NFL's "fake" season 2020

[Kontradiction]

Moderna reports that their vaccine is 95% effective and can be stored longer than Pfizer’s. They’ll have +/- 20M units ready for distribution by Q1 2021. Moderna’s will likely be the vaccine distributed to the populace while Pfizer’s, which needs to be stored in freezers or dry ice, will be the vaccine shipped to the hospitals. The Dow has responded to that by rallying to near 30,000 points again today. States that reopened their economies and tuned out the kicking and the screaming of the constantly terrified deserve some credit for keeping the economy afloat during the period of uncertainty. We’re almost out of this.

 

[Joey007]

Oooh! Oooh! Did I say it was a fake season? Whoops, I didn’t really mean that after I watched the game last night.

 

[Joey007]

Moderna reports that their vaccine is 95% effective and can be stored longer than Pfizer’s. They’ll have +/- 20M units ready for distribution by Q1 2021. Moderna’s will likely be the vaccine distributed to the populace while Pfizer’s, which needs to be stored in freezers or dry ice, will be the vaccine shipped to the hospitals. The Dow has responded to that by rallying to near 30,000 points again today. States that reopened their economies and tuned out the kicking and the screaming of the constantly terrified deserve some credit for keeping the economy afloat during the period of uncertainty. We’re almost out of this.

Just gotta push through the winter based on the timeline they’re saying. We know could always go sideways, but I remain optimistic.

Hopeful for full stadiums next Fall.

 

[IllegalContact]

Moderna reports that their vaccine is 95% effective and can be stored longer than Pfizer’s. They’ll have +/- 20M units ready for distribution by Q1 2021. Moderna’s will likely be the vaccine distributed to the populace while Pfizer’s, which needs to be stored in freezers or dry ice, will be the vaccine shipped to the hospitals. The Dow has responded to that by rallying to near 30,000 points again today. States that reopened their economies and tuned out the kicking and the screaming of the constantly terrified deserve some credit for keeping the economy afloat during the period of uncertainty. We’re almost out of this.

please provide some details to this claim......no economies closed down.

my fear is those states you are speaking of are preparing to pay the dearest price in the coming months.......it's not just about the 'economies', but the longer term costs of all those hospitalizations in those places that 'reopened'......there are impacts coming we haven't even considered yet

 

[XLIX]

Remember that mortality is not the only measure of the virus's impact.

You are 100% correct. Thankfully it seems that a vaccine - 2 of them actually - is just around the corner. IMHO it is likely we will be able to have a normal 2021 football season. Although I am quite worried that NFL teams will follow TicketMaster's lead in requiring proof of vaccination in order to attend events.....

 

[XLIX]

Just gotta push through the winter based on the timeline they’re saying. We know could always go sideways, but I remain optimistic.

Hopeful for full stadiums next Fall.

I agree, but it is going to be a very hard winter. Setting aside the people who get triggered whenever someone compares Covid to the flu (some people just can't understand that making a comparison is different from making an equivalency), there is a lot of evidence to suggest that Covid is following the flu's seasonality - but on steroids. (It mostly depends on what numbers one believes are accurate representations of this past spring, but that is a debate I shall not engage in here). Hence we are seeing a dramatic increase as we have entered flu season. Daily cases, which are already significantly higher than ever, could easily triple (or more) over the coming months.

 

[Kontradiction]

please provide some details to this claim......no economies closed down.

Sure. Look at the major indexes YTD. All of them plummeted when states and the federal government issued lockdown orders. All of them began recovery in mid- to late-April as some states eased restrictions. Not that hard to figure out, really. Commerce resuming is good for the economy. Even if some states joined the party late. I remember people gave Florida crap over simply reopening the beaches. This was the debate that I originally took some time off of the forum because of. Here’s a read that backs up the claim if you don’t want to just take my word for it...

Five charts that track the U.S. economy as states reopen

As states gradually reopen, the U.S. economy is showing signs of life after one of the most significant downturns in history.

www.cnbc.com

Found through a Google search of “economic effect of states reopening” to avoid confirmation bias

my fear is those states you are speaking of are preparing to pay the dearest price in the coming months.......it's not just about the 'economies', but the longer term costs of all those hospitalizations in those places that 'reopened'......there are impacts coming we haven't even considered yet

Maybe. But that doesn’t change my original point. The states that resumed commerce the quickest at least deserve some credit for steadying the economy during that period of uncertainty.

 

[Tunescribe]

Oooh! Oooh! Did I say it was a fake season? Whoops, I didn’t really mean that after I watched the game last night.

Hey Sarcasm Boy: it doesn't matter how many games the Pats win, this season is a fake.

 

[Kontradiction]

Hey Sarcasm Boy: it doesn't matter how many games the Pats win, this season is a fake.

Have you consulted with the NFL record keepers and statisticians on this one and let them know?

 

[Tunescribe]

Have you consulted with the NFL record keepers and statisticians on this one and let them know?

They're in on the hoax. I plan to lobby for asterisks on everything 2020 but am not hopeful.

 

[Kontradiction]

They're in on the hoax. I plan to lobby for asterisks on everything 2020 but am not hopeful.

Send them a strongly-worded letter.

 

[IllegalContact]

Sure. Look at the major indexes YTD. All of them plummeted when states and the federal government issued lockdown orders. All of them began recovery in mid- to late-April as some states eased restrictions. Not that hard to figure out, really. Commerce resuming is good for the economy. Even if some states joined the party late. I remember people gave Florida crap over simply reopening the beaches. This was the debate that I originally took some time off of the forum because of. Here’s a read that backs up the claim if you don’t want to just take my word for it...

Five charts that track the U.S. economy as states reopen

As states gradually reopen, the U.S. economy is showing signs of life after one of the most significant downturns in history.

www.cnbc.com

Found through a Google search of “economic effect of states reopening” to avoid confirmation bias


Maybe. But that doesn’t change my original point. The states that resumed commerce the quickest at least deserve some credit for steadying the economy during that period of uncertainty.

you said: States that reopened their economies and tuned out the kicking and the screaming of the constantly terrified deserve some credit for keeping the economy afloat during the period of uncertainty.

which is different from anything the article says

if you're talking about the restaurant industry in certain states versus others, you'd have a point, but that's hardly the economy

your comment about kicking and the screaming of the constantly terrified means exactly what? is that what requesting to keep your distance and wear a mask means?

I've seen first hand the results of contracting covid everything from being out of commission for a month to death........you have a very cavalier perspective

 

[Kontradiction]

you said: States that reopened their economies and tuned out the kicking and the screaming of the constantly terrified deserve some credit for keeping the economy afloat during the period of uncertainty.

which is different from anything the article says

if you're talking about the restaurant industry in certain states versus others, you'd have a point, but that's hardly the economy

The article supports the effect that states reopening had on the overall economy. Not just the restaurant industry, but travel, flight, and hotel. They could have went further, sure, but commerce resuming on a large scale in multiple states has a benefit to the economy overall. That should be more than obvious. Like I said, look at the YTD of the major indexes. They all crash in March and begin to climb in April/May. This is when several states began to lift restrictions on businesses. That alone buttresses my point. I merely threw in the CNBC article in case you didn’t want to take just my word on it. There are more studies out there as well.

your comment about kicking and the screaming of the constantly terrified means exactly what?

States reopening was a very hard debated topic throughout the U.S. and many were vehemently against it. Many thought it was too soon. I shouldn’t need to tell you this. We saw it in the Pub on this very forum. You participated in all of those threads.

is that what requesting to keep your distance and wear a mask means?

Nope. I’m not an anti-masker. The mask debate is maybe the dumbest debate I’ve ever heard.

I've seen first hand the results of contracting covid everything from being out of commission for a month to death........you have a very cavalier perspective

Not really. I’ve known a ton of people who have gotten it mostly because they did dumb **** like travel to a foreign country or refusing to wear a mask when indoors. CURRENTLY, the following people that I know have it:

1) My step sister and her husband.
2) Her husband’s mother, father, and grandmother.
3) A close friend who just came back from El Salvador.

Recognizing that life and commerce shouldn’t stop because of a virus with a 0.007% death rate isn’t a cavalier attitude in the least.

 

[IllegalContact]

The article supports the effect that states reopening had on the overall economy. Not just the restaurant industry, but travel, flight, and hotel. They could have went further, sure, but commerce resuming on a large scale in multiple states has a benefit to the economy overall. That should be more than obvious. Like I said, look at the YTD of the major indexes. They all crash in March and begin to climb in April/May. This is when several states began to lift restrictions on businesses. That alone buttresses my point. I merely threw in the CNBC article in case you didn’t want to take just my word on it. There are more studies out there as well.



States reopening was a very hard debated topic throughout the U.S. and many were vehemently against it. Many thought it was too soon. I shouldn’t need to tell you this. We saw it in the Pub on this very forum. You participated in all of those threads.



Nope. I’m not an anti-masker. The mask debate is maybe the dumbest debate I’ve ever heard.



Not really. I’ve known a ton of people who have gotten it mostly because they did dumb **** like travel to a foreign country or refusing to wear a mask when indoors. CURRENTLY, the following people that I know have it:

1) My step sister and her husband.
2) Her husband’s mother, father, and grandmother.
3) A close friend who just came back from El Salvador.

Recognizing that life and commerce shouldn’t stop because of a virus with a 0.007% death rate isn’t a cavalier attitude in the least.

"States that reopened" (which you said) is grammatically different from "As states reopened" (what the article says)....they all reopened

it appears you take sides while the article does not

so who are the "constantly terrified" ..... I think you're confusing that with common sense.......remember this, in the end, those states that ruched to open and delayed restrictions and decided that everything should proceed as though there is no pandemic will cost the countr....I mean the taxpayer much more than those who attempted to take measures to control the spread....it will not have been worth it.....it never is

 

[Kontradiction]

"States that reopened" (which you said) is grammatically different from "As states reopened" (what the article says)....they all reopened

They all eventually reopened in some form or fashion. But not at the same time. For example, Arizona fully lifted restrictions on May 15 while California didn’t introduce a plan until August 28th. They still aren’t fully reopen. Georgia began their reopening April 27 and Florida began theirs May 4. Washington State didn’t begin theirs until June 4 and didn’t initiate phases 2 and 3 until November 10. Hence my point - the states that reopened the quickest bolstered the economy during the time of uncertainty. The big indexes and the timing of their rallies support that.

it appears you take sides while the article does not

so who are the "constantly terrified" ..... I think you're confusing that with common sense.......remember this, in the end, those states that ruched to open and delayed restrictions and decided that everything should proceed as though there is no pandemic will cost the countr....I mean the taxpayer much more than those who attempted to take measures to control the spread....it will not have been worth it.....it never is

What are you basing this on? 3 of the top 5 states in cases were among the latest to reopen and one of them - New York - has the largest amount of deaths by a wide margin. I’m assuming you’re basing this on some study, and I’d be interested to read it. Otherwise, I don’t see how this theory holds water.

 

[Tunescribe]

Recognizing that life and commerce shouldn’t stop because of a virus with a 0.007% death rate isn’t a cavalier attitude in the least.

I'm curious what death-rate percentage you would consider unacceptable and worthy of curbing "life and commerce" to bring down.

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm curious what death-rate percentage you would consider unacceptable and worthy of curbing "life and commerce" to bring down.

Probably something along the lines of the Influenza outbreak of 1918. IIRC that was about 10-20% mortality but you can feel free to fact check me on that one. I’m not sure what relevance this holds to the topic, though.

 

[IllegalContact]

They all eventually reopened in some form or fashion. But not at the same time. For example, Arizona fully lifted restrictions on May 15 while California didn’t introduce a plan until August 28th. They still aren’t fully reopen. Georgia began their reopening April 27 and Florida began theirs May 4. Washington State didn’t begin theirs until June 4 and didn’t initiate phases 2 and 3 until November 10. Hence my point - the states that reopened the quickest bolstered the economy during the time of uncertainty. The big indexes and the timing of their rallies support that.



What are you basing this on? 3 of the top 5 states in cases were among the latest to reopen and one of them - New York - has the largest amount of deaths by a wide margin. I’m assuming you’re basing this on some study, and I’d be interested to read it. Otherwise, I don’t see how this theory holds water.

Hospitalized care for COVID-19 averages $34,662 to $45,683, varying by age

Nationally, people aged 51 to 60 were charged the most, according to the FAIR Health study.

www.healthcarefinancenews.com

Texas California and Florida all have / have had either more than double or almost double the CoVid cases than New York. Texas and Florida both currently have more than double the daily deaths than New York ..... double the cases means double the hospitalizations ..... there are plenty of people in both Florida and Texas who lack the ability to cover the cost of a CoVid hospitalization ... guess who’s going to pay for it

 

[Tunescribe]

Probably something along the lines of the Influenza outbreak of 1918. IIRC that was about 10-20% mortality but you can feel free to fact check me on that one. I’m not sure what relevance this holds to the topic, though.

It's relevant to the discussion because you appear to believe a certain percentage/number of deaths is/are acceptable in lieu of limiting access to bars, movie theaters, sporting events and concerts.

 

[Kontradiction]

[unfurl="true"]News | Healthcare Finance News

Thanks. I’m glad she linked the actual study. I read over it last night and the rest this morning before work. Here’s a couple of key takeaways...

It is difficult to compare these results with previous estimates, because the latter have varied so greatly. In part this is because some estimates were based not on actual data about COVID-19 hospitalizations but on projections from cases of other types of respiratory disease.38,39 Even when a study was based on COVID-19 data, differences in data sources and methodology have yielded disparate findings. For example, one study based on Medicare fee-for-service data estimated an average cost per commercially insured hospitalization of $38,059,40 in the range of FAIR Health’s median charge amounts but higher than the range of FAIR Health’s median estimated allowed amounts.

There is no one profile of COVID-19 patients. COVID-19 affects all age groups, genders and regions and both rural and urban areas. COVID-19 patients receive their initial diagnosis for the disease across a spectrum of venues of care. Hospitalized COVID-19 patients have diverse comorbidities, and the costs of hospitalization vary. For each patient characteristic, there is considerable regional variety as compared to the national level.

And then from the article you linked itself...

Despite these estimates and findings, experts are still uncertain about the impact that the pandemic will have, especially on the healthcare industry.

There seems to be, at least from reading this study, a lower confidence interval about the findings. In other words, I’m not sure how you can say with any level of certainty that opening commerce earlier will directly lead to an increased burden on the taxpayer to foot the bill of hospital costs for the uninsured or those who go out of network. Further, the state of California was one of the last states to resume commerce and is currently considering sheltering in place again. They’re in the top 5 in cases and deaths. How do you square that fact while also making the assumption that states who opened earlier than them put their citizens more in harm’s way?

In summary, I’m not sure how you could make this argument with any level of confidence to dispute my original claim. It seems pretty straightforward. If you’re ages 51-60 and/or have a comorbidity, be careful, wear a mask when in public, and shelter in place if necessary. And FYI, I’m not saying you’re wrong here. You may be right. Time will tell. What I’m saying is that this doesn’t disprove my argument in any way with what we know right now.

Texas California and Florida all have / have had either more than double or almost double the CoVid cases than New York.

But not the number of deaths. New York, like the rest of the country, is seeing another surge. 3 of the top 5 states in cases and deaths were states who reopened the latest.

Texas and Florida both currently have more than double the daily deaths than New York ..... double the cases means double the hospitalizations ..... there are plenty of people in both Florida and Texas who lack the ability to cover the cost of a CoVid hospitalization ... guess who’s going to pay for it

The big corporations?