Lazar: Pats call different plays for Mac than Zappe

[catent]

The quarterback doesn't call the play, but they sit in the meeting rooms all week, were present during all of training camp, practices, preparation, and they talk with their coaches, tell them the concepts they like, what they're seeing, what they're comfortable running.

It's been reported that the offensive direction this offseason was shaped, in part, with Jones' skillset and preferences in mind. No doubt he has a legitimate role in which plays are being called when he's out there.

 

[Rob0729]

Maybe Jones himself has something to do with the plays being called?

According to all the reports, Jones hates the new offense that he is running. If he had something to do with the play calls, they would be running an offense like they run with Zappe.

 

[Rob0729]

The quarterback doesn't call the play, but they sit in the meeting rooms all week, were present during all of training camp, practices, preparation, and they talk with their coaches, tell them the concepts they like, what they're seeing, what they're comfortable running.

It's been reported that the offensive direction this offseason was shaped, in part, with Jones' skillset and preferences in mind. No doubt he has a legitimate role in which plays are being called when he's out there.

Where has it been reported that they offensive direction was shaped by Jones' preferences? It is clear from training camp that Jones doesn't like the offensive scheme. There have been a number of occasions that he has let things slip that shows his disdain for it.

In fact, there are rumors that there is a rift between Jones and Patricia and Judge because Jones kept asking why they are doing this offense because he doesn't get the strategy of it.

 

[jdlboot14]

I wouldn't doubt that Mac did come in with a big chip on his shoulder. Maybe his quick "success" his first year went to his head a bit, and maybe he's been ****y and picky in the offensive game planning, and we all know Matty P doesn't like being challenged. So, could be they actually wanted him to eat some crow. We'll see if Mac can rebound. But if there's a brain cell between BB and MP, I can't imagine them sitting Mac this week. That would be essentially giving up on your 2nd year 1st round pick after 21.1 games - and that doesn't happen.

 

[catent]

According to all the reports, Jones hates the new offense that he is running. If he had something to do with the play calls, they would be running an offense like they run with Zappe.

Can you provide one of the reports that says Jones "hates" the new offense?

I'll try my hand at it:
-
“I think we laid our foundation of what we want to do and what the coaches want to do. We’ve definitely bought into that,” Jones said. “There’s things that I’ve done in the past. There are things that I like, and we’re trying to incorporate them more. Or things that coach (Bill) Belichick sees on film and he’s like, ‘hey what do you think about this?’ So it’s very fluid and for them to be able to take some of our thoughts is really important.

“I think the really good offenses in the NFL, you can tell that the play-callers and the quarterback are on the same page. So I think we’re getting there and that’s the progress we need, and I’ve been really pleased with that.”
-

Guregian: Patriots QB Mac Jones sounds at peace with new offense

Finally, Mac Jones sees the Patriots offense moving in the right direction.

www.bostonherald.com

 

[Lagaffe_07]

According to all the reports, Jones hates the new offense that he is running. If he had something to do with the play calls, they would be running an offense like they run with Zappe.

Evan Lazar talked multiple time on PU that the offense that the patriots are running with Mac is based on thing that Mac ran in Alabama. Almost exclusively in shot gun, almost no under center plays, WR everywhere, RPO, throwing down the field.

That could explain why Bill seems to look not so hot with Jones. Because maybe he feels that they tailored the offense to what he likes after he complain in the offseason and he is not delivering.

 

[Rob0729]

Can you provide one of the reports that says Jones "hates" the new offense?

I'll try my hand at it:

Guregian: Patriots QB Mac Jones sounds at peace with new offense

Finally, Mac Jones sees the Patriots offense moving in the right direction.

www.bostonherald.com

Thank you for providing an article proving you are wrong and the media did report that Jones hated the new offense right off the bat.

Did you read the article or just the headline? The entire article is about how Jones initially hated the new offense but has come to terms and peace with accepting the cards he was dealt.

 

[Rob0729]

Evan Lazar talked multiple time on PU that the offense that the patriots are running with Mac is based on thing that Mac ran in Alabama. Almost exclusively in shot gun, almost no under center plays, WR everywhere, RPO, throwing down the field.

That could explain why Bill seems to look not so hot with Jones. Because maybe he feels that they tailored the offense to what he likes after he complain in the offseason and he is not delivering.

Alabama is a huge RPO offense. Yet they do not run it here at all with him. Jones' senior year, 19% of Jones' passing plays were RPO plays. And he had great success in it. From Lazar:

Going back to his Alabama days, Jones had the third-highest rate of his passes come off RPO schemes in the 2021 quarterback class (19%). Furthermore, in his final season with the Crimson Tide, Jones lit up defenses with these schemes: 73-of-78, 890 yards, ten touchdowns, and zero interceptions for a near-perfect passer rating of 153.8.

Are RPOs Coming to the Patriots Offense in Mac Jones's Second Season?

The Patriots quarterback explained why he likes run-pass options on Wednesday.

www.patriots.com

This offense is not tailored for Jones. Not at all. Jones has been against the offense from day one.

And Jones did do a lot of play action in college. I don't get where you have him almost exclusively in the gun at Alabama:

A whopping 58% of Jones’ dropbacks were RPOs, screens, or play action passes. That was the third-highest rate among eligible Power 5 quarterbacks (minimum 100 attempts) and can make evaluating Jones difficult, regardless of whether you choose to do so statistically or traditionally.

The not-so-curious case of Mac Jones

A careful examination of Jones' strengths and weaknesses.

www.sportsinfosolutions.com

Some of the assistance Jones got from the offense shows up in this section, as well. Jones’ play-action / RPO rate of 53.03% is astronomically high. Even if we assume the NFL’s play-action / RPO rate is increasing, over 50% is not a realistic number in the pros. From 2019 and on, the only other QBs to clear the 45%-plus mark in this area are Drew Lock, Kyler Murray, and Tua Tagovailoa. That’s not the worst company, honestly, but it’s still worth recognizing much of Jones’ production came easier than other QBs, which is especially concerning when Jones does not have the playmaking element those other QBs had/have.

Quantifying Quarterbacks: Mac Jones | QB KlassRoom

In college, Jones was a phenomenal play action and RPO QB. So far the Patriots have done little to exploit that skill set of his. In fact, I have been calling for this since last year.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

And Jones did do a lot of play action in college. I don't get where you have him almost exclusively in the gun at Alabama:

You know that you can run play action from the gun right? It’s less effective than play action under center. That’s why college team run RPO’s to help play action from the gun.

In the same article you posted, Evan wrote that Mac has been under center only 11 plays during his entire Alabama career.

 

[Rob0729]

You know that you can run play action from the gun right? It’s less effective than play action under center. That’s why college team run RPO’s to help play action from the gun.

In the same article you posted, Evan wrote that Mac has been under center only 11 plays during his entire Alabama career.

How often have the Pats ran play action out of the gun this year with Jones? I don't care if it is under center or out of the gun, the Pats are not running play action or RPOs which goes against your incorrect theory that this offense is designed after the Alabama offense. It was more designed after the Shanahan and McVey offenses.

I admit I misspoke about the gun part.

 

[catent]

"Matty P. calls the same game for both of us," Zappe responded. "Speaking for me, I always tell Matty P. (to) call whatever he wants and I’ll try to make it work for him. So, that's kind of the mindset we go into every game. Whether it's me or Mac playing, I think it's the same game plan no matter what."

Bailey Zappe's comment about Patriots' play-calling is telling

Bailey Zappe appears to have a very different philosophy than Mac Jones when it comes to executing Matt Patricia’s plays in the Patriots’ offense.

www.nbcsports.com

 

[PatsFan2]

Good take.

Makes sense, Mac wanting to run things closer to what he did in College. Only issue is in terms of pass catchers, we don't come close in terms of talent to the wrs Mac was throwing to @ Bama.

We are getting there with T Thornton and Parker.

 

[Rob0729]

"Matty P. calls the same game for both of us," Zappe responded. "Speaking for me, I always tell Matty P. (to) call whatever he wants and I’ll try to make it work for him. So, that's kind of the mindset we go into every game. Whether it's me or Mac playing, I think it's the same game plan no matter what."

Bailey Zappe's comment about Patriots' play-calling is telling

Bailey Zappe appears to have a very different philosophy than Mac Jones when it comes to executing Matt Patricia’s plays in the Patriots’ offense.

www.nbcsports.com

This is obviously not the truth because all you need to do is look at the disparity in the number of play action calls between the two. I don't care how each QB executes the play, all you need to do is look at the fact that one QB lines up under center and drops back into play action close to 40% of the passes and the other does it about 10% of the time to know they are calling plays differently for each QB.

 

[Love The Drake]

Yeah, I don't get that they don't mix it up with Jones. Even when Brady was here, he was constantly killing opposing defenses with death by a thousand paper cuts type of methodical offense. Brady would take his shots down field, but he lived off the slant pick plays.

With Jones, it seems that they want him to constantly throw for first downs whether it is first and ten or 3rd and 2. It is all vertical. He has some plays that are designed to have short passes, but most are over 8-10 yards it seems.

Maybe they think his accuracy for those short passes isn’t suitable
Based on the way Zappe is answering I think he is being told or feels he has a strong chance to be the guy.

Bill and Matt love a yes man and Bailey would call Matt Patricia an offensive genius if it meant living out his dream.
Mac being a first round pedigree and playing for Alabama questions things and makes his own suggestions which doesn’t seem to fly right.
So honestly if Marty isn’t comfortable getting feedback or having a conversation with his QB this is alarming on all fronts.

 

[Love The Drake]

Let’s look at the facts on this.
Bourne a bigger attitude guy but it worked with Mcdaniels.
This season he was in the dog house.
Shaq Mason traded for peanuts.
Isiah Wynn is now a malcontent and is posturing for a trade on top of playing the worst football in his professional career.
Mac Jones performance and field awareness seems to have fallen off a cliff.
This isn’t the same guy.
He is playing like a backups backup.
Trent Brown all of a sudden has a half dozen penalties.

How loyal will Bill be to Patricia and Judge Vs his young first round QB is the only real question.

 

[Rob0729]

Maybe they think his accuracy for those short passes isn’t suitable
Based on the way Zappe is answering I think he is being told or feels he has a strong chance to be the guy.

Bill and Matt love a yes man and Bailey would call Matt Patricia an offensive genius if it meant living out his dream.
Mac being a first round pedigree and playing for Alabama questions things and makes his own suggestions which doesn’t seem to fly right.
So honestly if Marty isn’t comfortable getting feedback or having a conversation with his QB this is alarming on all fronts.

Why would they think that when Jones had pinpoint accuracy both in college and last year with short passes? If they think that, then they may be less qualified for their positions than people think.

The yes man thing could be valid, but most QBs are not yes men. I can remember brady have huge arguments with both Bill O'Brien and McDaniels on the sidelines of games. Obviously, Jones doesn't have the resume or talent of Brady, but most starting QBs are not yes men.

 

[Love The Drake]

Why would they think that when Jones had pinpoint accuracy both in college and last year with short passes? If they think that, then they may be less qualified for their positions than people think.

The yes man thing could be valid, but most QBs are not yes men. I can remember brady have huge arguments with both Bill O'Brien and McDaniels on the sidelines of games. Obviously, Jones doesn't have the resume or talent of Brady, but most starting QBs are not yes men.

Correct but we saw this with Malcom Butler we saw this with Darius Slay,
Matt will bench trade or alienate a player if they don’t mesh.
Hes like that high school coach who will play the slower less coordinated player because he says yes sir and opens doors.

 

[jimnance]

I would bet he definitely does. I'm not blaming one coach or just the coaching staff in general. It's the whole operation that's just a bit head scratching is all.

One of BB's traits has always been don't stick to something that's not working. Doesn't matter who is responsible for the bizarre play-calling when Mac plays-it's not f'n working.
So change it. Now. You hear me?

 

[signbabybrady]

Correct but we saw this with Malcom Butler we saw this with Darius Slay,
Matt will bench trade or alienate a player if they don’t mesh.
Hes like that high school coach who will play the slower less coordinated player because he says yes sir and opens doors.

Not saying this is even going on but if it were how dare a coach want to work with players who want to work with him. If Mac isn't buying in and letting other players work more/better with the play caller then he shares a large part of the responsibility too. I know there's been reports but there also been reports that were proven to come from a catfish. I need more evidence before I buy reports like this. Play on the field is anecdotal I'd need something truly substantial before going there.

 

[Rob0729]

Correct but we saw this with Malcom Butler we saw this with Darius Slay,
Matt will bench trade or alienate a player if they don’t mesh.
Hes like that high school coach who will play the slower less coordinated player because he says yes sir and opens doors.

I am concerned that Patricia seems to have ruined both Jones and Bourne for this team. I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt this offseason and preseason when people were trashing him, but I have come to the decision they are right about him. Jones may never have turned into a very good starter if McDaniels stayed or they got an experienced OC, but I don't think he would be as bad as he has been this year. And Bourne was arguably the Pats' best receiver last year and now he is an afterthought.

I can add that Henry has gone from leading the league in TDs by a TE last year to invisible when Mac is on the field. The fact that they use him when Zappe is playing redeems Patricia a little in this area, but he has taken away all the strengths of the offense for much of this year.