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Judge Nelson rules in favor of the players


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Since it is a trade association and no longer a Union, I hope the owners really stick it to the players and refuse to sign any free agent for anything more than $100K (since there is no league minimum). I also hope that the owners shut down all facilities that are considered benefits and force the players to go be like every other joe blow. Pay for their own insurance. Pay for their own doctors.

If the players don't like it, tough sh!t. That's the free market. That's what they want with their idiocy of decertifying and not taking the owners last offer for what it was. A starting point.

These over-paid primadonnas need to a good swift kick in their balls. And they need to realize that the "AGENTS" weren't out there working for the players. The agents were working for themselves. And Drew Rosenhous' comments today made that plain and clear.

A year of some of them being paid like SH!T and others being paid well will get them back to the bargaining table with their hat in hand.

But right now, it's truly what is needed.
 
One superior court judge in Minnesota has ruled the decertification is valid. There are appeals courts for a reason, as AZ has tried to point out to you repeatedly to no avail.


By every account available to the public Judge nelson wrote her opinion using the precedents set by rulings of the Appellate Court the case is going to. There is a decent chance right now that they will refuse to even consider it because Nelson's decision is so sound it is unappealable.

I'm well aware of the appeals process and anyone who has read what i have been saying realizes that, I just don't see the owners getting any relief there and believe that Judge Nelson has expedited the process by crafting a really solid and unequivocal decision. The owners need to realize that they are on the verge of game-set-match and go to the table with a fair deal for all.
 
I don't see any reason teams should have to provide off season training facilities for these players absent collective bargaining agreement. Heck, they used to have a hard time getting them into them when there was... That seems to be the tack the league is taking in the interim. The facility doors are open but there is no staff on hand or access to equipment...

The league seems poised to contend that it is being ordered to set itself up for irreperable harm as a result of this injunction by being forced into operating in the absence of a CBA to protect it from anti trust litigation and potential treble damage awards. The judge has now given the players until 9AM Wednesday to counter the NFL's brief filed last night for a temporary stay of the injunction pending appeal to the 8th Circuit. Greg Giello has twitted that teams need a few days to sort out what the league rules would even be if a stay is not granted. And he has noted that in it's last proposal to the union the leagues off season programs would not even be underway yet. And absent a CBA they can set a new league year date that would delay FA for some weeks yet. All of which may hint that if forced to open themselves up to anti trust litigation the league might as well do so on terms that they can live with in the interim. As Andrew Brandt opined today, this court case is never going to be heard to it's ultimate end - it will be settled at some future date in the form of a new CBA. Playing under rules both favorable to ownership and absent a union and arbitration protections for players in the interim (as opposed even to playing under 2010 rules of an expiring CBA that didn't work out as well as the NFLPA led players to assume it would) might well result in the non union workforce deciding to push to settle sooner than later just to get their protective union membership benefits back... Something judge Nelson failed to grasp in all this, because had she opted not to grant the injunction that too would have sped up the process of completing an eventual CBA. All she's accomplished this week is extending the rounds of briefing and posturing and rhetoric.

All I know is if someone was going to sue me either way, that's the route I'd follow in the interim. My revenue sharing rules, my cap rules, my FA rules, my rookie contract rules, my drug testing rules (I'd have informed them that they can't access the training equipment until they pass their HgH blood test...), my personal conduct policy rules, my recovery of signing bonus rules, etc. unless a CBA comes along and negotiates a different landscape where I am insulated from anti trust while still operating under terms I can live comfortably with for the forseeable future.

This whole decertification and lockout strategy is really just a high stakes game of courtroom chicken. It takes guts to win at chicken. At this point my money would be on 32 owners being able to remain united and firm in the face of the remote possibility of treble damage awards materializing in 2-3 years as opposed to 1900 players remaining united and firm in the face of life on non union terms for the next 2-3 seasons which for many of them could constitute their remaining NFL careers.

The judge has given the players room to beat the league's argument of irreperable harm in the interim because she has invited the players to respond to the motion to the league's filed to stay her order. In my opinion the plaintiff players can and should agree to reasonable terms during the pendancy of the action and in response pleading to the league's motion to stay. The plaintiff's can stipulate to the 2010 CBA rules while the matter is pending and in my opinion that is the players best strategy. The judge could modify her order and include that in her injunction and 8th circuit will not flip that order as it leaves the parties in a position that is closest to the status quo prior to the onset of litigation.

Eventually this case will settle as the league set up simply doesn't work under anti-trust rules and the neither the majority of players nor the owners will win if this case is taken to its conclusion. Contrary to many on this board I believe court's can and do excersize leverage to encourage settlement. Right now the court is pushing the owners. I think you will see a shift in court rulings if the plaintiff players don't offer some kind of compromise.
 
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Since it is a trade association and no longer a Union, I hope the owners really stick it to the players and refuse to sign any free agent for anything more than $100K (since there is no league minimum). I also hope that the owners shut down all facilities that are considered benefits and force the players to go be like every other joe blow. Pay for their own insurance. Pay for their own doctors.

If the players don't like it, tough sh!t. That's the free market. That's what they want with their idiocy of decertifying and not taking the owners last offer for what it was. A starting point.

These over-paid primadonnas need to a good swift kick in their balls. And they need to realize that the "AGENTS" weren't out there working for the players. The agents were working for themselves. And Drew Rosenhous' comments today made that plain and clear.

A year of some of them being paid like SH!T and others being paid well will get them back to the bargaining table with their hat in hand.

But right now, it's truly what is needed.


I'll bet your head would explode if any poster responded in kind saying they hope the player's take the treble damages and bankrupt the league.



Your compassion for billionaires is truly admirable.
 
Thats the way it is. Schefter has mentioned the NFLPA operating as a trade association a few times.

We all know that the NFLPA will go right back to being a union when its finally over.


The reason the players recertified to begin with was because the owners demanded it as a term of agreeing to the initial CBA. the owners opted out of the CBA so the players had no obligation to remain in a union the owners demanded they form to facilitate the CBA.

I agree they will recertify if a new agreement is reached, and pretty much guarantee the owners will once again insist they do so for the deal to remain in place.
 
First, even the judge didn't believe that the union had actually decertified



This is a flat out lie, her decision was based upon the fact that she found the decertification valid.
 
Thats the way it is. Schefter has mentioned the NFLPA operating as a trade association a few times.

We all know that the NFLPA will go right back to being a union when its finally over.

While Schefter may have mentioned that the NFLPA is operating as a trade association, the reality is that they are not. They are operating as a UNION.

That flies in the face of the LEGAL DOCUMENTS that they filed. Ones that the judge IGNORED.

Judge Nelson IGNORED all the stipulations that the previous CBA had in it to prevent this situation. Stipulations that the PLAYERS agreed to. She basically said that the players can do whatever the hell they want, they don't have to follow the legal agreements they make.

Judge Nelson = another idiot judge who should be disbarred for stupidity.
 
While Schefter may have mentioned that the NFLPA is operating as a trade association, the reality is that they are not. They are operating as a UNION.

That flies in the face of the LEGAL DOCUMENTS that they filed. Ones that the judge IGNORED.

Judge Nelson IGNORED all the stipulations that the previous CBA had in it to prevent this situation. Stipulations that the PLAYERS agreed to. She basically said that the players can do whatever the hell they want, they don't have to follow the legal agreements they make.

Judge Nelson = another idiot judge who should be disbarred for stupidity.


So you believe Judges should require people to stay in unions they want to dissolve?
 
While Schefter may have mentioned that the NFLPA is operating as a trade association, the reality is that they are not. They are operating as a UNION.

That flies in the face of the LEGAL DOCUMENTS that they filed. Ones that the judge IGNORED.

Judge Nelson IGNORED all the stipulations that the previous CBA had in it to prevent this situation. Stipulations that the PLAYERS agreed to. She basically said that the players can do whatever the hell they want, they don't have to follow the legal agreements they make.

Judge Nelson = another idiot judge who should be disbarred for stupidity.

Its good to know that you think you know more about the law than judges. The fact remains that what the players did was legal even if you don't like it.
 
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This is a flat out lie, her decision was based upon the fact that she found the decertification valid.

Momma raised ugly children, not stupid children. And while the judge isn't all that pretty she isn't dumb enough not to see the scam that decertification really is. She is a political appointee whose ideology has overcome her disbelief. There isn't a person in America with a brain that believes that the union has disbanded, it is a ploy to gain leverage in the courts, and it has worked to date.

D Smith was the driving influence behind this mess, he has to create a work stoppage to build his reputation as a hard ass, pro labor, liberal. One of my major regrets here is that he is earning a paycheck as a lawyer for the players defense team, the NFL should have protested his involvement as a conflict. If there is a hell, there is a special place for him and all like him.
 
I'll bet your head would explode if any poster responded in kind saying they hope the player's take the treble damages and bankrupt the league.



Your compassion for billionaires is truly admirable.

And you're a fool for making wild assumptions that have no basis in reality. Keep your lies to yourself and don't put words in my mouth. Or is that the only way you actually can win an argument?

BTW, the players won't get "treble damages". And if it comes down to the league going bankrupt, then the players get zilch and the owners walk away with their money and there would be no NFL and the players would be without jobs. DUH. What a great result.

Instead of sucking the players jocks and being absolutely and completly blind, why don't you actually do some real thinking beyond your myopic little view for a change. Or can't you be bothered because of your infatuation with this idea that the players are always right and the owners are the big bad meanies.

BTW, since you aren't bright enough to figure it out, every single owner (outside of the Packers) in the league made their billions LONG BEFORE they took ownership. So, the teams going bankrupt would be a blip as a failed business venture. And what would happen? The fans would get screwed.

But you are too blind to that because of your infatuation with the players being in the right all the time.
 
This is what you fail to understand and the judge idiotically ignored. There is no RIGHT to work ANYWHERE. Not in the NFL. Not at McDonald's. And there ARE at least 3 other PROFESSIONAL football leagues that players can and HAVE gone to. The CFL, AFL and UFL. So this idea that the NFL Owners have somehow restricted the players is absolute and utter BS.
1) There isn't a court in the land that would see any of those other football leagues as legitimate competitors to the NFL. The NFL is, for all intents and purposes, a monopoly and will be treated as such in the eyes of the law. For some reason that seems to upset you, but you'll just have to deal.

2) There are over 1,000 players in the NFL under contract. They may not have the "right to work" but they certainly have the right to force NFL franchises to honor those contracts, i.e. the players want to get paid (NOTE: as I have stated several times, those contract can be terminated by the franchises, but that would make the players UFA's, and no team is going to cut any player above what they normally would have done anyway).
 
What has to happen for the staunchly pro-owners faction of fans to back off their opinions a little? At this point every authority has favored the players. The owners lost their two biggest points of leverage thanks to Doty and Nelson.

If the 8th Circuit goes the same route, will you guys rethink your stance? How many judges can you swear off before you recognize maybe the owners overshot the mark and underestimated the players a little?

The owners are smart - you go into any negotiation asking to get more than you expect. And they did that and then some, because they had leverage - the players, rightfully, held their ground as well.

Now, the owners are losing leverage by the minute. We'll see how the negotiations go from here.
 
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Since it is a trade association and no longer a Union, I hope the owners really stick it to the players and refuse to sign any free agent for anything more than $100K (since there is no league minimum).
That would be pretty solid evidence of collusion, and would lead to lawsuits and damages above and beyond what they would have been paying anyway. Plus, the owners themselves don't have the self-discipline to follow such a guideline. Suppose Peyton Manning is declared a UFA and the Colts offer him $100,000. Dont'cha think some other team might just offer a wee bit more?
I also hope that the owners shut down all facilities that are considered benefits and force the players to go be like every other joe blow. Pay for their own insurance. Pay for their own doctors.
That may be cutting off your nose to spite your face. If Wes Welker got injured, I'm sure the Pats would want their own trainers very much involved in the situation. They're not going to say, "tough turds, Wes, you're on your own!"
 
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And you're a fool for making wild assumptions that have no basis in reality. Keep your lies to yourself and don't put words in my mouth. Or is that the only way you actually can win an argument?

BTW, the players won't get "treble damages". And if it comes down to the league going bankrupt, then the players get zilch and the owners walk away with their money and there would be no NFL and the players would be without jobs. DUH. What a great result.

Instead of sucking the players jocks and being absolutely and completly blind, why don't you actually do some real thinking beyond your myopic little view for a change. Or can't you be bothered because of your infatuation with this idea that the players are always right and the owners are the big bad meanies.

BTW, since you aren't bright enough to figure it out, every single owner (outside of the Packers) in the league made their billions LONG BEFORE they took ownership. So, the teams going bankrupt would be a blip as a failed business venture. And what would happen? The fans would get screwed.

But you are too blind to that because of your infatuation with the players being in the right all the time.



Actually it would be the reward of treble damages that would bankrupt the league, so the players would get theirs. Other than that i loved the rant.


I hope they get a fair deal for all, you hope the players get screwed, so be it.
 
So you believe Judges should require people to stay in unions they want to dissolve?

Gotta love how you put words into people's mouths.

With every post you make, it becomes more clear you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about and that you have huge issues understanding the English language.

I never said that the judge should require people to stay in unions they want to dissolve.

What I said was that the judge ignored the CBA. And she did. For you to deny it it just laughable.

The CBA is quite clear regarding when/how the lawsuits (by either side) can be done. It clearly states that if the players decertify BEFORE the end of the CBA, then they give up their right to file the lawsuits that they filed.
 
These over-paid primadonnas need to a good swift kick in their balls. And they need to realize that the "AGENTS" weren't out there working for the players. The agents were working for themselves. And Drew Rosenhous' comments today made that plain and clear.

A year of some of them being paid like SH!T and others being paid well will get them back to the bargaining table with their hat in hand.

But right now, it's truly what is needed.
Hey DeBruinz, just out of curiousity, what happened to the guy who gave us all the following gems? Where did this guy go?

"From what I see, a lockout HELPS the fans because it would save them thousands of dollars by NOT having to go to the games, by NOT having to pay for Tickets (Regular or Season), by NOT having to pay for outrageous parking, by not having to pay for grossly over-priced food and watered down beer. Seems to me that the fans GAIN a lot back into their pockets. It seems to me that you think that you are ENTITLED to these things and that just isn't the case. They are a privilege , not a right." - DaBruinz, 6/18/10

"Again, Fans watching football is NOT a RIGHT. It's a privilege. I know that is a concept you clearly can't understand. Most intelligent people CAN understand that." - DaBruinz, 6/19/10

:rofl: "Wrong.... Come March 3rd or whenever the new season is officially supposed to start, if the owners have locked out the players, then the owners won't be sending out season ticket invoices.." - DaBruinz, 6/19/10 :rofl:

"I'm the type of person who knows that there is absolutely NOTHING I can do regarding whether or not there is a work stoppage in the NFL so I am not going to bother wasting the time or energy on it ... So, while you huff and puff and waste your energy being pissed off over something you can't control, I'll be doing other things with my time.
" - DaBruinz, 6/19/10

Where'd this guy go? Should we file a missing persons report?
 
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The NFL's application for a stay is really good. I don't know if it's available yet on line. Two key parts are copied below. First is the section on the appropriate standard in the trial court for a stay pending appeal. As you'll see, the District of Minnesota has dealt with the problem that district court judges usually think they are correct, but that's not the standard -- the standard is whether the issues on appeal are "wholly free from doubt." Second are the two paragraphs from the brief that, I think, go to the heart of what the issues are on appeal and what I tried to discuss above. I think where the NFL really nails her is where she said there is no "temporal gloss" on the words "labor dispute" in Norris Laguardia. What she means by this is that a labor dispute can be ended immediately, by decertification, and it's over at that instant. The NFL says that's silly -- the statute itself creats a "temporal gloss," by using the word "growing out of" a labor dispute. Obviously, something that "grow out of" a labor dispute comes after the labor dispute.

Judge Nelson, unfortunatley, isn't a rocket scientist. She tends to use big words without fully understanding them. Not saying she'll be overruled, but the NFL tags her really good.

Standard

A district court considering a stay motion will seldom, if ever, believe that it is likely that the movant will prevail on appeal; the court ordinarily assumes that the appellate court will agree with its own ruling. But that does not mean that stays are or should be rarely granted. Instead, “district courts properly stay their own orders when they have ruled on an admittedly difficult legal question and when the equities of the case suggest that the
status quo should be maintained.” Protect Our Water v. Flowers, 377 F. Supp. 2d 882, 884 (E.D. Cal. 2004). Accord, e.g., Exxon Corp. v. Esso Worker’s Union, 963 F. Supp. 58, 60 (D. Mass. 1997); Jock v. Sterling, 738 F. Supp. 2d 445, 447 (S.D.N.Y. 2010). In such a case, the “likelihood of success” factor is satisfied “when the ‘question presented ... is not wholly without doubt.’” Lakehead Pipe Line Co. v. Investment Advisors, Inc., 900 F. Supp. 234, 235 (D. Minn. 1995) (quoting In re Worker’s Compensation Refund, 851 F. Supp. 1399, 1401 (D. Minn. 1994)) (alteration in original).

Merits Discussion

This case raises several “substantial and novel legal questions” regarding both this Court’s jurisdiction and the contours of the nonstatutory labor exemption. Accordingly, the NFL need show only that the questions presented by its appeal are “not wholly without doubt.” In re Worker’s Compensation Refund, 851 F. Supp. at 1401. The NFL easily meets this threshold.

First, it is “not wholly without doubt” that, because of the Norris-LaGuardia Act, the Court lacked jurisdiction to issue the Order. No court had ever before entered an injunction barring a lockout (except for one court whose injunction was dissolved on appeal.) Consistent with the Act’s plain language, a number of other courts have held that the Act bars antitrust injunctions against lockouts, and that its protections are not tied to the existence of a union. (See Opp. 9-16.). The Court concluded that it was “not convinced” that the Norris-LaGuardia Act applies here because of the NFLPA’s disclaimer. (Order 61.) It is “not wholly without doubt” that the Eighth Circuit will agree. The Court determined that there is no “temporal gloss” on the Act’s definition of a “labor dispute,” (Order 58), but the Act expressly applies not just to cases involving labor disputes, but to cases “growing out of” them, 29 U.S.C. § 104, providing an express temporal connection.

The Court also concluded that it was “not convinced that the Norris-LaGuardia Act applies, absent the present existence of a union, so as to prohibit or condition injunctions.” (Order 61.) But the Supreme Court has
already held that the Act applies to a dispute between employees and employers in which no union at all was involved. See New Negro Alliance v. Sanitary Grocery Co., 303 U.S. 552, 561 (1938). And the plain language of the Act defines a labor dispute as one that includes a controversy over terms or conditions of employment that “involves persons who are engaged in the same industry, trade, craft or occupation” and is “between one or more employers … and one or more employees.” 29 U.S.C. § 113(a). In addition, the fact that the Act expressly defines persons “participating or interested in a labor dispute” to include both employers and employees, id. § 113(b), indicates that the Court’s skepticism about whether Section 4 of the Act can apply to lockouts may be misplaced.
 
Actually it would be the reward of treble damages that would bankrupt the league, so the players would get theirs. Other than that i loved the rant.


I hope they get a fair deal for all, you hope the players get screwed, so be it.

Again, you open your mouth and show you don't know wtf you are talking about and you blatantly lie.

First of all, the players would never see a dime of the treble damages. Why? Because of how the structures of the corporations are set up. The liability would be limited to the TEAM. Not the stadiums. Not anything else. And they'd be tied up in court with appeal after appeal. They'd never see a dime.

You don't give a rat's ass about the owners. You've proven that time and again.

I wanted a fair deal for both sides. The PLAYERS don't want a fair deal. They want a deal that just continues to give to them. If they wanted a "fair deal" they'd have agreed to another extension, recognized that the owners offer prior to their decertification was a starting point, and continued to work from there. Clearly that concept is something you aren't capable of understanding.

I could care less if the players get a "fair deal" now because it's become clear that they don't care about the game. They don't care about the fans. They only care about themselves and getting what they feel they are entitled to. Not what they have earned.
 
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