NE 2017 Draft haul + udfa

[long distance]

Pats didn't cut a single of the 20 UDFAs entering TC (quite amazing) . and now they added another one.

Pats 2017 UDFA #21 is Montana's DE Caleb Kidder



During his college career at Montana, Kidder recorded 165 tackles, 22.5 tackles for a loss, 10.5 sacks, three fumble recoveries, two blocks and 13 pass defenses over the course of 31 games.
Kidder's numbers are even more impressive considering he underwent a primary position change in 2016 from defensive tackle to defensive end and missed his entire junior season with an injury in 2014.

good size, good production, a little bit on a slow and less explosive side,
(but not too far from 1st rounder Barnett # f.e.)
great 3-cone (of course) and bench - both same as Rivers! - two things BB cherishes
certainly better athlete than Corey Vereen that was put on IR last month
(and probably comes to take his TC spot)

so even coming this late could be interesting to monitor

Name: Caleb Kidder
College: Montana Number: 37
Height: 6-4 Weight: 269
Position: DE Pos2: DT

Pro Day Results
Height: 6044
Weight: 269
40 Yrd Dash: 4.97
20 Yrd Dash: 2.68
10 Yrd Dash: 1.67
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 30
Vertical Jump: 33
Broad Jump: 08'09"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.47
3-Cone Drill: 6.91

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EDIT: (more articles on Kidder)

Caleb Kidder - 14383 | Draft Analyst

quote:
Kidder is an athletic defensive line prospect who plays with a special-teams mentality. He has all the underlying ability to make an active roster as a designated pass rusher and special-teams player.

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here a link to updated OP with all rookies and links to learn more about each:
NE 2017 Draft haul + udfa

 

[long distance]

with TC starting . a reminder that you can access info on every rookie from OP -
NE 2017 Draft haul + udfa
__

BTW - Pats are now tied w HOU having most 2017 UDFAs on the team: 22
(21 active + Vereen on IR). They are also one of 5 teams that didn't yet cut a single one of them. Speaks volumes about this class talent . and also character..

 

[long distance]

TC week 1 UDFA report

After first week of TC . UDFAs that stood out the most were LB Langi, CB Moore and WR Carr. Langi is already a part of 2nd string rotation in 11v11.

Somewhat under the radar two IOLs are drawing good reports: guards King and Croston. Since it is somewhat thin position (with Baker and Farris gone) they are on the right track to replace them on PS.

Three guys are injured: Jelks started the camp on NFI list (carrying injury from college), D. Jones (leg, hamstring?) is working out on the other field with Dola and Mitchell, WR Hollister suffered a more serious injury (arm/shoulder) and didn't return to practice.

Others are keeping low profile so far . at least acc. to reports. One pair of eyes closely monitoring all of them of course belongs to BB (from Reiss):

Belichick coaches the entire roster: ... Where was Belichick? With the third-stringers, and at one point I watched him pull undrafted safety Damarius Travis (Minnesota) aside to give him some instruction. The next day, he did something similar with undrafted linebacker Brooks Ellis (Arkansas), seemingly going over the finer points of dropping into coverage. This was a reminder that Belichick coaches every player on the 90-man roster, because the development of some lower-end prospects could pay off down the road.
_

Learning more about Croston: Undrafted free-agent offensive lineman Cole Croston is the player who got a bump up the depth chart when second-string guard Chase Farris was lost for the season with a torn Achilles. Croston, listed at 6-foot-5 and 295 pounds, played for former Belichick assistant Kirk Ferentz at the University of Iowa, and I watched him get after it in a half-line running drill. I could see how offensive line coach Dante Scarnecchia might also like his feet, as Croston moves well in a way that could fit nicely in the Patriots' zone-based scheme. Croston, who has played both guard spots on the second unit, is a player I'm interested in watching in the days to come.
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If some of this names don't sound familiar . a reminder that you have links to all UDFAs in the OP here: NE 2017 Draft haul + udfa

 

[long distance]

Nice story on the latest UDFA addition, DE Caleb Kidder, former ski racer.
He had pretty good start of camp showing up on several practice reports . being a DE not a bad chance to stick around albeit on PS.

Opportunity knocks for Pats' free agent Caleb Kidder

 

[patsinthesnow]

Stock watch of our deepest UDFA class ever after a week of camp. Seems like these four have separated themselves from the rest:

1. CB Kenny Moore: Had one of the smallest signing bonuses & wasn't in the top 100 CBs on a lot of draft guides. Despite being signed as the 85-90th man on the roster he's flashed vs. 1s & 2s at OTAs & training camp. Road to 53 man roster a challenge at CB but not impossible.

2. LB/DE Harvey Langi: The favorite to make the team since they signed. He received a massive 100k signing bonus & is getting snaps at two positions of shallow depth: DE/OLB. Road to 53 man roster not very challenging if he shows adequate play in preseason.

3. WR Austin Carr: Getting a ton of work with the WR injuries. A decorated collegiate WR who's looked good in & out of breaks. However, looks slow. Need to see more in preseason. Road to 53 man roster nearly impossible barring injuries to top 5 WRs.

4. DT Adam Butler: He's been getting praise from beat writers and work besides the 3rd team at camp. Howe said he's fast. Seemingly no road to 53 man roster unless BB wants a 5th DT.

Preaseason should be great this year.

 

[long distance]

bumping up . as promised . if someone wants to have another look at some rookie before the game

links to presentations of all rookies + info in OP here:
NE 2017 Draft haul + udfa

 

[long distance]

After first part of TC and more importantly first game where we could actually see our dear UDFAs in action with our own eyes . after every player-every play re-watch some “evaluations“ to share..

LB Langi - serious candidate for 53. lots of good reports from practice, played very well at different positions, played a lot and well on ST . hard to smuggle to PS
> hot take: Mingo “replacement“ that could end up Ninko “replacement“

OL Croston - possible surprise on 53. good reports from practice. Dante put him at 2nd string G from day 1 IIRC (played both T in Iowa) . had him work as C too . very good game at both G positions, not too bad at LT in the last Q . played 87% of snaps and showed good motor (key block on the outside run for Foster's TD)
> hot take: he is foremost a strong PS candidate but if he continues to show up . numbers game could be in his favour for 53; lets assume Pats carry Garcia on 53 (and only one of Fleming/Waddle) but have no use of him this yr . Croston could bring some key versatility backing up both G and both T positions. He can do that as PS and hopefully should clear waivers but maybe they'd like to play it safe this time..

DL A.Butler - possible 53 candidate. his DL/DE versatility and troubles at DE position could bring him a roster spot. He doesn't play ST . but if he continues to outplay Grissom and DE depth isn't addressed otherwise he stands a good chance (note that Butler was used more at DE than Grissom who mostly played sort of OLB or extra DE)

WR Carr - possible 53 candidate. waiving him could be risky business . he was very much in demand as UDFA back in May and with the games like Thursday that demand should grow. only one team interested ends the game here . both NYJ and BUF could have a WR place among others.. If they see future they better keep him . no use on ST (besides WR depth) makes him a costly roster spot..

TE Hollister - possible 53 candidate. at the moment he is virtually #3 TE since both JO and Lengel are injured . and a lot of Hollister's destiny will depend on how the other two return to the field. Very risky waiving him as well . but little ST value could be a problem as well (btw - they are starting to put him on ST so interesting to monitor if this continues..)

SS Travis - outside possibility for 53, strong candidate for PS. Very good game as “starter“ on the night. Showed vs run and in coverage. Showed some good awareness, decisiveness and efficient tackling. Depending on how they see Richards and Ebner as SS..

CB Moore - outside possibility for 53, strong candidate for PS. Strong start in minicamp and TC, less talked about lately. Not much went his way on limited snaps behind Cyrus and Coleman in a game. He did play a lot on ST as a gunner opposite JJ so his short term destiny could be tied w Slater as much as health at CB.

CB Killings - outside possibility for 53, strong candidate for PS. Silently starting to move up and impress. Two great run stops on limited snaps on Thursday. Looked solid in coverage. Saw snaps as gunner on ST. Mix that w multiple reports of his understanding of the game, film study, leadership etc and you can have a surprise in the making. (btw - exact same size as Butler, just a little faster; also similar characteristics (issues in deep coverage but good tackler, feisty competitor..)
___

Solid PS candidates: S/ST Thompson, RB Daniels, TE Cotton, G King, possibly NT Augusta

Very little seen or reported so far: OL Rich (played some G on Thu), DE Kidder, LB Ellis, CB/R Likely

Injured: FS D. Jones, WR C.Hollister, OL Jelks
_

BTW - FS D. Jones - yes i am biased here more than elsewhere but i do see he has good chance to stick around even if injured. FS is very thin position (Richards played a lot of snaps in practice and in a game at FS and had big problems, Ebner practiced there too so a lot of guys that don't really fit there with only McCourty available at the moment; surprised they didn't try Killings there..)
___

a reminder that all info w links etc (incl. paid guarantees) on all UDFAs is in OP here: NE 2017 Draft haul + udfa

 

[Gumby]

After first part of TC and more importantly first game where we could actually see our dear UDFAs in action with our own eyes . after every player-every play re-watch some “evaluations“ to share..

WR Moore - outside possibility for 53, strong candidate for PS. Strong start in minicamp and TC, less talked about lately. Not much went his way on limited snaps behind Cyrus and Coleman in a game. He did play a lot on ST as a gunner opposite JJ so his short term destiny could be tied w Slater as much as health at CB.

WR Killings - outside possibility for 53, strong candidate for PS. Silently starting to move up and impress. Two great run stops on limited snaps on Thursday. Looked solid in coverage. Saw snaps as gunner on ST. Mix that w multiple reports of his understanding of the game, film study, leadership etc and you can have a surprise in the making. (btw - exact same size as Butler, just a little faster; also similar characteristics (issues in deep coverage but good tackler, feisty competitor..)

Funny how these two WRs play on defense . Typos happen.

 

[long distance]

Funny how these two WRs play on defense . Typos happen.

Thanks. Long posts take toll.. (and not only on the reader..)

 

[Brick27]

Very interesting that for a team that many are saying has the best depth of any during the BB era, there may also not be a year where there was such heightened intrigue towards UDFAs and the backend of the roster as whole.

Obviously it's not unusual to have a few guys here and there that make the team undrafted, but this year there is as many as 5+ guys that atleast have a shot to scratch the surface.

Heck, for fun, lets pretend (unlikely but not impossible) that Langi, Hollister, Carr, and Butler make the 53 man, and McDermott makes the PS. Low amount of draft picks or not, when's the last time a team had more rookie UDFAs make their initial 53-man than they had rookie draft picks make it?

 

[supafly]

Very interesting that for a team that many are saying has the best depth of any during the BB era, there may also not be a year where there was such heightened intrigue towards UDFAs and the backend of the roster as whole.

Obviously it's not unusual to have a few guys here and there that make the team undrafted, but this year there is as many as 5+ guys that atleast have a shot to scratch the surface.

Heck, for fun, lets pretend (unlikely but not impossible) that Langi, Hollister, Carr, and Butler make the 53 man, and McDermott makes the PS. Low amount of draft picks or not, when's the last time a team had more rookie UDFAs make their initial 53-man than they had rookie draft picks make it?

I think we'll see the 13 yr trend of having an UDFA or two on the roster, but I don't think the idea of having more than that is too realistic. Just my opinion, of course.

Interesting article from Rich Hill (Pats Pulpit) came across my iPhone newsfeed since it's Patriots related. While I don't agree with his analysis here, it's worth noting that he thinks that 52/53 roster spots are already set.

Sunday NFL Thoughts: The Patriots have just 1 open spot on the 53-man roster

 

[maineman209]

I think we'll see the 13 yr trend of having an UDFA or two on the roster, but I don't think the idea of having more than that is too realistic. Just my opinion, of course.

Interesting article from Rich Hill (Pats Pulpit) came across my iPhone newsfeed since it's Patriots related. While I don't agree with his analysis here, it's worth noting that he thinks that 52/53 roster spots are already set.

Sunday NFL Thoughts: The Patriots have just 1 open spot on the 53-man roster

Hmmmm ...

Hill lists Butler, Gilmore, and Rowe as locks at CB with Cyrus, Coleman and Jon Jones competing for two spots. And yet, if you take the above list of 6 and substitute Ryan for Gilmore, that's who the Pats carried at CB in 2016. Why is he assuming that CB will be cut down to only five spots for 2017?

 

[maineman209]

After first part of TC and more importantly first game where we could actually see our dear UDFAs in action with our own eyes . after every player-every play re-watch some “evaluations“ to share..

LB Langi - serious candidate for 53. lots of good reports from practice, played very well at different positions, played a lot and well on ST . hard to smuggle to PS
> hot take: Mingo “replacement“ that could end up Ninko “replacement“

OL Croston - possible surprise on 53. good reports from practice. Dante put him at 2nd string G from day 1 IIRC (played both T in Iowa) . had him work as C too . very good game at both G positions, not too bad at LT in the last Q . played 87% of snaps and showed good motor (key block on the outside run for Foster's TD)
> hot take: he is foremost a strong PS candidate but if he continues to show up . numbers game could be in his favour for 53; lets assume Pats carry Garcia on 53 (and only one of Fleming/Waddle) but have no use of him this yr . Croston could bring some key versatility backing up both G and both T positions. He can do that as PS and hopefully should clear waivers but maybe they'd like to play it safe this time..

DL A.Butler - possible 53 candidate. his DL/DE versatility and troubles at DE position could bring him a roster spot. He doesn't play ST . but if he continues to outplay Grissom and DE depth isn't addressed otherwise he stands a good chance (note that Butler was used more at DE than Grissom who mostly played sort of OLB or extra DE)

WR Carr - possible 53 candidate. waiving him could be risky business . he was very much in demand as UDFA back in May and with the games like Thursday that demand should grow. only one team interested ends the game here . both NYJ and BUF could have a WR place among others.. If they see future they better keep him . no use on ST (besides WR depth) makes him a costly roster spot..

TE Hollister - possible 53 candidate. at the moment he is virtually #3 TE since both JO and Lengel are injured . and a lot of Hollister's destiny will depend on how the other two return to the field. Very risky waiving him as well . but little ST value could be a problem as well (btw - they are starting to put him on ST so interesting to monitor if this continues..)

SS Travis - outside possibility for 53, strong candidate for PS. Very good game as “starter“ on the night. Showed vs run and in coverage. Showed some good awareness, decisiveness and efficient tackling. Depending on how they see Richards and Ebner as SS..

CB Moore - outside possibility for 53, strong candidate for PS. Strong start in minicamp and TC, less talked about lately. Not much went his way on limited snaps behind Cyrus and Coleman in a game. He did play a lot on ST as a gunner opposite JJ so his short term destiny could be tied w Slater as much as health at CB.

CB Killings - outside possibility for 53, strong candidate for PS. Silently starting to move up and impress. Two great run stops on limited snaps on Thursday. Looked solid in coverage. Saw snaps as gunner on ST. Mix that w multiple reports of his understanding of the game, film study, leadership etc and you can have a surprise in the making. (btw - exact same size as Butler, just a little faster; also similar characteristics (issues in deep coverage but good tackler, feisty competitor..)
___

Solid PS candidates: S/ST Thompson, RB Daniels, TE Cotton, G King, possibly NT Augusta

Very little seen or reported so far: OL Rich (played some G on Thu), DE Kidder, LB Ellis, CB/R Likely

Injured: FS D. Jones, WR C.Hollister, OL Jelks
_

BTW - FS D. Jones - yes i am biased here more than elsewhere but i do see he has good chance to stick around even if injured. FS is very thin position (Richards played a lot of snaps in practice and in a game at FS and had big problems, Ebner practiced there too so a lot of guys that don't really fit there with only McCourty available at the moment; surprised they didn't try Killings there..)
___

a reminder that all info w links etc (incl. paid guarantees) on all UDFAs is in OP here: NE 2017 Draft haul + udfa

Excellent analysis! Thank you!

 

[Brick27]

I think we'll see the 13 yr trend of having an UDFA or two on the roster, but I don't think the idea of having more than that is too realistic. Just my opinion, of course.

I'm not convinced that more than one or two outside of Langi will stick either, but interesting debates either way.

Maybe it's just the case that each year has even more social media coverage and outlets dissecting these players? Which in turn exaggerates the perception of UDFAs in terms of what we think they're worth vs. their actual value. With more familiarity comes more liking.

 

[long distance]

Joint practices work both ways . sorry to see Dwayne go..

 

[long distance]

good number . good luck




BTW - Davis played well at the Senior Bowl and impresses with his physique, at 6-foot-3, 271 pounds, with 34 1/8-inch arms. He also shows a solid burst and athleticism rushing off the edge, which should translate to him being drafted.

 

[mgteich]

I think we'll see the 13 yr trend of having an UDFA or two on the roster, but I don't think the idea of having more than that is too realistic. Just my opinion, of course.

Interesting article from Rich Hill (Pats Pulpit) came across my iPhone newsfeed since it's Patriots related. While I don't agree with his analysis here, it's worth noting that he thinks that 52/53 roster spots are already set.

Sunday NFL Thoughts: The Patriots have just 1 open spot on the 53-man roster

 

[mgteich]

His title is misleading. He doesn't believe that 52 roster spots are set. He lists only 47. This is his analysis.

TE
3 competing for 1 roster spot as 3rd TE

LB
3 competing for 2 backup LB spots.

CB
3 competing for 2 backup CB spots.

Player 53
could be anyone

 

[supafly]

His title is misleading. He doesn't believe that 52 roster spots are set. He lists only 47. This is his analysis.

TE
3 competing for 1 roster spot as 3rd TE

LB
3 competing for 2 backup LB spots.

CB
3 competing for 2 backup CB spots.

Player 53
could be anyone

Yes, that is certainly a bit misleading.

 

[long distance]

short recap of exciting and numerous udfa class that faced tough challenge making arguably one of the deepest rosters in cap era:

23 undrafted free agents were brought to Pats training camp (+ 3 to fill the roster for last game) and this is how things stand hours before the opener:

against most odds & comments . not 1, not 2, not 3 but 4 UDFA made the 53 roster!:
TE J.Hollister, OL Croston, DL A.Butler, LB Langi

2 more were taken to other 53 rosters:
WR Carr (NO) and CB Moore (IND)

In addition to that 3 are currently on Pats PS:
WR C.Hollister, SS Travis and FS D.Jones

5 more are still w Patriots on different injured/reserve lists:
OL Jelks, DT Augusta, DE K.Davis, DE Kidder, CB DJ Killings

Only 8 of 23 are currently free agents:
RB Daniels, TE Cotton, OL Rich, OL J.King, LB Ellis, S Thompson, DB D.Thomas,
CB/R Likely and DE Vereen who was waiwed injured w settlement.

Amazing result.
It was a fun ride with this boys. Specially happy most of my binkies are still around.
___

There are 15 UDFAs on current NE 53 roster! (5 more on PS)

From the 3 UDFAs that made it last year . JJ is on 52, DJ on PS and Hamilton waived injured w settlement.