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NFL.Com: Cheap Veteran Receivers in 2011?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PatsFanInVa, May 16, 2011.

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  1. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    NFL.com news: In buyer's market, veteran receivers could be in for reality check

    Pretty interesting. According to these guys, money is drying up for veteran wideouts this year. Sort of a nice prospect, getting a quality wideout to complement the newly grind-it-out style the Pats have adopted.

    Of course, all wide receivers are head cases, including the one we just let go and will soon need a restraining order against because of the pining-for-bygone-days thing.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Logic FAIL. :mad:

    Metaphor EPIC FAIL. :bricks:
     
  3. TheComeback

    TheComeback 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    The only ones I would consider are Ochocinco, Steve Smith, and T.O. That's just based on ability alone--none of the other guys would be an upgrade over Deion Branch. Moss could help us quite a bit in the red zone, but I question his ability to get open downfield anymore without play-action.

    Ocho and TO are both headcases. Having said that, T.O. seems to have toned it down for the last few seasons, as far as I know, and he's still capable of being a #1 receiver. Never heard of a guy who works as hard as T.O. Even at his age, he's still game-changer. That said, I'd very surprised if BB ever signed a guy with his ego.

    Ocho isn't as productive as TO, but doesn't come with as much baggage. He could help stretch the field a bit, but people overestimate his abilities. He's very much on the decline and isn't really a big upgrade from Branch, if he is at all. If he doesn't get targets, he will just try to pull a Moss.

    Steve Smith is the third best guy in this group, and he'd probably be higher if he had a QB. But he's also a headcase, except his headcaseness involves violence AND ego. I think he's overrated, but would still be an upgrade over Branch.

    IMO, we're better off sticking with what we have and giving Price, Tate, and Edelman a chance to continue developing. Those guys are all talented. It's just a matter of putting it together.

    To those who continually pine for a deep threat, put it to rest. The best deep threat you can have is the threat of a running game mixed with some play action. In fact, I'd argue that's where most "deep" passes are made, unless you have a Randy Moss in his prime. Our tight ends, specifically Gronk, are more than capable of winning jump balls. So what's the big deal?
     
  4. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Pro Bowl Player

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    Derrick Mason looks more and more likely if we are going to sign an 'old guy',Mason probably won't be back in Baltimore.
     
  5. HomerSchooled

    HomerSchooled Practice Squad Player

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    It's weird that Santana Moss managed to put together a nice little season last year. Weirder still that he's probably the least interesting player listed.

    I don't think any of these guys would be upgrade enough to bother with the various attitude risks they bring. Owens or Moss could probably help in the redzone a bit, but it's not like it was an issue last year. Granted, Welker and Branch haven't really proven they can stay healthy for a full season, but Edelman and Price can fill in. I, like many, am excited to see what Price can bring.

    Though I'd welcome a young impact player, I don't really think any additions are necessary. With Welker getting healthier, potential improvement in the run game, and the youngsters gaining some experience, the receiving corps and tight ends have every reason to be better than they were last year.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2011
  6. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

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    Except for Troy Brown...

    And yes, cheap is good. Unfortunately, we were a bit short on wideouts, nevertheless, having role players and the system is just so much better than a "go to" guy.

    We need a young branch type, or similar, just a quick fast guy that needs double coverage, not somebody who demands the QB fixate on him.

    One versatile receiver that can go long sometimes.

    I give props to Ryan for his defense, but it still wouldn't have worked had we scored the 2 times we marched downfield.

    Still, 14-2 is not bad for a rebuilding year.
     
  7. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

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    Always liked Mason, but 37 is really old for a receiver.
     
  8. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

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    Oh no, I just looked at that list. More baggage than a Samsonite convention. No Mas, No Mas.
     
  9. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

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    Seems to me, if it's a buyer's market, you do your homework and pickup an underrated guy.

    Nothing like a guy with a huge ego, who's lost a step. Oy!

    Leave them to the losers who need a gate attraction.
     
  10. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    :confused:

    Welker didn't have an injury Week 17, and he played every other week. . . .
     
  11. FCB02062

    FCB02062 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    The Patriots try to go the "cheap, veteran" receiver every year and it RARELY works out. They don't want to spend the $ on a big time, big play FREE AGENT receiver, so we SEASON TICKET holder fans are left with guys like Joey Galloway, Sam Aiken, Torry Holt, Donte Stallworth, Kelly Washington, Reche Caldwell, Jabar Gaffney, Tim Dwight, David Terrell, Dedric Ward, Donald Hayes, Tim Dwight, David Patten, Aaron Bailey...wow, what a list of stalwarts there. Of these guys, and I count fifteen (and this comes right from the Patriots web site), I say four were even MILDLY successful pass catchers - Patten, Stallworth, Caldwell, and Gaffney - the other guys were camp fodder and turned into fifth receivers/special teams guys - yay! And, it's not like this team had great receivers all those years, so these guys couldn't even break out in an average NFL receiving corps most years.
    It comes down to these guys (Belichick, scouts, etc.) cannot evaluate wide receivers - see all these failed free agent signings and wasted draft picks (Brandon Tate, Julian Edelman, Matthew Slater, Chad Jackson, PK Sam, Bethel Johnson). They got Branch and Givens in 02, which was quite a haul, but of the 8 receivers they've drafted since Belichick has been in charge, only two have made considerable contributions. I'm not including Taylor Price because he barely played last season.
    Perhaps, and I really think this is more like it - Belichick does not "VALUE" the position. He comes from a tradition of having guys like Webster Slaughter, Michael Jackon, Mark Carrier, Derrick Alexander, and Keenan McCardell as his top pass catching wideouts in Cleveland.
    So, out of TWENTY FOUR free agent/draft wide receivers SIX have been effective RECEIVERS for the Patriots - that's a 25% success rate. I don't know how that compares to the rest of the league, but a supposed genius should have better than a 1/4 hit ratio...
     
  12. HomerSchooled

    HomerSchooled Practice Squad Player

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    Just trying to be pragmatic. He missed some games in 09 and some starts in 10, not to mention suffered a catastrophic knee injury, so it's not like he's invincible. With his style of play, I just think it's safer to consider the possibility he may miss time. That's all.
     
  13. DW Toys

    DW Toys In the Starting Line-Up

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    You will catch a lot of flack from those on this site who consider themselves "experts" but "the Stepford Posters" are mostly self serving followers. I like your thoughtfulness on this and agree WR has not been a comfort position for BB. That and passrusher/LB he avoids like the plague and he has been burnt.

    His drafts are mediocre and overrated over the last five years minus 2010 which was admittedly very special. I hope this year is good but I see a development LT, and injury prone DB whom I think very highly about and feel he is our Safety, a overdrafted RB who is the same as what we have in Woodhead, an over rated RB who had one signature game, a real good QB "value" and perhaps the best pick of all to do another Cassel deal and an OT who I think will be a starter for years but with medical + ST JAGS and two picks for next year because he is afraid to make deals this year....by the way...bad news babe....next year is shaping up as worse than this year. I hope this Draft turns out well but as you see, many questions. Why does he do that? Fear of making a bad pick. This "value" routine gets old.

    His record speaks for itself as best coach ever, but he makes it hard for himself when he tries to "Frankenstein" players instead of taking a player with superior talent already rated and studied by the other 31 Teams (whom some have also won Super Bowls) like he wants to prove something. Again a great record and career but we will never know if many players or trades he has made or NOT made in the past could have cost him just one more ring by now.

    He seems to have some good years with Trades and FA pick ups. I rate that skill better than his Drafts. The sleeper here could be Donte Stallworth. It seemed like he was not effective here but had 46 receptions at over 15 yard per catch in what was a limited playing time with the addition of Moss and Welker and he only started nine games.

    Stallworth is the youngest of that group. He has recovered for 2011 and he is familiar with the system here, He is still a deep threat. He won't break the bank and he is a good citizen who has had one terrible incident that he seemed genuine about. BB brought back Branch and Patten. One worked. The other not so much. If the CBA takes longer, having someone who knows what goes on here might work better.

    The other player I would not sleep on is Santana Moss. He is a very professional athlete and most productive of all mentioned in 2010. His has survived with a QB mess for years in D.C.

    IMO I can't see why everyone is so cavalier about the present WR roster. You have Welker who will be fine but the last year of his contract, and oft injured Branch and three unknowns. Certainly no real size to mention and no one to draw doubles. We have beat the Great Tate Debate to death. He is a JAG in my opinion, Edelman has been nicked but has great playmaking ability and the best shot is Price. Some of the numbskulls who say we don't need a field stretching WR are just plain nuts. If Randy Moss just stands there against the Jets it is a difference.

    How can anyone with any sense feel we are all set at WR? BB is not stupid. There will be one or more WR added. Kept for the start of 2011 when ever that is? Who knows. But this is not the final WR roster.

    I would take any one of those "cheap" guys for a year because we know Branch will be hurt. I think Tate is a 4th or 5th guy at best, Price could be a pleasant surprise, they need to get Edelman more touches but haven't and that leaves Welker. Yes the TE situation helps but we are talking WR position. Hernandez being injured in the playoff was catastrophic to the passing game and Crump is not the receiver he was.

    Still all set for 2011 receivers all those Cousins who feel we might be?

    I like your post sir. Good stuff.
    DW Toys
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2011
  14. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    TE/WR/RB starts is an almost meaningless statistic. Snaps is more important, and at those positions it was (1) GRONK [~75%], (2) Welker [~70%], with everyone else <55%.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2011
  15. HomerSchooled

    HomerSchooled Practice Squad Player

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    I readily concede I overstated the injury risk with Welker for the sake of a hypothetical situation. The point I was trying to make was that I am comfortable with our depth IF he were to be injured, and the additions to the receiving corps that some champion would be superfluous. So really, I didn't even deem Welker missing time enough of a concern to consider looking outside our own roster. I mean that as much as a statement of faith in Welker as I do those behind him.
     
  16. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    OK, fair enough. :)
     
  17. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 In the Starting Line-Up

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    big name WR's come with big egos and all ways want the ball even when they ant open Brady had one of the best seasons ever by a QB with out any big name WR's the passing game is realy not the problem
     
  18. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Pro Bowl Player

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    Yeah,but there is always an underlying problem that will eventually end the season EARLY again for Brady.....that is a lack of respect from DBs to worry about a WR getting away down the sidelines and blitz away.

    Since the 2007 version of Randy Moss,there has been no threat to worry about other than covering the short slot pass by the ILBs or Safeties to handle.

    Brady is fortunate to have talented players down the middle of the field but he really needs a proven downfield threat sooner than later because one of these times a blitzing corner or OLB not worrying about the bomb,is going to make Brady pay with his health.

    Having a TE like Hernandez as your only real threat to pick up a chunk of yardage is not the key to keeping Brady upright.

    Price and Tate havent proven anything...yet
     
  19. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 In the Starting Line-Up

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    there may never be a bigger deep threat in NFL history then Moss in 2007 and the giants hit Brady in that game more then he has ever been hit in he's career, with i think the pats need is better coaching come playoff time so they can get the ball in the hands of there play makers
     
  20. Sicilian

    Sicilian Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Brady was hit the 3rd fewest times of anyone in the league last year according to nfl.com. Clearly all these teams blitzing and disrespecting our deep threat didn't really make him pay with his health at all.

    NFL Stats: by Team Category
     
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