Judge Nelson rules in favor of the players

[Rob0729]

It pretty much follows party political lines even on this forum. If you are a liberal, the players needed to win. A conservative the other way. Liberal Judge=Liberal win! I would have made book on that.
Now that she ruled she has absolutely no clue on to what to do....It's hilarious. Chaos was predicted and Chaos we have. I wonder if she bought her judge position at Sears. Maybe she can go back and fix her stupidity under the warranty.
This is too much fun girly!
This is a riot.
O.K. Now the owners need to go nuclear. The bimbo Judge wants rules, give them to her.
1_The players now pay their own insurance plus that of their families.
2_The players pay their own transportation and lodging
3_FA cannot be signed and brought in until after the Team has a season BYE.
4_The CAP reverts to 25% less than 2010.
5_The players must be checked for Drugs at least once per week
6_There will be no Draft (I have been adamant that it would be stupid to Trade choices into 2012. Not this clinches it)
7_College players must have prove of attending and the only accepted document is a diploma.

Some tid-bits as an example. No union to fight any above.
DW Toys

Ummm... eventhough I am not I would be considered on the owner's side and I am not a conservative.

I don't think either side needs to win. I think both sides need to stop acting like idiots and come to the table to work out a deal that is beneficial to both sides. I think both sides are unreasonable.

My politics have nothing to do with this because the players' union was not like a blue collar union. It was the rich vs. the richer. There is no one fighting for the guy working for a minimum wage trying to get by. A large number of the players are Republicans and probably anti-union except when it serves them.

 

[lamafist]

Personally, I don't agree with that. They should have extended for another 24-72 hours tried to counter the owner's offer to see if the owners were really willing to move or just doing it for PR. By starting the whole litigation process, it has guaranteed that a deal won't even be seriously discussed until both sides exhaust their appeals.

After spending 17 days in mediation with the owners, I fail to see how another 2-3 would have made a huge difference, especially considering that the NFL's offer made no reference to the one concern - financial transparency- that the NFLPA had clearly stated they needed to see movement on if they were going to agree to another postponement.

 

[Rob0729]

After spending 17 days in mediation with the owners, I fail to see how another 2-3 would have made a huge difference, especially considering that the NFL's offer made no reference to the one concern - financial transparency- that the NFLPA had clearly stated they needed to see movement on if they were going to agree to another postponement.

Because the owners made an offer a few hours before the NFLPA decertified that had quite a few concessions. It represented some significant movement. The NFLPA made the misstep of not countering it which hurt them in the court of public opinion. They could have turned the tables on the owners and made a counter offer themselves and not allow the owners to paint them as greedy and wanting to litigate over negoatiate. Or on the positive side, it could have been a legitimate concession that could have sparked some real movement towards a deal.

 

[Deus Irae]

Personally, I don't agree with that. They should have extended for another 24-72 hours tried to counter the owner's offer to see if the owners were really willing to move or just doing it for PR. By starting the whole litigation process, it has guaranteed that a deal won't even be seriously discussed until both sides exhaust their appeals.

It would have been stupid of the union to do that. The owners were clearly not interested in coming to terms, and the players want this resolved as quickly as possible. Delay is the friend of the owners.

 

[Rob0729]

It would have been stupid of the union to do that. The owners were clearly not interested in coming to terms, and the players want this resolved as quickly as possible. Delay is the friend of the owners.

So if they decertified Monday instead of Friday, the owners would have won the lockout battle in court? Seriously, it would have done nothing to hurt them to see if the owners were legit with their counter proposal. In fact, it could have only helped their cause in the court of public opinion. I wasn't talking about dragging it out for weeks, I was talking take the weekend and see if the owners were for real.

 

[Deus Irae]

So if they decertified Monday instead of Friday, the owners would have won the lockout battle in court?

No, and that's not what I posted. The side that's got hundreds of individuals that aren't getting paid is naturally going to have more urgency than the side that's got about 30 billionaires with TV contracts in their pockets. They'd already given 2 extensions. A third would have been stupid.

Seriously, it would have done nothing to hurt them to see if the owners were legit with their counter proposal. In fact, it could have only helped their cause in the court of public opinion. I wasn't talking about dragging it out for weeks, I was talking take the weekend and see if the owners were for real.

The court of public opinion would then have been faced with the same thing on the Monday. It was already obvious that the owners weren't for real. You don't wait until 1pm of the final day to give your offer, and then show up at 3:50 pm for a 3:30 pm meeting when you know that the player reps are up against a 4:00 pm deadline, if you're for real.

 

[lamafist]

Because the owners made an offer a few hours before the NFLPA decertified that had quite a few concessions. It represented some significant movement. The NFLPA made the misstep of not countering it which hurt them in the court of public opinion. They could have turned the tables on the owners and made a counter offer themselves and not allow the owners to paint them as greedy and wanting to litigate over negoatiate. Or on the positive side, it could have been a legitimate concession that could have sparked some real movement towards a deal.

The owners' waiting until the 11th hour to make their first counter offer tells you right there that the mediation isn't going anywhere. As for the content of the owners' proposal, it made a number of highly decorative concessions on player concerns many of which involved the player's workplace safety, which the NFL would be legally obligated to address in any case. Meanwhile, in hard financial terms, the NFL's counter proposal was tangibly worse than the offer they came to the table with, assuming that the NFL's revenues would exceed estimates, as it has every year in recent memory. And, as I said, it made no mention of the issue that the NFLPA had stated it needed to see addressed.

The NFL's counter-proposal was, in both timing and content, an implicit thumbed nose to the players' concerns. It was clearly designed to play to public opinion, and not the NFLPA. Yes, not postponing the CBA expiration to make a fruitless counter offer may have hurt the players in the court of public opinion, but ultimately, that's not the court that this case will be decided in. And so far, the players seem to have a much stronger case in that one.

 

[AzPatsFan]

It pretty much follows party political lines even on this forum. If you are a liberal, the players needed to win. A conservative the other way. Liberal Judge=Liberal win! I would have made book on that.
Now that she ruled she has absolutely no clue on to what to do....It's hilarious. Chaos was predicted and Chaos we have. I wonder if she bought her judge position at Sears. Maybe she can go back and fix her stupidity under the warranty.
This is too much fun girly!
This is a riot.
O.K. Now the owners need to go nuclear. The bimbo Judge wants rules, give them to her.
1_The players now pay their own insurance plus that of their families.
2_The players pay their own transportation and lodging
3_FA cannot be signed and brought in until after the Team has a season BYE.
4_The CAP reverts to 25% less than 2010.
5_The players must be checked for Drugs at least once per week
6_There will be no Draft (I have been adamant that it would be stupid to Trade choices into 2012. Not this clinches it)
7_College players must have prove of attending and the only accepted document is a diploma.

Some tid-bits as an example. No union to fight any above.
DW Toys

No libtard judge shops at Sears. C'est declasse' !! She got it by mailing in her Granola boxtops.

The Lawyers won. The Players "won" [but lost]. Everyone forgets that this negotiation was a negotiation about Givebacks, much like the UAW had to do when GM and Chrysler were Bankrupt.

The Union fools didn't give Ford the same break, and though riding high now with good product, Ford will soon be back in the soup, as the highest cost manufacturer...

When givebacks are the issue, you find ways to increase revenue, or take a big cut in pay.

The players did not accept a revenue increase proposal, with a lengthened season, so payroll cuts will have to come, as the only alternative. They won't want that, so the prospects of a season with the present Players grows extremely dim. The more "compensation" forced onto the Owners, the more there will be no season.

I predict a very long Player absence with an unwillingness to taking a paycut, so welcome to squads of scrubs playing, instead.

Now it proceeds like the last football labor strike coming ...

 

[Deus Irae]

No libtard judge shops at Sears. C'est declasse' !! She got it by mailing in her Granola boxtops.

The Lawyers won. The Players "won" [but lost]. Everyone forgets that this negotiation was a negotiation about Givebacks, much like the UAW had to do when GM and Chrysler were Bankrupt.

The Union fools didn't give Ford the same break, and though riding high now with good product, Ford will soon be back in the soup, as the highest cost manufacturer...

When givebacks are the issue, you find ways to increase revenue, or take a big cut in pay.

The players did not accept a revenue increase proposal, with a lengthened season, so payroll cuts will have to come, as the only alternative. They won't want that, so the prospects of a season with the present Players grows extremely dim. The more "compensation" forced onto the Owners, the more there will be no season.

I predict a very long Player absence with an unwillingness to taking a paycut, so welcome to squads of scrubs playing, instead.

Now it proceeds like the last football labor strike coming ...

This would make sense if revenue was static under the old system. Since it wasn't, your point fails.

 

[Triumph]

It would have been stupid of the union to do that. The owners were clearly not interested in coming to terms, and the players want this resolved as quickly as possible. Delay is the friend of the owners.

Minnesota has been the friend to the players.

They threatened desertification and court all along. The players werent really interested in making a deal either when they can have their way in court.

 

[Deus Irae]

Minnesota has been the friend to the players.

They threatened desertification and court all along. The players werent really interested in making a deal either when they can have their way in court.

Again, the facts are against your position.

It was the owners opting out. It was the owners refusing to share sufficient financial information when asked as far back as 2 weeks after Smith took over. It was the owners skipping meetings, leaving meetings and not returning, and showing up late when there was a deadline involved.

The players offered to play under the old agreement. The owners refused.

 

[mb6592]

sexist and/or homophobic remarks about them starts to get close to the line of Hate speech

The dreaded hate speech threat. Arghh, can't we get away from this crap on a football website?

 

[patriot lifer]

Again, the facts are against your position.

It was the owners opting out. It was the owners refusing to share sufficient financial information when asked as far back as 2 weeks after Smith took over. It was the owners skipping meetings, leaving meetings and not returning, and showing up late when there was a deadline involved.

The players offered to play under the old agreement. The owners refused.

and what's more, to reiterate a prior point (ad nauseum), the two sides are so far apart that they're at an impasse and going through the painful process of the judicial system is as close to third-party arbitration as we'll see. The sooner they start this process, the sooner they finish. The owners would rather waste more time "negotiating" because the players that didn't save their money will start complaining and the "union" will lose leverage. Hence, the owners want to stall.

 

[Ring 6]

Again, the facts are against your position.

It was the owners opting out. It was the owners refusing to share sufficient financial information when asked as far back as 2 weeks after Smith took over. It was the owners skipping meetings, leaving meetings and not returning, and showing up late when there was a deadline involved.

The players offered to play under the old agreement. The owners refused.

Is it your position that the owners acted against their best interest by opting out?
Are you saying your advice to the owners would be to turn over 10 years of each teams financials?
Do you feel that if you were an owner you would be supporting playing under the old agreement?

 

[mb6592]

It pretty much follows party political lines even on this forum. If you are a liberal, the players needed to win. A conservative the other way. Liberal Judge=Liberal win! I would have made book on that.
Now that she ruled she has absolutely no clue on to what to do....It's hilarious. Chaos was predicted and Chaos we have. I wonder if she bought her judge position at Sears. Maybe she can go back and fix her stupidity under the warranty.
This is too much fun girly!
This is a riot.
O.K. Now the owners need to go nuclear. The bimbo Judge wants rules, give them to her.
1_The players now pay their own insurance plus that of their families.
2_The players pay their own transportation and lodging
3_FA cannot be signed and brought in until after the Team has a season BYE.
4_The CAP reverts to 25% less than 2010.
5_The players must be checked for Drugs at least once per week
6_There will be no Draft (I have been adamant that it would be stupid to Trade choices into 2012. Not this clinches it)
7_College players must have prove of attending and the only accepted document is a diploma.

Some tid-bits as an example. No union to fight any above.
DW Toys

I got a tickle running up my leg after reading your post.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Absent a CBA, a player should be able to quit a team to which he's under contract and play for another team. He will be obligated to make some compensation for breaking a contract, but this would be an issue between the player and the team, and not involve compensation from one team to another. If teams collaterally refrain from dealing with players who are under contract with another team, that would be collusion. Any sort of waiver system would be an antitrust violation, as well as any system in which a player's ability to ply his trade is impeded by having suffered a workplace injury in the beginning of the season.

In other words, absent a CBA, as far as their player-hiring practices are concerned, they eventually will need to operate as 32 competing businesses hiring independently in the workplace.

I don't think anybody would disagree with you that this would be an unsustainable state of affairs for the NFL. But unless they settle the Brady suit and can convince the players to reconvene a union, this is the only legal way for them to operate. Fortunately, this eventuality should give both players and owners alike a strong incentive to settle the lawsuit.

You might think that they would have to operate as 32 distinct businesses, but there is one circumstance where that is not necessarily true.

If you worked for a big company with many divisions and facilities, you can seek to transfer to another facility, but the company does not have to move you.

You are usually hired by a specific facility to do a specific job for the specific business entity; and they may try accommodate you, but you do not have the right to demand to move to another one of the company's business entities.

 

[ausbacker]

This is the single most boring thread I've ever read on PatsFans.

<Insert I'm a lawyer I rule comment>
<Insert you're a **** lawyer shut up>
<Insert blah blah blah judge judge judge>

Just get it done FFS.

 

[JMarr]

This is the single most boring thread I've ever read on PatsFans.

<Insert I'm a lawyer I rule comment>
<Insert you're a **** lawyer shut up>
<Insert blah blah blah judge judge judge>

Just get it done FFS.

I don't know, I find the misogynistic/homophobic/blind-political-hating rants kind of entertaining.

 

[Robdude]

This is the single most boring thread I've ever read on PatsFans.

<Insert I'm a lawyer I rule comment>
<Insert you're a **** lawyer shut up>
<Insert blah blah blah judge judge judge>

Just get it done FFS.

Isn't that funny because i was just thinking that this is one of the more interesting threads. It is the one thread that has me checking Patsfans multiple times a day when we know nothing is really going on football wise.

 

[TruthSeeker]

After spending 17 days in mediation with the owners, I fail to see how another 2-3 would have made a huge difference, especially considering that the NFL's offer made no reference to the one concern - financial transparency- that the NFLPA had clearly stated they needed to see movement on if they were going to agree to another postponement.

I agree with you that the players absolutely demanded something that everyone knew the owners would not willingly give. And when the owners didn't give it, then the players did what they absolutely knew they were going to do when they first made the demand. Negotiations effectively ended when the players said "show us your books or negotiations will end".

Now whether or not that was a good strategy is still to be seen. The players have won round 1 and round 2. However, rounds 3 and 4 are more meaningful and still to be played out.