Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what the Patriots used to do to the Colts

[ivanvamp]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

You're not the only one who has been skeptical. Manxman's been leading that cry for a while now.

My main hope is that some brutal losses like this and the fact that the Pats have had a dominant 3 year run (39-9 in the regular season) in which they have come close but been unable to finish the job in the postseason (3-3 in the playoffs over those 3 years, with a loss in each of the divisional round, AFCCG and SB) may convince him that it's time to shake things up a bit, on both offense and defense.

The last AFCCG loss was the catalyst for the conversion to a more wide open offense, with the acquisitions of Moss and Welker and the advent of the spread. Perhaps this loss will be the catalyst for the reversion to a more physical, punishing brand of football on both sides of the LOS. The Steelers (2008 victory, 2010 appearance), Giants (2007, 2011 victories) and Ravens and 49ers this year are all proof that you can get to and win the Super Bowl while still playing a very physical, punishing style.

Adding Dennard, Spikes, and Hightower are a good start. All of those guys play a very physical style of football. And McCourty is a pretty physical guy too. Mayo is no pushover. I don't know who is out there that represents a real improvement to what they have in this department. Any ideas?

 

[Kontradiction]

Isn't that what Lloyd does according to some??

I understand that you have some sort of personal vendetta against the guy, but I don't think that you'll find many people here who would claim that Lloyd is physical.

Care to elaborate? He has a reputation for getting personal fouls, for trash talking after delivering devastating hits, and most of all for delivering those devastating hits.

He's smallish (5'10"), so there could be durability issues. I don't know of any of the off-field issues one often worries about with an Urban Meyer recruit, though.

I mean that he'll be long gone by the time we pick.

If you remember back to the regular season, they did exactly the same in that game. We all complained that the replacement refs lost control of the game. Apparently Goodell gave them the okay to mug our receivers, since it wasn't called this time either.

I guess hands to the face isn't as cut and dried as we thought it was.

Credit them, though, for realizing that they'd be allowed to get away with it, and then taking advantage of it. The Patriots never made them pay. If it had been the other way around, we'd be defending the Patriots.

 

[DocHoliday]

We don't need to revert to a ground and pound or anything we just need reviewers who arent short and can jump.

Pretty much the Giants and Ravens receivers minus Torrey Smith, who Dennard mugged all game to my delight.

 

[serifyn]

Nobody you bring in here is going to play better than Welker if only because they don't know the system as well, if you got rid of Welker, you're only hope would be that Edelman or someone else who already knows the offense can pick up the slack, i have my doubts.

The Patriots didn't lose because of Welker yesterday, the ran into a team who know how to stop them and had officials who allowed the Ravens to play the Physical game they wanted to play.

The Real question is whether you sign welker to a longterm deal or you franchise him again, you will have Jake Ballard next year and depending on how well he plays, you may consider it a better investment to sign him to a learnterm deal when he becomes a free agent after 2013.

Aaron Hernandez is for all intent and purposes a WR now, and he is the perfect kind of target for Brady who makes short passes and relies mostly on YAK.

Once again, there is no other WR you can bring in here who will know the system well enough to produce at a level close to what Welker was, and therefore, you're offense will be worse. At such a critical point of Brady's Career and when you are arguably at the peak of your talent level as a team, can you afford to let your best WR walk? The Answer is no. If you want to make sweeping changes, make them on defense.

 

[wrinkle]

Being a Colts fan I hope the Pats do get rid of Welker, I'd love to see Welker catching passes from Andrew Luck. Welker gets ragged by pats fans which is so screwed up because he's the best **** receiver they've ever had!!!

 

[Kontradiction]

Being a Colts fan I hope the Pats do get rid of Welker, I'd love to see Welker catching passes from Andrew Luck. Welker gets ragged by pats fans which is so screwed up because he's the best **** receiver they've ever had!!!

If that's the case, then the Colts would have to get in line for his services. Then, when he signs elsewhere next year, the Pats fans trying to convince themselves that it would be a great idea to let him go will be the same ones crying about Belichick pissing away Brady's golden years when the offense stalls in a big game against a physical defense next season.

 

[ausbacker]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

I had thought of Bowe. He will probably reach FA. The question is $$$$. He probably wants Vincent Jackson kind of money. But he's been a productive, reliable receiver, and he would provide the large target and physical outside presence that we've lacked.

I think the money issue makes it a long shot, but it wouldn't completely shock me if the FO decided that it was time to shake things up. I have no idea. But we've gone 39-9 in the regular season the last 3 years while only going 3-3 in the post-season, so they may decide that something more is needed to get over the top.

It would have been handy if Danario Alexander would have come across from the Rams to the Patriots with McDaniels.

As for the Ravens. They beat the Pats (under the terms of the game) fair and square. No qualms from me for using a successful strategy.

 

[mayoclinic]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

Adding Dennard, Spikes, and Hightower are a good start. All of those guys play a very physical style of football. And McCourty is a pretty physical guy too. Mayo is no pushover. I don't know who is out there that represents a real improvement to what they have in this department. Any ideas?

We just got a lot more physical and agressive on our line, IMHO, by adding this guy:

Here's some film from the CFL this year:

Armond Armstead 2012 CFL All-Star Highlight Video - YouTube

Only highlights, but you get a sense of the kid's power and explosiveness. Physically, he's got the ability to be a dominant player inside or out.

 

[ForThoseAboutToRock]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

I think the money issue makes it a long shot, but it wouldn't completely shock me if the FO decided that it was time to shake things up. I have no idea. But we've gone 39-9 in the regular season the last 3 years while only going 3-3 in the post-season, so they may decide that something more is needed to get over the top.

I agree with your first point here. I'm generalizing here, but the tight salary cap really doesn't seem to lend much flexibility to wheeling and dealing... you'd likely end up with an uncomfortable % of the cap tied to dead money.

You've gotta give credit to the Ravens for seizing an opportunity to get to the AFCC 2x in a row while within an important window of their franchise history. They're getting very very good postseason QB play out of a guy on his rookie contract. They'll not have that kind of advantage for the next ~10 years! They've also got 2 HOF defenders playing a last stand that must be truly inspiring to those who like the Ravens - it's all coincided and they've not missed their opportunity by much.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

I mean that he'll be long gone by the time we pick.

Then we need to get someone in Gainesville to sell him some herbs to make that stock drop...

 

[hoeilaart]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

When we beat the Colts, we outplayed them. Same thing with what happened with the Ravens outplaying us Sunday. People can rationalize it however they want to. It's not like the Ravens employed a new tactic we've never seen before. They just did it better than anybody. And our guys just didn't meet the challenge.

Wrong. Any other team (any other Sunday) gets called for holding or illegal contact and the game is played within the rules.

 

[olschool]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

It's time to turn the page on welker. The patriots let Deion branch walk after proving how dependable he was in the postseason....unlike welker.

WRONG. Welker catches well over 100 passes a year. He's almost indefensible in Brady's quick time game, and is Brady's go to guy period.

He's reliable, durable, as tough as they come, and the most profilic WR in the league since he got here.

That he's too short to grab an overthrown pass, on the rare occasion that Brady tosses one, to me is Brady's fault not Welker's.

Of the thousands of passes thrown his way, I can remember only a few dropped passes that should have been easy catches. The misses in the playoffs may be more magnified, but for the most part I still blame them on Brady, not Wes.

There isn't anyone who's 100% perfect. Never has been, never will be.

 

[captain stone]

Re: Mangini: The Ravens did to the Patriots what they used to do to the Colts

Adding Dennard, Spikes, and Hightower are a good start. All of those guys play a very physical style of football. And McCourty is a pretty physical guy too. Mayo is no pushover. I don't know who is out there that represents a real improvement to what they have in this department. Any ideas?

No ideas yet on his replacement (we'll see who's available when the free agency period starts),
but Steve Gregory does not belong on the field during possible running situations (except for
The ButtFumble). He is strictly a Centerfielder who, when paired w/ McCourty, make up one of
the lightest, least intimidating Safety combos in football.
Otherwise, the rest of the defense is tough enough, especially vs the run.

 

[Triumph]

I miss the days when our defense used to play physical. Watch this video from 2:51. Pats classics- 2003 AFC Championship vs Colts - YouTube
Spikes has been a nice physical presence but he needs some help from a safety and corner back.

NE won Super Bowls because of defense. They never had to score 30+ points to get the job done and until they change the rules to basketball, nothing has changed. The more physical defense will usually prevail.

The Pats have been B slapped in 2 SBs, the WC round, Division round and now the Championship round. The highest scoring offense in the NFL produced 1 TD and 2 FGs when it mattered the most.

After NE beat Pitt in the 2004 AFCC, John Clayton was quoted as saying that "NE has 3 or 4 guys that will grab you by throat and refuse to lose."

Where are those guys today?