Pacman Jones reported as ready to appeal suspension - IDIOT!!

[spacecrime]

I'm sure his lawyer will argue that he has a right to work in his field and that the suspension was not related to anything that happened within the workplace. They'll say his bad behavior is beyond the scope of the employers right to prevent him from "earning a living." It will probably all come down to any specific morals clauses with the collective bargaining agreement that was in place when he signed his current contract.

This may not be the slam dunk for the league that we think it should be. I personally think he's a jerk and a thug, but I can see the "right to work" defense coming.

Well, he vioilated the CBA when he did not report the two Georgia incidents. If the lawyers go for not beong part of the workplace they will lose. Employers can fire employees for things that happen outside of the workplace, especially if they have a code of conduct.

If Chris Henry or Pacman Jones worked for the company I worked for, they no longer would.

I think the lawyers ought to go at it softer, stress rehab and helping Pacman rather than punishing him. Ask for probation kind of thing. Instead of one year with a chance at re-instatement, ask for 10 games (so he can get credit for 6 - one NFL year) that will jump to a year if he gets in any more trouble or fails to live up to a cummunity service agreement. As good faith the lawyers could up the reuirement for community service. SHow he is sincere.

This to me would have a better chance of working.

Those who keep talling about convictions, forget it. The policy is based on inappropriate behavior, not convictions. Convictions deal with legal proof. Inappropriate behavior could be legal and still result in suspensions. Gambling is one example.

 

[Clonamery]

Jones is right. The suspension was ridiculous. Sadly, far too many people think that it's perfectly ok to screw these players out of their livelihood for things that have nothing to do with the job. The guy's not in jail, hasn't been convicted of anything, and is being made an example of by a bunch of idiots who care far more about money than they do about the players who make that money for them.

I wonder how many people here think that they should lose their jobs just because they got into a fight in a bar, for example.

He screwed himself......he pushed the limit of outrageous and illegal behaviour as far as he could and now the punishment has landed at 10 games. He should adjust his lifestyle and his trouble barometer to keep getting paid as an entertainer. If he can't, find another line of work.

 

[DESERTPAT]

Why not appeal? Stranger things have happened than an arbitrator ruling the suspension is unprecedented. Everything he did to get himself suspended makes him an idiot, trying to lessen the suspension through the appeal process is a nobrainer he has to try.

There is no arbitrator. As written in the CBA he will have to appeal to the commish, since the commish handed out the punishment it is not likely that he will change his mind.

 

[Ring 6]

What arbitrator? There ain't no arbitrator! There is only the Commish who suspended him! And after saying to the Commish that he would take his suspension like a man he does a one-eighty and decides he's going to appeal. The one person who hears the appeal and rules on it is the Commish! His suspension will be upheld and there's now no way he won't serve the entire year because he just proved he's too @#$&% stupid to be allowed back early!
The moron just doesn't get it!!!

Of course he has options to appeal beyond the commissioner. He can challenge whether the commissioner has the authority to do what he did, whether its fair, whether it is legal to only be able to appeal to the person who made the decision, not to mention many options in going to court.

I'm not saying the punishment is anything but fair. But, he would be crazy not to appeal in some way, and the idea that he has no legal options is ludicrous.

 

[He Ban Me]

Jones is right. The suspension was ridiculous. Sadly, far too many people think that it's perfectly ok to screw these players out of their livelihood for things that have nothing to do with the job. The guy's not in jail, hasn't been convicted of anything, and is being made an example of by a bunch of idiots who care far more about money than they do about the players who make that money for them.

I wonder how many people here think that they should lose their jobs just because they got into a fight in a bar, for example.

It's got EVERYTHING to do with his job. NFL is huge, and what the Commissioner and the PLAYERS are saying is, he's gonna end up costing us all. Two infractions were for NOT REPORTING past transgressions to the team and the League. Anyone else ever get caught for that? If not, then there is no precedent. In the end, all of this is conduct detrimental to the livelihood of EVERYONE INVOLVED IN THE NFL. This sticks. Goodell IS the Aribitor in this, just like STERN was. See you for a review in week 10, PacMan.....wacca wacca wacca...

 

[DarrylS]

Part of the "boilerplate" of any collective bargaining agreement is due process, he has a right to appeal.. if he did not do it he would be stupid. When you do not exercise your rights during times like this, without exhausting all avenues of appeals is idiotic.

 

[PromisedLand]

Do we have any labor relations experts here?

I know that he is not an employee at will, which is what most of us who aren't covered by a union and collective bargaining agreement are, and that unless the employee can prove unlawful (i.e. race-based, religion-based or age-based) discrimination an employee at will can be fired at any time for any reason. Or for no reason. Likewise, he can quit at any time for any reason, or for no reason.

But this is not an employee at will situation. There is a collective bargaining agreement in place and a union. The thing is, the union is behind management on this thing. So I don't know where that leaves Pacman.

One thing is for sure, it will be very interesting to see how his appeal is resolved.

 

[VJCPatriot]

This goof actually thinks his appeal if he is stupid enough to try would change things and get him out of this years full suspension - NO WAY

Waste of time if he does,the suspension is signed,sealed and delivered but he does not get it,reality of what he does off-filed does not sink into that small brain of his-Goes to show you many atheletes get by with thier sport talent-NOT intellect.

Lucky he was not suspended for life and had to go to the Canadian Football League or worse,Arena Football!

Huh? It doesn't hurt him any to try to appeal the case. If you are in his position of being stuck not playing for a year and not earning paychecks of course you would appeal. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve what Goodell handed down as punishment, I'm saying he's got a legal right to dispute it. So long as his lawyer can come up with a decent argument, it's worth a shot. Those lost paychecks are worth a lot of money.

 

[DaBruinz]

Why not appeal? Stranger things have happened than an arbitrator ruling the suspension is unprecedented. Everything he did to get himself suspended makes him an idiot, trying to lessen the suspension through the appeal process is a nobrainer he has to try.

Supposedly, its Gooddell who will be hearing the appeal, not an arbitraitor. If that is the case, then Jones doesn't have a chance. And, honestly, he got LUCKY that Atlanta pushed the hearing on the incident there back into May. If he gets charged ther then he's done.

Anyone else think that he'll be seeing jail time for what happened in Vegas?

Other players who could also get slapped with suspensions include Jared Allen and Tank Johnson.

 

[DaBruinz]

I'm sure his lawyer will argue that he has a right to work in his field and that the suspension was not related to anything that happened within the workplace. They'll say his bad behavior is beyond the scope of the employers right to prevent him from "earning a living." It will probably all come down to any specific morals clauses with the collective bargaining agreement that was in place when he signed his current contract.

This may not be the slam dunk for the league that we think it should be. I personally think he's a jerk and a thug, but I can see the "right to work" defense coming.

Actually, many teams have put conduct clauses into contracts for a long time.

The problem here is that the league rule prior was that teams could only suspend a player for 4 games.

Also, there have been plenty of cases where people have lost their job for conduct outside of the workplace. More often than not, the firing is upheld and the people don't win a lawsuit for unlawful firing.

 

[DaBruinz]

Jones is right. The suspension was ridiculous. Sadly, far too many people think that it's perfectly ok to screw these players out of their livelihood for things that have nothing to do with the job. The guy's not in jail, hasn't been convicted of anything, and is being made an example of by a bunch of idiots who care far more about money than they do about the players who make that money for them.

I wonder how many people here think that they should lose their jobs just because they got into a fight in a bar, for example.

The guy has several charges pending. Both in Las Vegas and in Atlanta. Just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it won't.

It is ludicrous to say that Jones is being screwed out of his livelihood. Tell that to the 3 people who is friends shot in Vegas after he was a mroon for throwing 80 grand around a strip club.

OH, btw, there are plenty of places that you can lose your job for getting into a fight at the bar. You might want to pick a different example.

 

[g-fresh]

I don't people calling him an idiot for appealing, that makes no sense. He would be an idiot not to appeal, he has nothing to lose by appealing and any agent who would advise a different course of action is worthless.

I think he is right to appeal as well, as there isn't much precedent for the severe punishment he got. I would really push on the fact that Chris Henry only got an 8 game suspension when he has been doing all sorts of heinous things, it makes no sense that he would receive only half the punishment.

The guy has several charges pending. Both in Las Vegas and in Atlanta. Just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it won't.

This isn't much of an argument, by your logic Pacman could turn into a bird and fly away. Just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it won't.

 

[DaBruinz]

I don't people calling him an idiot for appealing, that makes no sense. He would be an idiot not to appeal, he has nothing to lose by appealing and any agent who would advise a different course of action is worthless.

I think he is right to appeal as well, as there isn't much precedent for the severe punishment he got. I would really push on the fact that Chris Henry only got an 8 game suspension when he has been doing all sorts of heinous things, it makes no sense that he would receive only half the punishment.



This isn't much of an argument, by your logic Pacman could turn into a bird and fly away. Just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it won't.

Guess you need to follow the stories on it. LVPD is planning on charging Jones in the incident. But that is all they can say. The Atlanta incident, they pushed back some hearing to May.

It will happen. Pacman has been a joke since coming into the league. He's constantly gotten in trouble and just because he's been able to weasel out of it until now, doesn't mean he hasn't gotten in trouble.

There is such a thing a CONDUCT DETRIMENTAL TO THE TEAM in the NFL.

 

[g-fresh]

Guess you need to follow the stories on it. LVPD is planning on charging Jones in the incident. But that is all they can say. The Atlanta incident, they pushed back some hearing to May.

It will happen. Pacman has been a joke since coming into the league. He's constantly gotten in trouble and just because he's been able to weasel out of it until now, doesn't mean he hasn't gotten in trouble.

There is such a thing a CONDUCT DETRIMENTAL TO THE TEAM in the NFL.

No matter what he deserves the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty. The NFL shouldn't be trying to supplant the legal system by punishing guys when they haven't been convicted of anything.

If the team doesn't like a player's conduct then they should cut him, simple as that. Pacman is a good player on the field, and the Titan's don't seem to care about what he's doing off of it. We've seen again and again that too many teams are willing to look the other way because the player in question can help them win a few ballgames. Maybe once these teams realize that its not worth it in the long run then the problem players will either straighten up or have fun playing in Canada.

 

[DaBruinz]

No matter what he deserves the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty. The NFL shouldn't be trying to supplant the legal system by punishing guys when they haven't been convicted of anything.

You really don't have a concept of the real world, do you? In fact, its pretty clear you have totally ignored what other people have said.

The NFL isn't trying to "SUPPLANT" the legal system. And YES, the NFL CAN punish players for conduct they feel is detrimental to the team or league. Instead of talking out your rear, why don't you bring yourself up to speed on. In fact, I am 99% certain that teams have clauses in player contracts about rules of conduct. It started thanks to that Bengal WR who was bad-mouthing the team about 10 years ago.

Its just like teams have RULES about what a player CAN and CAN NOT do in their free time. Many of them include sports like Sky-Diving, bungee-jumping and cliff diving. Some include things like motorcycle riding. And these are ALL things that the players have agreed to.

So, please stop with the bogus idea that the teams can't tell players what to do off the field. They can.

If the team doesn't like a player's conduct then they should cut him, simple as that. Pacman is a good player on the field, and the Titan's don't seem to care about what he's doing off of it. We've seen again and again that too many teams are willing to look the other way because the player in question can help them win a few ballgames. Maybe once these teams realize that its not worth it in the long run then the problem players will either straighten up or have fun playing in Canada.

Actually, Fisher has made it clear that he DOES care about Jones conduct off the field. Its why there were clauses in Jones' contract about reporting incidents with police to the team. Something that Jones didn't do on two occasions.

Also, since you clearly didn't stop to think about the workings of the league, Gooddell clearly stepped in to take pressure off of Fisher and the Titans.

Yes, I think it is very FAIR to make an example of Jones. He's a punk who has too much money to know how to act properly. Yes, that is partly the fault of the NFL and the NFLPA for setting up the rookie salary structure that they have.

Also, I think that you should consider that the NFLPA SUPPORTS the Commissioner's decision.

Jones deserves everything he gets, though I do agree that letting him be around the team only once a week is stupid. That part of the punishment should be changed.

 

[Gopats!!!]

Jones is right. The suspension was ridiculous. Sadly, far too many people think that it's perfectly ok to screw these players out of their livelihood for things that have nothing to do with the job. The guy's not in jail, hasn't been convicted of anything, and is being made an example of by a bunch of idiots who care far more about money than they do about the players who make that money for them.

I wonder how many people here think that they should lose their jobs just because they got into a fight in a bar, for example.

Saying these actions reflect the fact that they care more about the money than the player is wrong. If you don't care about the people you would let them run all around the place shooting everything up, beating women and getting high. As long as he's not in jail and shows up on game day and plays who cares? Yes, there are many people who would turn off the TV, but certain people don't care about that stuff.

Holding a person accountable and letting them know that they need to be a responsible adult does help the league (in my opinion), but in the long run it helps the player even more.

The NFL is very service oriented, and while some of it is public relations, I believe many truly feel compelled to help others. This is part of why the NFL is so much better than the other leagues. In MLB the union is strong and wanted its players to be able to get all drugged up. No one cared about anyone's health or well being. The NFL and players union is smarter than that

It seems that the stronger a players union is, the suckier the league. While I totally agree the NFL goes overboard on some stuff, I would say in relation to drugs and other such thuggery they are doing a decent job.

And as it has been pointed out already, there are many jobs where fighting in a bar can get you fired/warned. In many jobs where you have high visibility, what PacMan and Henry have done would have you fired several times over. Outside of Hollywood and Politicians, most people making that kind of money have to behave halfway civilized.

 

[mr3putt]

Saying these actions reflect the fact that they care more about the money than the player is wrong. If you don't care about the people you would let them run all around the place shooting everything up, beating women and getting high. As long as he's not in jail and shows up on game day and plays who cares? Yes, there are many people who would turn off the TV, but certain people don't care about that stuff.

Holding a person accountable and letting them know that they need to be a responsible adult does help the league (in my opinion), but in the long run it helps the player even more.

The NFL is very service oriented, and while some of it is public relations, I believe many truly feel compelled to help others. This is part of why the NFL is so much better than the other leagues. In MLB the union is strong and wanted its players to be able to get all drugged up. No one cared about anyone's health or well being. The NFL and players union is smarter than that

It seems that the stronger a players union is, the suckier the league. While I totally agree the NFL goes overboard on some stuff, I would say in relation to drugs and other such thuggery they are doing a decent job.

And as it has been pointed out already, there are many jobs where fighting in a bar can get you fired/warned. In many jobs where you have high visibility, what PacMan and Henry have done would have you fired several times over. Outside of Hollywood and Politicians, most people making that kind of money have to behave halfway civilized.

Spot on.

The NFL is a multi billion dollar industry driven by advertising dollars and TV ratings.

You have the combination of a new commisioner and the simultaneous "Perception" by the paying public that anti social behavior by certain players is out of control. You can call Pacman a scapegoat if you want to...but..he is a moron who acted beyond the pale and will pay a heavy price. No veteran mentoring stopped this punk from acting out so far.

It's a wake up call for those who think wealth and celebrity make you immune from censure. At least in the NFL.

 

[Deus Irae]

Saying these actions reflect the fact that they care more about the money than the player is wrong. If you don't care about the people you would let them run all around the place shooting everything up, beating women and getting high. As long as he's not in jail and shows up on game day and plays who cares? Yes, there are many people who would turn off the TV, but certain people don't care about that stuff.

Holding a person accountable and letting them know that they need to be a responsible adult does help the league (in my opinion), but in the long run it helps the player even more.

The NFL is very service oriented, and while some of it is public relations, I believe many truly feel compelled to help others. This is part of why the NFL is so much better than the other leagues. In MLB the union is strong and wanted its players to be able to get all drugged up. No one cared about anyone's health or well being. The NFL and players union is smarter than that

It seems that the stronger a players union is, the suckier the league. While I totally agree the NFL goes overboard on some stuff, I would say in relation to drugs and other such thuggery they are doing a decent job.

And as it has been pointed out already, there are many jobs where fighting in a bar can get you fired/warned. In many jobs where you have high visibility, what PacMan and Henry have done would have you fired several times over. Outside of Hollywood and Politicians, most people making that kind of money have to behave halfway civilized.

Again, are you willing to say that you should lose your job if you get into a barroom brawl? How about too many traffic tickets? A fight with the Mrs.? What if you were never found guilty of doing anything, but were charged? Can we then take a full year's salary away from you?

The guy was off the clock. It's none of the league's business. The Players' Union was stupid for ever allowing such conduct to even be looked at by the league.

 

[Gopats!!!]

Again, are you willing to say that you should lose your job if you get into a barroom brawl? How about too many traffic tickets? A fight with the Mrs.? What if you were never found guilty of doing anything, but were charged? Can we then take a full year's salary away from you?

The guy was off the clock. It's none of the league's business. The Players' Union was stupid for ever allowing such conduct to even be looked at by the league.

In my job the answer is yes, and I make a lot less than him, and I would not have had half as many chances as him.

The Union is looking out for the welfare of its players. You may call that stupid, but the players don't, and its their call.

 

[Ring 6]

Again, are you willing to say that you should lose your job if you get into a barroom brawl? How about too many traffic tickets? A fight with the Mrs.? What if you were never found guilty of doing anything, but were charged? Can we then take a full year's salary away from you?

The guy was off the clock. It's none of the league's business. The Players' Union was stupid for ever allowing such conduct to even be looked at by the league.

I think your argument has some holes in it.
It seems you are saying you wouldn't take a job that considered your character part of the job requrements. (Most do by the way) Or at least that you think it is unfair.

OK, lets say now that 80,000 people pay money to come watch you do your job. They root for your company, they support it by buying merchandise. You are now in the spotlight. Those people are human and they feel it is their right to criticize how you do your job, and how you live your life. (Kinda like how posters on this board call players who want a raise scum, or players who play poorly losers) They also have some level of morality that they factor in to the support.
To put up with all of this, you get paid $4,000,000 a year. In return for that, you do a difficult dangerous job, that is in the spotlight, and under scrutiny, and that $4,000,000 is ulitimately paid for by those fans who judge everything you do.
A lot of responsibility comes with that $4,000,000 a year. Do you accept the job? If you do, you accept the responsibility as well.