NEW ARTICLE: If Patriots QB Situation Falls Flat, Belichick Could End Up With a Serious Problem

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If Patriots QB Situation Falls Flat, Belichick Could End Up With a Serious Problem
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If the New England Patriots hope to salvage their season, they'll need to either go all in behind Mac Jones, or pray that Bailey Zappe just had an off night against Chicago on Monday because if not, Bill Belichick may end up with quite a problem on his hands.

The post If Patriots QB Situation Falls Flat, Belichick Could End Up With a Serious Problem appeared first on PatsFans.com.

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[Thelonious]

A simpler iteration of the questions raised here might be "What if NEITHER of these interesting prospects is good enough?" and there can be no fairer question than that. We certainlty should not blame Bill for rattling the requisite cages to ANSWER this question. We do need to know. Does Zappe have the skills for the job? Is Mac tough enough for the job? IF neither is up to the job, there remains the question, "Does this show, yet again, that Bill the GM is vastly less capable than Bill the G.O.A.T. coach."

 

[IcyPatriot]

IDK ...
IMO there is too much over analysis and speculation on the situation.
It's a process ... old school saying was at least 3 years to become a legit NFL QB ...
If he stays here for 3 seasons ... we will know ... meanwhile ... writers need to justify their existence.

 

[Ian]

IDK ...
IMO there is too much over analysis and speculation on the situation.
It's a process ... old school saying was at least 3 years to become a legit NFL QB ...
If he stays here for 3 seasons ... we will know ... meanwhile ... writers need to justify their existence.

What's a little crazy is that no one is talking about that (the fact it takes three years to find out what you really have in a guy) - everyone wants to make a judgment on the two immediately, with some anointing Zappe and already wanting to trade Jones after he's barely played 3 games during what's obviously been a difficult transition in his second year. The nightmare scenario would be for neither to work out, and we end up back at square one. Which is another reason it makes sense to root for both of these guys to develop instead of picking one guy and then dumping on the other and that's - unfortunately - been a thing here as of late.

 

[Toofy]

IDK ...
IMO there is too much over analysis and speculation on the situation.
It's a process ... old school saying was at least 3 years to become a legit NFL QB ...
If he stays here for 3 seasons ... we will know ... meanwhile ... writers need to justify their existence.

This... Mac should be the starter for this year for all remaining games provided health is okay.

If mac fails give zappe another two years while you try to accumulate assets .

Drafting a QB is more luck of the draw and very few have got it over the last 6 years .

Burrow, Lamar , Josh Allen and mahomes are the only elite ones.

Next rung is Murray, hurts , Herbert.

Dicey ones are tua, Mac, mills , Trevor Lawrence .

All others have faded away. So roughly 1 QB hit in every 2 years . Lamar is the only one who went after 20s and his graph is also dicey considering that he plays as a pseudo RB.

By jumping from one QB to other without giving ample time , we might be setting ourselves up for failure.

I like bills strategy of having Mac and Zappe compete. Mac to prove that he is the franchise back and zappe to know that he is with a Fighting chance to prove that a fourth rounder can also be the franchise QB and look to address his weakness of batted balls.

 

[TheRainMaker]

What fans need to see is Mac being able to put the team on his back and beat teams over .500. He's currently 3-10 against those teams. The problem I see with him is that when the game doesn't go according to plan, he can't adjust. Now this may be because the receivers seem like they can't get open unless they are running the ball well and force LB's to bite on the PA pass. In fact, the last few years the Pats have been one of the worst teams that separate from their opponents in the passing game. That is certainly not doing Mac any favors. Case in point Zappe on MNF. The Bears were not fazed when Zappe became a drop back passer as suddenly nobody could get open.

Look at Tua, he's a limited arm talent and he's playing a lot better with the addition of Tyrek Hill. Mac needs an elite playmaker he can depend on which will also draw away attention from the others. Hopefully, Thornton turns into that guy.

Also, the lack of offensive experience/creativity with the offensive staff is not helping either QB.

 

[venecol]

A simpler iteration of the questions raised here might be "What if NEITHER of these interesting prospects is good enough?" and there can be no fairer question than that. We certainlty should not blame Bill for rattling the requisite cages to ANSWER this question. We do need to know. Does Zappe have the skills for the job? Is Mac tough enough for the job? IF neither is up to the job, there remains the question, "Does this show, yet again, that Bill the GM is vastly less capable than Bill the G.O.A.T. coach."

I agree with the first part. Don't care about the GM bit. We need to know asap if Mac is the "guy" because if he isn't (and that's yet to be determined) then we need to act sooner rather than later.

A QB isn't like a 1st round WR that you can afford to hang around for 3+ years despite him clearly being a bust. Or a 1st Rd OT, where you exercise the 5th year option despite questionable performance.

It's incredibly difficult to hit on a franchise QB. Some teams have spent decades before they find one. IMO by the middle of the 3rd season you need to know and act, or you'll be stuck in QB purgatory for another 3 to 5 years.

I like what ARZ did with Rosen. A year after picking him in the 1st Rd they dumped him. They knew. Dude hasn't been able to get on the field since. They ended up with Murray who has yet to prove himself but he's way better than that stiff Rosen.

 

[Toofy]

I agree with the first part. Don't care about the GM bit. We need to know asap if Mac is the "guy" because if he isn't (and that's yet to be determined) then we need to act sooner rather than later.

A QB isn't like a 1st round WR that you can afford to hang around for 3+ years despite him clearly being a bust. Or a 1st Rd OT, where you exercise the 5th year option despite questionable performance.

It's incredibly difficult to hit on a franchise QB. Some teams have spent decades before they find one. IMO by the middle of the 3rd season you need to know and act, or you'll be stuck in QB purgatory for another 3 to 5 years.

I like what ARZ did with Rosen. A year after picking him in the 1st Rd they dumped him. They knew. Dude hasn't been able to get on the field since. They ended up with Murray who has yet to prove himself but he's way better than that stiff Rosen.

Mac is definitely better than Rosen and zappe also looks the same . We might end up with an Andy Dalton or Ryan tannehill clone and try to win with that .

This is where we try to go back to the older days philosophy where defense wins championships and play inverse logic on offense - bend don't break offense .

All we need is 2 elite pass rushers and we can definitely build on rookie cornerbacks and rookie receivers who are lighting up all across NFL. Build championship defense with the existing RB as a group package and short passes , minimize TO and mistakes and try to get in as wild card and then it's anybody's game.



So maybe in few years the QB play gets diminished unless they are a dual threat like Lamar or Josh. Still you need a solid team.

I don't anticipate us to win more than 1 ring in the next 2 decades. So if we go to post season in more than 10 of them it's a win win.

Buffalo after going to 4 consecutive super bowls as a runner up managed to find franchise QB after 2 decades.

If we are to avoid that , we need to place faith in QB for 3 years minimum and try to win as a team.

A big positive is we have rookie QB for the next 3 years outside of this year. So why waste the cap space . If we start to get better returns on FA and draftees we can do good with a functional QB.

Our TE investments are probably not well aligned to suit the strengths of our team . Should invest more in defense than offense .

 

[venecol]

Mac is definitely better than Rosen and zappe also looks the same . We might end up with an Andy Dalton or Ryan tannehill clone and try to win with that .

This is where we try to go back to the older days philosophy where defense wins championships and play inverse logic on offense - bend don't break offense .

All we need is 2 elite pass rushers and we can definitely build on rookie cornerbacks and rookie receivers who are lighting up all across NFL. Build championship defense with the existing RB as a group package and short passes , minimize TO and mistakes and try to get in as wild card and then it's anybody's game.



So maybe in few years the QB play gets diminished unless they are a dual threat like Lamar or Josh. Still you need a solid team.

I don't anticipate us to win more than 1 ring in the next 2 decades. So if we go to post season in more than 10 of them it's a win win.

Buffalo after going to 4 consecutive super bowls as a runner up managed to find franchise QB after 2 decades.

If we are to avoid that , we need to place faith in QB for 3 years minimum and try to win as a team.

A big positive is we have rookie QB for the next 3 years outside of this year. So why waste the cap space . If we start to get better returns on FA and draftees we can do good with a functional QB.

Our TE investments are probably not well aligned to suit the strengths of our team . Should invest more in defense than offense .

Agree with a lot of this, but you just described QB purgatory. Where you end up with not the guy but good enough to sneak you into the playoffs every few years and maybe win a game here an there. Good enough to keep us out of the top 20 picks but not good enough to win it all.

Of course, we don't know yet. The sooner we know, the better off we'll be.

 

[Vindicate]

Agree with a lot of this, but you just described QB purgatory. Where you end up with not the guy but good enough to sneak you into the playoffs every few years and maybe win a game here an there. Good enough to keep us out of the top 20 picks but not good enough to win it all.

Of course, we don't know yet. The sooner we know, the better off we'll be.

Andy Dalton with the Bengals was* the best example of this I feel like.

 

[mgteich]

A simpler iteration of the questions raised here might be "What if NEITHER of these interesting prospects is good enough?" and there can be no fairer question than that. We certainlty should not blame Bill for rattling the requisite cages to ANSWER this question. We do need to know. Does Zappe have the skills for the job? Is Mac tough enough for the job? IF neither is up to the job, there remains the question, "Does this show, yet again, that Bill the GM is vastly less capable than Bill the G.O.A.T. coach."

So, Belichick is failure for picking Jones at 15, if he doesn't turn out to be a top 10 QB? I strongly disagree. Belichick was very QB needy and took a shot with a player that I suspect many GM's would have chosen. BTW, let's go back and see how many here objected to the pick. And how many thought that our 2021 quarterback play was just not good enough. Be real!
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IF JONES DOESN'T WORK OUT
For me, Belichick took a shot; the other choice was Mills. It was a reasonable shot and was working out great when a top OC developed him enough for Jones to lead the team to the playoffs AS A ROOKIE!

If you want to blame the GM, you are using the wrong reasons. Jones needed a top OC, with the OC's chosen QB coach to develop an offensive plan that would best develop Jones. And, I suppose we might have chosen an OL coach who didn't think that Wynn should start at RT (I'm NOT objecting to the experiment that started during the camps; but rather that it took so long to realize the error.
=============================
EVERYTHING COULD BE FINE AT THE BREAK
1) Jones could look good leading the team to two wins.
2) Cajuste could replace Wynn on the team, and Belichick could acquire a backup for our injury prone 3 OT's.
3) We could save some cap money by trading Wynn.

 

[Boomer B]

What happens with Mac/Zappe will have an impact on the franchise for the next decade. If one works out we can hopefully be a contender within a few years. If neither work out and we have to go after a QB in the draft in 2024 then we are set back another 3-4 years at least as we’ll have to give that young QB time to develop.

On Zo’s show they were talking about this today. If Mac or Zappe aren’t the answer’s Bill won’t be the one leading the search for the new QB in the 2024 draft. His rope is long but not that long. He needs one of these guys to be the one.

 

[Biffins]

If Patriots QB Situation Falls Flat, Belichick Could End Up With a Serious Problem
Ian Logue
If the New England Patriots hope to salvage their season, they'll need to either go all in behind Mac Jones, or pray that Bailey Zappe just had an off night against Chicago on Monday because if not, Bill Belichick may end up with quite a problem on his hands.

The post If Patriots QB Situation Falls Flat, Belichick Could End Up With a Serious Problem appeared first on PatsFans.com.

Continue reading...

(If you enjoyed this entry - hit the Thumbs Up/If not, hit the Thumbs down in this thread)

Is there any scenario in which the Pats fanbase collectively acknowledges that it was hubris, arrogance and incompetence by the front office to let Brady go. Brady has played at a MUCH higher level (arguably MVP last season) than our combination of Cameron, Mac and Zappe and almost certainly we’d have more wins over these last seasons (without overspending on mediocre WR and TE talent to try paper the cracks).


I’m very disappointed that we’re now just rolling in the muck season after season like the other 16 teams that don’t have a franchise QB, hoping for high draft hits, having QB battles between mediocre players, and basically waiting for lightning to strike so we can rejoin the group of blessed teams with a franchise QB who can actually win the SB.

 

[Thelonious]

So, Belichick is failure for picking Jones at 15, if he doesn't turn out to be a top 10 QB? I strongly disagree. Belichick was very QB needy and took a shot with a player that I suspect many GM's would have chosen. BTW, let's go back and see how many here objected to the pick. And how many thought that our 2021 quarterback play was just not good enough. Be real!
======================
IF JONES DOESN'T WORK OUT
For me, Belichick took a shot; the other choice was Mills. It was a reasonable shot and was working out great when a top OC developed him enough for Jones to lead the team to the playoffs AS A ROOKIE!

If you want to blame the GM, you are using the wrong reasons. Jones needed a top OC, with the OC's chosen QB coach to develop an offensive plan that would best develop Jones. And, I suppose we might have chosen an OL coach who didn't think that Wynn should start at RT (I'm NOT objecting to the experiment that started during the camps; but rather that it took so long to realize the error.
=============================
EVERYTHING COULD BE FINE AT THE BREAK
1) Jones could look good leading the team to two wins.
2) Cajuste could replace Wynn on the team, and Belichick could acquire a backup for our injury prone 3 OT's.
3) We could save some cap money by trading Wynn.

C'mon now: not what I said. There is a HISTORY of criticizing Bill the GM, because there is a HISTORY of disappointing-verging-on-idiotic draft choices engineered by him. No one would question any GM based on any single draft disappointment, but there is a solid basis for such questioning when there is a history, over years, both of bad draft choices AND of other sorts of bonehead personnel decisions, including his asinine mishandling of Brady's later career. Neither is it the case that this is some new notion for me, based only on very recent issues. I have been saying for a couple of years that Bill the GM should long since have been replaced.

As for looking back at Mac's having been drafted, virtually EVERYONE said at that time that the issue with Mac would be: what is his upside potential, what is his "ceiling"? Questions re Mac are not at all a knee-jerk reaction to recent failings on his part. Questions regarding Mac's ability to become a top-tier, "franchise" qb (use whatever buzzing jargon you like) are nothing new at all, and the questions raised then remain, as a matter of empirical fact, unanswered as we speak.

 

[Thelonious]

I agree with the first part. Don't care about the GM bit. We need to know asap if Mac is the "guy" because if he isn't (and that's yet to be determined) then we need to act sooner rather than later.

A QB isn't like a 1st round WR that you can afford to hang around for 3+ years despite him clearly being a bust. Or a 1st Rd OT, where you exercise the 5th year option despite questionable performance.

It's incredibly difficult to hit on a franchise QB. Some teams have spent decades before they find one. IMO by the middle of the 3rd season you need to know and act, or you'll be stuck in QB purgatory for another 3 to 5 years.

I like what ARZ did with Rosen. A year after picking him in the 1st Rd they dumped him. They knew. Dude hasn't been able to get on the field since. They ended up with Murray who has yet to prove himself but he's way better than that stiff Rosen.

It IS hard to get a new qb. In an era of obsessive (not to say intrusive and dangerous) analytical wizardry, it's a baffler that it remains as much of an inscrutable crapshoot as it still is. I kind of enjoy that though, to be honest, since it leaves so much room for Luddite jiberjabberers like me to hold forth on my how matters look from my ill-informed, primitive perspective, as I sit here studying those shadows on the back wall, yammering away.

 

[venecol]

If Patriots QB Situation Falls Flat, Belichick Could End Up With a Serious Problem
Ian Logue
If the New England Patriots hope to salvage their season, they'll need to either go all in behind Mac Jones, or pray that Bailey Zappe just had an off night against Chicago on Monday because if not, Bill Belichick may end up with quite a problem on his hands.

The post If Patriots QB Situation Falls Flat, Belichick Could End Up With a Serious Problem appeared first on PatsFans.com.

Continue reading...

(If you enjoyed this entry - hit the Thumbs Up/If not, hit the Thumbs down in this thread)

Just read the article. Nice summary of the team from 2020 onward, and of this season from the offseason to MNF.

You raise interesting concerns and provocative future implications.

Enjoyed the read.

 

[Ian]

from my ill-informed, primitive perspective, as I sit here studying those shadows on the back wall, yammering away.

Good to know I've got company. I feel a little less alone in the universe now

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

This is where we try to go back to the older days philosophy where defense wins championships and play inverse logic on offense - bend don't break offense .

But you won't win with that unless the QB is great. You still need a great QB.

Early 2000s Brady and 90s Troy Aikman were still top 5 QBs in their time, and were still clutch and great in the postseason.

Dalton/tannehill types still flame out.

 

[mike_usagisan]

But you won't win with that unless the QB is great. You still need a great QB.

Early 2000s Brady and 90s Troy Aikman were still top 5 QBs in their time, and were still clutch and great in the postseason.

Dalton/tannehill types still flame out.

Eli Manning, Peyton Manning (with the Broncos), Foles, and Joe Flacco would like to show you their rings.

And a great D would give Mac (or Zappe) the time to develop. Brady and other QBs have always talked about how long it took for the game to slow down and how that made a big difference.

 

[venecol]

Eli Manning, Peyton Manning (with the Broncos), Foles, and Joe Flacco would like to show you their rings.

And a great D would give Mac (or Zappe) the time to develop. Brady and other QBs have always talked about how long it took for the game to slow down and how that made a big difference.

True, all of those are good examples but they're rare and a result of either having all-time great defenses or getting hot at the right time. Do the Pats have an all-time great D? Can we get hot at the right time? Maybe, I guess.