.

etc. etc. The Patriots do whatever it takes to improve their team period.

To think they use the same strategy when talent is so poor they don't even dress all the allowable players (not sure what year that was), as now, when they are so stocked they have to watch salaries and contracts to keep under the cap, is ludicrous.

 

[patchick]

To think they use the same strategy when talent is so poor they don't even dress all the allowable players (not sure what year that was), as now, when they are so stocked they have to watch salaries and contracts to keep under the cap, is ludicrous.

This suggests a chicken-and-egg question with Gosselin's premise. Are the Colts and Patriots the best because they draft this way, or do they draft this way because they're the best? I.e., it's easy to go BPA when you have to upgrade every single position.