Mark Harrison?

[pctronics0072]

Mark Harrison was a productive college player as a true sophomore he had 44 receptions, 829 yards, and 9 touchdowns, he then dealt with injuries as a junior but returned as a senior with 44 receptions, 583 yards, and 6 touchdowns. He then showed up at the 2013 NFL combine and stole the show with these metrics.

Combine Invite: Yes
Height: 6027
Weight: 231
40 Yard Dash: 4.37
20 Yard Dash: 2.58
10 Yard Dash: 1.59
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 17
Vertical Jump: 38 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'09"
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.33
3-Cone Drill: 6.99

He was one of the most coveted UDFA last season.

Patriots sign coveted UDFA Mark Harrison | NEPatriotsDraft.com - 2014 NFL Draft

If you do not see potential in this kid you are too caught up in where players are selected, he had production, and ridiculous metrics at the combine, he did things only Calvin Johnson and a handful of other players have done in combine history. He is a raw talent, but nobody develops talent better than Belichick and his staff.

Exactly. You never know until you try. I have not seen a lick of tape on this guy. One of the many reasons I am a patsfan is because BB is always developing something new or a new way to use something. From the last few years:
-2 TE set
-Lightening fast offense
-2 slot receiver set

I look forward to seeing if MH will pan out. I really do not get the negativity. if it works even a fourth as well as hernandez before he got all serial killery , we make out like bandits. If not, we loose nothing and maybe learn how to improve the process(?). Win-Win!

 

[supafly]

Supafly's post isn't well thought out considering that the 2,3,4,5, and 7 options apply equally to someone like Harrison (if he's used as a move-TE) as it does any rookie that comes in for the same position.

All I'm saying is that it may very well be a fan-based misconception that we "need" a flex/move TE.

The thought of suddenly transforming a guy who may not even make the team to a position that he doesn't even play seems a lot more fantastical than the exploration of adding a more traditional, in-line TE to me; particularly when we've been failing to impose any kind of physicality or will in the months of January/February lately.

I'd much rather have a better blocking TE who can do every single thing that a move/flex TE can do PLUS improve our blocking.

 

[supafly]

The loss to the Ravens was more about the Defense falling apart after the loss of Talib than it was the offense not being able to do things.

The fact that the offense put up a big ZERO in the second half of the AFFCG loss vs Baltimore certainly factored pretty highly into the equation. You aren't going to win many conference championships by scoring one TD in the entire game, and getting shut out in the entire second half. Let's remember that it was still a 14-13 game in the early 4th quarter, so it's not like the game was anything near being out of reach due to the defense's collapse--at least not at that point anyway.

Finesse guys like Aaron Hernandez may be appealing to the fans, but they don't help in the physicality aspect, nor do they do too much more than traditional TEs in the passing/run game.

You may be right and maybe Belichick suddenly transforms Mark Harrison into a great move TE, but there's probably a much better chance that he doesn't even make the team. No one knows, so I won't pretend to know any more than you do.

My one and only point was that it's quite possible that this whole "need to replace Hernandez no matter who does it" (and we'll debate every single guy who is anywhere from 6' to 6'6" and in the range of 220-270 in the process) may be nothing more than a made up misconception from the fans. We'll have to see how it plays out in the coming months.

 

[Wilfork#75]

All I'm saying is that it may very well be a fan-based misconception that we "need" a flex/move TE.

The thought of suddenly transforming a guy who may not even make the team to a position that he doesn't even play seems a lot more fantastical than the exploration of adding a more traditional, in-line TE to me; particularly when we've been failing to impose any kind of physicality or will in the months of January/February lately.

I'd much rather have a better blocking TE who can do every single thing that a move/flex TE can do PLUS improve our blocking.



Which was one of my points. The misconception that we "need" to replace Aaron Hernandez and bring in a move/flex TE is nothing more than fan-made drivel. We can add a traditional/inline TE just the same and have the ability to do every single thing that I posted and improve our blocking. What can't a traditional/inline TE do in our offense that we need so badly? The mismatches are there. The ability to keep the same personnel are there. The big red zone target is there. The addition of a new receiver on a cheap, rookie deal is there. The blocking aspect is not only there--it's actually improved upon from Hernandez.

I don't have a problem if Belichick sees fit in giving a guy like Mark Harrison a chance at making the team as a TE (which is pretty much the only shot he'll have of making it), but in the meantime the thought of transforming WRs like LaFell/Harrison every single week starts to become a bit fantastical.

Just because we took a shot on Aaron Hernandez in the 4th round in 2010 doesn't mean that we're now forced to try and replace the move/flex option TE with every WR or TE draftee brought up by a poster on the forum.

I completely agree with you that we don't necessarily need a move TE and I would much prefer a traditional TE like Niklas to pair with Gronk. However, I would still try and transition Harrison to that move TE position not out of need, but because I think that would be his best position in the NFL. I said before last years draft when he was discussed as a prospect that I though he looked more like a TE playing on the outside than a WR and I think his skillset better suites playing tighter to the ball. So whether its as a move TE or an over-sized slot receiver, I think he would be better off playing closer to the middle where he can better utilize his size than on the outside. The odds are he won't make it in the NFL anyway, but in terms of his skill set I think that would give him the best chance to make it.

 

[Deus Irae]

If Harrison played to his measurables, we wouldn't be talking about a UDFA, so I don't know why people are bringing up his measurables.

 

[supafly]

The odds are he won't make it in the NFL anyway, but in terms of his skill set I think that would give him the best chance to make it.

I'm pretty much impartial on the subject altogether. My only point was that we may be able to see success with a more traditional TE vs the thought that we're going to need to try and replace Hernandez's skillset with anyone who's anywhere between 6' 220 lbs and 6'7" 275 lbs.

That seems to be the criteria that many people are using when bringing up the thought of "X" player suddenly becoming Aaron Hernandez V2. Some of these players are pretty far fetched. I truly have no idea as to whether or not Mark Harrison is one of them, but it seems like he has some long odds ahead of him to me.

In the meantime, I like the idea of developing a good blocking TE with big hands, a big frame, and I think he'd offer a fall back option to #87, should he experience more bad luck at the most inopportune times of the season again.

I'm just having a hard time seeing why this "move/flex" TE offers so much more in the first place. I understand the differences, but there are pluses and minuses. It seems as though the majority only point out the pluses.

 

[Dfresh429]

If Harrison played to his measurables, we wouldn't be talking about a UDFA, so I don't know why people are bringing up his measurables.

He was only an UFDA because of a foot injury. He was projected as a 2-4th rounder.

Highlights - seem very Hernandez-esque in terms of build and movement style

 

[oldrover]

That video doesn't show him looking much like AH... he doesn't make too many people miss tackles. He DID seem to get open deep a fair amount.

 

[mgteich]

I agree. Our problem at TE last year was NOT the lack of a move TE. Our problem was the lack of a reasonable TE option when Gronk was injured. If I knew that Gronk and Hooman would be healthy all year, then TE would be a much lower priority than I think it is. We'd still need a #2 TE, but the need would be much less.

All I'm saying is that it may very well be a fan-based misconception that we "need" a flex/move TE.

The thought of suddenly transforming a guy who may not even make the team to a position that he doesn't even play seems a lot more fantastical than the exploration of adding a more traditional, in-line TE to me; particularly when we've been failing to impose any kind of physicality or will in the months of January/February lately.

I'd much rather have a better blocking TE who can do every single thing that a move/flex TE can do PLUS improve our blocking.

 

[Brady6]

All I'm saying is that it may very well be a fan-based misconception that we "need" a flex/move TE.

The thought of suddenly transforming a guy who may not even make the team to a position that he doesn't even play seems a lot more fantastical than the exploration of adding a more traditional, in-line TE to me; particularly when we've been failing to impose any kind of physicality or will in the months of January/February lately.

I'd much rather have a better blocking TE who can do every single thing that a move/flex TE can do PLUS improve our blocking.

Harrison is actually a good blocker or at least he was in college. Hernandez was not a very good blocker especially when playing tight with the OL so if you are looking to replace him I think Harrison can be part of the solution. I do not think he could individually replace Hernandez but he could be part of a tandem with a more traditional rookie tight end and they could rotate them situationally.

I think Harrison is intriguing but until we see him at least take an OTA rep this is all speculation. I certainly would not plan for Harrison to be the starting Flex-TE. I would put him in the mix just because he does have some unique talent and could be a pleasant surprise.

 

[Brady6]

He was only an UFDA because of a foot injury. He was projected as a 2-4th rounder.



Highlights - seem very Hernandez-esque in terms of build and movement style

He was projected as a seventh round pick to a priority UDFA.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=90115&draftyear=2013&genpos=WR

The reason was a combination of the foot injury, him trashing a hotel room at a predraft event, and inconsistent college production.

Harrison was a workout warrior, he was not even considered a priority UDFA until he showed up at the combine and put on a show.

 

[Brady6]

I'm pretty much impartial on the subject altogether. My only point was that we may be able to see success with a more traditional TE vs the thought that we're going to need to try and replace Hernandez's skillset with anyone who's anywhere between 6' 220 lbs and 6'7" 275 lbs.



That seems to be the criteria that many people are using when bringing up the thought of "X" player suddenly becoming Aaron Hernandez V2. Some of these players are pretty far fetched. I truly have no idea as to whether or not Mark Harrison is one of them, but it seems like he has some long odds ahead of him to me.



In the meantime, I like the idea of developing a good blocking TE with big hands, a big frame, and I think he'd offer a fall back option to #87, should he experience more bad luck at the most inopportune times of the season again.



I'm just having a hard time seeing why this "move/flex" TE offers so much more in the first place. I understand the differences, but there are pluses and minuses. It seems as though the majority only point out the pluses.

I hate to say this because the dude is a scumbag but Hernandez was special and is not going to be replaced straight up. Everyone focuses on speed and agility when looking at replacements for Hernandez but the thing that actually set him apart and made him a difficult matchup was his strength. Pound for pound Hernandez was arguably the strongest player in the NFL. It will be hard to find a player to replace him because if you want the speed you are going to end up with a physically weaker player and if you want the strength you are going to end up with a slower player.

I think what posters and fans lose sight of is there was a reason the Patriots gave Hernandez $40M and extended him two years early. It was because he was not easily replaced.

Personally, if I'm the Patriots I would throw Harrison in the mix and if he gives them something great that's a huge bonus. As far as planning though I would draft a traditional TE who can be an upgrade over Hooman and Mulligan, this will give us a more effective 2-TE set. In terms of the passing game we have Edelman, Amendola and Boyce who can be moved around underneath to create matchup's along with Dobson and LaFell who can provide an outside X-WR.

My point is basically the ship sailed on the 2011 offense with 2-TE able to matchup all over the field in June 2013. We can reassemble parts of it but recreating it is not going to happen and it actually doesn't have to we have more talent at WR than we had then.

 

[manxman2601]

I think this talk of a move TE is a bit of a red herring. What this team sorely lacked last year was a big receiver in the middle of the field. A move TE can provide that as can a big slot WR. Call it what you will, but I think that's what we're talking about when considering LaFell or Harrison or Kelvin Benjamin in that role; a big presence in the middle of the field.

 

[unoriginal]

He was only an UFDA because of a foot injury. He was projected as a 2-4th rounder.

Highlights - seem very Hernandez-esque in terms of build and movement style

That video doesn't show him looking much like AH... he doesn't make too many people miss tackles. He DID seem to get open deep a fair amount.

Quite right. Watch any college Hernandez highlights, its almost 100% crosses and screens. Harrison its all fades and deep outs.

Hernandez ran low with a very pronounced forward lean and as you said, made people miss. Harrison seems to run around people, not make them miss (won't happen in the NFL) although his highlights do show a natural ability to catch the ball during contact, though he doesn't seem to fight or jump for it very well.

****

For the people who say the Pats could use two Y-tight ends: the problem is that you get diminishing returns the more guys you put in the middle of the field. The defense gets more compact, and there are only so many routes you can run from inside the box. The Pats cross their WRs a bunch anyways, so the question becomes how much traffic do you want to run through there?

The whole principle of the modern spread offense is to use all the space of the football field to counteract the speed of modern defenses. Putting nine offensive players in the box makes everyone easier to cover unless you have a serious power running game and play-action passing game built off it.

Hernandez was a great F-tight end (Erhardt-Perkins terminology; actually the fullback) because you could split him out wide and he could run crosses and slants like a big WR. Gronkowski seems to do best with seams, option routes, and outs.

Having two guys that can block really well is great but they have to be able to run different routes and attack different areas of the field.

 

[Deus Irae]

He was only an UFDA because of a foot injury. He was projected as a 2-4th rounder.

Highlights - seem very Hernandez-esque in terms of build and movement style

This wasn't a Lattimer situation, where the injury was something career threatening. If this kid played up to his measurables, he'd have been a sure-fire first round prospect minus a round or two, at most, because of the injury. He didn't play up to those measurables, which is why he's in New England after being a UDFA.

 

[manxman2601]

This wasn't a Lattimer situation, where the injury was something career threatening. If this kid played up to his measurables, he'd have been a sure-fire first round prospect minus a round or two, at most, because of the injury. He didn't play up to those measurables, which is why he's in New England after being a UDFA.

Are you forgetting about what happened at the combine? Whilst his grading was in flux in the months before the draft, from the 4th to 7th round, it was Harrison that got most of the blame for the trashing of the hotel room in Indy and that's probably why he fell to UDFA status.

 

[Deus Irae]

Are you forgetting about what happened at the combine? Whilst his grading was in flux in the months before the draft, from the 4th to 7th round, it was Harrison that got most of the blame for the trashing of the hotel room in Indy and that's probably why he fell to UDFA status.

I'm looking at a kid who's being compared to a first round WR this year, as well as a certain TE named Hernandez, and I'm seeing a UDFA. That's a huge difference. Trashing a room doesn't drop Benjamin to UFDA status, even with a foot injury.

 

[manxman2601]

I'm looking at a kid who's being compared to a first round WR this year, as well as a certain TE named Hernandez, and I'm seeing a UDFA. That's a huge difference. Trashing a room doesn't drop Benjamin to UFDA status, even with a foot injury.

Harrison was always being projected as a mid to late round prospect at best. Of course a combine controversy could cause him to go undrafted.

 

[Ring 6]

Mark Harrison was a productive college player as a true sophomore he had 44 receptions, 829 yards, and 9 touchdowns, he then dealt with injuries as a junior but returned as a senior with 44 receptions, 583 yards, and 6 touchdowns. He then showed up at the 2013 NFL combine and stole the show with these metrics.

Combine Invite: Yes
Height: 6027
Weight: 231
40 Yard Dash: 4.37
20 Yard Dash: 2.58
10 Yard Dash: 1.59
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 17
Vertical Jump: 38 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'09"
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.33
3-Cone Drill: 6.99

He was one of the most coveted UDFA last season.

Patriots sign coveted UDFA Mark Harrison | NEPatriotsDraft.com - 2014 NFL Draft

If you do not see potential in this kid you are too caught up in where players are selected, he had production, and ridiculous metrics at the combine, he did things only Calvin Johnson and a handful of other players have done in combine history. He is a raw talent, but nobody develops talent better than Belichick and his staff.

I hate those kind of 'only' things. It really means one of his numbers was exceptional and the rest don't stink.
Mike and Mike are famous for this stuff:
First player since Mickey Mantle to have 20 HRs, 100 RBIs hit .300 and 17 Sacrifice Flies.
1000s of players did the first 3, and the 4th eliminates most of them and makes it sound like a rare combination but is only rare because of one outlier.

 

[ripatsfan91]

I hate those kind of 'only' things. It really means one of his numbers was exceptional and the rest don't stink.
Mike and Mike are famous for this stuff:
First player since Mickey Mantle to have 20 HRs, 100 RBIs hit .300 and 17 Sacrifice Flies.
1000s of players did the first 3, and the 4th eliminates most of them and makes it sound like a rare combination but is only rare because of one outlier.

I would say its very rare to find a 6'3 230lb receiver who runs a 4.3 40 sub 7 second 3 cone and has a nearly 39 inch vertical.

I am intrigued on what Harrison brings because 1. he is a physical freak and 2. Read an article that stated several GMs who interviewed Harrison pre-draft all viewed Harrison as more of a TE prospect than WR.