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Kirwin's 3-4 Draft Perspective [merged]

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by ayjackson, Mar 18, 2007.

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  1. ayjackson

    ayjackson Rookie

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  2. BelichickFan

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    Re: Kirwin's 3-4 Draft Perspective

    Not so subtle reminder to keep Anthony Waters in mind, we have LB for this year (although we could use a little depth) but could afford a second day pick to wait on a guy with big time upside.
  3. PonyExpress

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    Re: Kirwin's 3-4 Draft Perspective

    I know DaBruinz has been high on Waters for months. Bradley should definitely be on that list, and IMO DeOssie seems like a project pick who is being overrated due to name recognition. I haven't seen DeOssie play a down, but I have heard from multiple sources, including his own father, that Zak is not a physical player, relying more on keen intellect than brute force to position himself correctly. That's all fine, but an almost psychotic love of violence seems like a prerequisite for ILB in the NFL. Tim Shaw's experience at both ILB and DE seems to make him an ideal ILB prospect, not OLB as Kirwan writes. I'm beating a dead horse that many people have shot more than once, but I like Siler for ILB.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2007
  4. Box_O_Rocks

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    Re: Kirwin's 3-4 Draft Perspective

    Interesting that all three ILB selections are perceived as run stuffers who struggle against the pass. A good read nontheless.
  5. Box_O_Rocks

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    Re: Kirwin's 3-4 Draft Perspective

    That's okay, if they are shooting the dead horse it keeps you out of the line of fire.

    I love that Shaw has played and done well at mutiple positions, unfortunately, he's closer to 6'1" than 6'2", and 236 on a guy who looked slim in shorts doesn't inspire me to set aside my biases. He's the kind of kid I wish I could find a place to play.

    I agree with you on Zach, when I read intellectual and not as physical I think second day project. I agree with Kirwin's OLB assessment, with his speed I think a place could be found on passing downs. I would hope some of the hitters on the team would inspire him, but for the moment he projects second day/situational & Special Teams player to me.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2007
  6. captain stone

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    Re: Kirwin's 3-4 Draft Perspective


    Also interesting that all 3 ILB selections are not named Willis, Posluszny, or Siler. What's Kirwan trying to say, if anything?
  7. Box_O_Rocks

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    Re: Kirwin's 3-4 Draft Perspective

    I'm hoping his use of a "number" of coaches and scouts allowed him to control for people trying to use his article to throw a monkey wrench into someone else's draft board. Since I never saw any of the three as good 3-4 fits, I'm hoping this is an accurate assessment from his panel.

    Though we probably should check and see if PATSNUTMe needs therapy.
  8. sebman2112

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    Re: Kirwin's 3-4 Draft Perspective

    At least they seem to like Carriker, Spencer, Woodley, Harrell, Harris, Bishop, Shaw, and DeOssie. All players I like by the way, and have talked about. I still think Willis would be awsome behind NE's line with AD Vrabel, and Colvin playing next to him. I haven't been on Posluzny's jock so it is no surprise to me. The problem is that he is basically projecting ILB's in college who can play 3-4 ILB, but he doesn't project the DE's who can play ILB. Vrabel and Bruschi were both defensive ends.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2007
  9. VJCPatriot

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    Re: Kirwin's 3-4 Draft Perspective

    Huh you need a psychotic love for violence to be an effective ILB? Give me a fundamentally sound player with a high motor any time over a mere psycho. Got to have skills too. Zak was a team leader at Brown and he has intangibles that will make him an asset at linebacker. Even if he doesn't meet your "psychotic love for violence" requirement I think he'll be a good one.

    So please tell me how you measure this "psychotic love for violence" quotient and let me know how guys like Siler, Waters etc. compare in that quotient to current Patriots like Bruschi, AD, Vrabel, etc. I really would like to know how you arrived at this scientific measurement and if our current players stack up to your new requirement. Thanks! ;)
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2007
  10. PonyExpress

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    Re: Kirwin's 3-4 Draft Perspective

    The "almost psychotic love of violence" I refer to is uniquely between the lines and in no way refers to a player's behavior off-field. It takes a somewhat deranged individual to defeat blocks vs. 300 lb guards and blow up 220 lb rbs play after play, game after game, year after year. The ILB must love contact, embrace contact, live for the thrill of contact. This love of violence gives him an edge, and only with that edge can he take the field without fear, and dominate. All the great ILBs in history have exhibited this character trait... Nitschke, Huff, Butkus, Lambert, Singletary, Carson, Lewis, yes, Bruschi and Ted Johnson, too. In this draft Buster Davis has it, Willis has it, Siler has it for sure. Without it, they would be too terrified to do what has to be done at the NFL level. Unfortunately, at times elite ILBs carry this burden with them off the field and walk a dangerous line in the civilian world. BB recognizes that the ILB position requires unique and complex individuals. That is what drew him to talents such as Channing Crowder and Odell Thurman in their respective drafts, before passing on them, and why he expressed such admiration for Ernie Sims, another player who exhibits this trait in his on-field play. Your welcome (is there a middle finger icon?).
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2007
  11. notex

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    who could play 3-4 next year....

    I thought that this would be a good article to post because I think alot of people are wondering who might fit into our system...this isnt breaking news and i think the articles been up for a while but didnt see it posted (sorry if it was, just delete the thread if this is a repeat). myself, i never played football - i honestly have no idea how to classify a player as "3-4" or "4-3" or what a cover 2 defense really is....anyways this is for people like me i guess who want to see some players im sure the pats have their eyes on...


    http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/10066679

    Last edited: Mar 18, 2007
  12. patsox23

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    Re: who could play 3-4 next year....

    interesting article. Thanks for posting.
  13. JoePats

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    Re: who could play 3-4 next year....

    Good stuff except for noting that Terry Bradway runs the Jets. I wish Terry Bradway still ran the Jets.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2007
  14. AzPatsFan

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    Re: who could play 3-4 next year....

    not anymore...
  15. AzPatsFan

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    Re: who could play 3-4 next year....

    I pro prosed to a couple of posters that I thought David Harris was the best 3-4 ILB on the board. Better than Willis. Better than Siler and not a first round reach,at all. This article confirms my opinion. Harris is not flashy,but has tremendous instincts; and he stops the run head-on.

    His pass coverage was rated good when everyone thought he was a 4.8 guy, just that the couldn't cover very long. Now turns out to be a 4.55 at the combine.

    I also suggested that the only DL that I was interested in was a second day pick of Paul Soliai. He was the best NT on the board, a confirmed two-gapper, and a massive guy at 6-4 345 5.11, and a better backup for Wilfork than anyone else.

    I also thought that picking Zak DeOssie at the end of the third round was not a reach, in a 3-4 draft list. Another prognostication confimed by this author.
  16. smg93

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    Pat Kirwan Article on Draft Boards of 3-4 vs. 4-3 teams

    http://nfl.com/draft/story/10066679

    Interesting article on how teams look at the draft. Should give us some insight on who the Pats may be targetting on the defensive side of the ball on April 28.

    "(March 17, 2007) -- Draft boards are set up differently around the National Football League. A team that uses a 3-4 defense is going to see talent from a much different perspective than a 4-3 team, for example.

    It wasn't too long ago that a team like the Pittsburgh Steelers merely had to figure out which college defensive ends could become 3-4 outside linebackers in order to continue to build their famous 3-4 package. The Chargers figured Shawne Merriman would be a perfect fit for their 3-4 defense, and they were right.

    But over time, things have changed and now the Patriots, Jets, Browns, Chargers, Cowboys and 49ers are all looking for the same players. When you throw in the hybrid defenses that like to jump back and forth from 3-4 to 4-3 packages, there is a much bigger drain on all of the front-seven positions for the 3-4. Don't get me wrong -- great players can play in any scheme, but building a front-seven unit is much different.
    "
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2007
  17. NYCPatsFan

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    Re: Pat Kirwan Article on Draft Boards of 3-4 vs. 4-3 teams

    Dang! You just beat me to it. :)

    Thought it was a very informative article for guys who like me who don't know much.
  18. smg93

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    Re: Pat Kirwan Article on Draft Boards of 3-4 vs. 4-3 teams

    Haha :D. Important thing though is at least it gives us a new article to debate on other than the who's the better WR, RB, LB, in FA that we've had on here for the most part. Those things are interesting and important too, but I thought this would give the board a change of pace from a discussion standpoint.
  19. patfanken

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    Re: Pat Kirwan Article on Draft Boards of 3-4 vs. 4-3 teams

    The most INTERESTING thing about this very good article is who is missing from his analysis. Patrick Willis was conspicuous in his absence at EITHER ILB or OLB. Why was that????

    BTW I'm actually getting excited about the prospect of a David Harris pick at 28 I never thought I'd consider a LB in the first.
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2007
  20. Pat the Pats Fan

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    Re: Pat Kirwan Article on Draft Boards of 3-4 vs. 4-3 teams

    Great article, thanks for sharing...

    It will be interesting to see what round these players are drafted and by whom..
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