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Jets' chances to run the table take huge hit

Discussion in 'NFL Football Forum' started by Deus Irae, Dec 18, 2009.

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  1. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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  2. PatsFanSince74

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    i agree with the sentiment of the thread. i think the jets would be better with Clemens at QB after he gets a couple of games and a few weeks of practice as starter under his belt.

    but the jets believe that the sanchize is the QB of their future and that any growing pains he goes through this year will be to their longer term advantage.

    from what i've seen of him, my own layman's view is that he will be at best a solid/good NFL QB and that they will need to rely on a punishing running game and great D if they're going to have any hopes of going long in the postseason in the sanchez era.
  3. SVN

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    more than sanchez i think its their OC who wants to showcase sanchez throw the ball for some reason even when they can run the ball effectively. our own oc has issues but the jets OC isnt any smart either.maybe its directions from the owner to showcase the franchise to sell PSL's.
  4. Sicilian

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    It may be better for this year to let Clemens take the reins, but once they decided to start the year with Sanchez it made it very difficult to pull him. Young QBs can have fragile psyches and that might set him back a bit and make him tighten up when he plays.

    If they'd started the year with Clemens, then it's easier to go to the rookie later if the season falls apart. Less pressure, more time to learn.
  5. Mack Herron

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    The Jets now rely on defense and Jones running.
  6. Rob0729

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    With the potential of Matt Ryan and Michael Turner out this weekend, I don't know if Atlanta will have the offense to capitalize on all of Sanchez's picks this weekend.
  7. TheComeback

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    In retrospect, it seems like starting Sanchez was a poor decision. They may have done more to hurt his confidence than develop it. Obviously with a rookie QB the jury is still out, but I think they're better off with Clemens as the starter. Sucks for them because Clemens isn't going to score a lot of points, either.
  8. Deus Irae

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    I'm with you, in that I don't think that Clemens is the answer. I just think that it's not likely Sanchez can go 3 games without giving at least one of them away at this point in his career..
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2009
  9. PATRIOTSFANINPA

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    The Jets should win this week because next week they don't have a chance in hell.
  10. PatsChamp88

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    This weeks game isn't a gimme even if Sanchize wasn't playing because Mat Ryan and Michael Turner practiced on a limited baises yesterday which was surprising to say the least..
  11. PATSYLICIOUS

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    I don't see how the experience would do anything to hurt Sanchez. Peyton Manning has said that being able to start his rookie year (with a 3-13 record, 71.2 rating) was a big help.
  12. Deus Irae

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    David Carr certainly wasn't helped by it.
  13. PatsChamp88

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    It also didn't help he didn't have an offensive line..:D
  14. PATSYLICIOUS

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    Haha fair enough Deus... but my point is if it doesn't help, I don't see how it could hurt. If someone's psyche is fragile enough that one bad season will ruin his career, he's not cut out to be a QB in this league in the first place.
  15. BradyFTW!

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    They came within a field goal of New Orleans last week, so it's not like they have no shot against the Jets. Frankly, I expect Atlanta to win.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2009
  16. BradyFTW!

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    There are a lot more David Carrs, Tim Couches, Alex Smiths, Akili Smiths, Ryan Leafs, Joey Harringtons, etc. etc. than there are Peyton Mannings and Ben Roethlisbergers. The numbers definitely support the idea that starting too early can damage your rookie QBs, *especially* when they only have one year of college starting experience under their belts. Every single one of those guys had the physical talent to be an NFL all-pro, that's why they were drafted so high. Of course a lot of them would have busted no matter what, but the disparity is very striking nonetheless.

    If you want to start a debate about whether it's better to start QBs right away vs. sit them at first, acknowledging the merits and downsides of each position, then there's a lot of directions that that could go in (FWIW, I'm firmly in favor of more slowly acclimating QBs to the pro game). But to suggest that there is no potential downside at all to the 'start him right away' method is simply wrong.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2009
  17. PATSYLICIOUS

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    Maybe those guys just weren't cut out for the NFL? There's no proof any of them would have suddenly been great QB's had they sat and learned for the first year. Most rookies should come with reduced expectations (if the Jets and their fans were banking on Sanchez having a great first season and a deep playoff run they need to lower their expectations bottom line). Unless you're Lebron James, Tim Duncan, Sydney Crosby, etc it should be understood that a poor rookie season isn't the end of the world. Believe me I'd love to join in the Jet bashing and criticize them for starting Sanchez too early also but I just don't see how getting real time NFL experience is a bad thing for any young player.
  18. IcyPatriot

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    I hope the flash cards are big enough for him to see them.
  19. BradyFTW!

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    I said the same thing in my post, so I'm not sure what new ground you're trying to break here...

    Post-by-post, you're moving the goalposts by about a mile. you previously said that you didn't see how starting Sanchez as a rookie could hurt him in the long term. AKA there's no conceivable downside. AKA you look at the laundry list of failed first-round QBs, all of which were blessed with enormous talent, and you conclude that there's no way that any of that could have been the product of starting too early?

    When you look at the fact that the vast majority of all-pro QBs *didn't* start as rookies, and a disproportionate number of flameouts did, both must be a coincidence? That's ridiculous

    Agree with the first part, not so much with the second. For quarterbacks, having a rookie season as bad as what Sanchez has had does not bode well at all. Very, very few QBs recover from this bad of a start and go on to become all-pro caliber players. His rookie year has been Cade McNown-esque; the only reason people are still so gung-ho about him is that he's playing in NY. They want him to be good, and they'll ignore the fact that he's shown nothing as a rookie as long as humanly possible.

    Someone on this board did a detailed breakdown that I'll have to try to dig up and re-post with proper attribution, because it gave an extraordinarily compelling case. And even then, we're talking about the relative weighting of the upsides versus downsides of to start or not to start.

    What you're arguing is something totally different, which is that there is no conceivable downside to starting a player before he's ready. That's an absurd argument, and I'd be legitimately surprised if you could find a single NFL coach who agrees with you. Many might say that on the whole it's better to do it than not do it, but I highly doubt that any will say that there is no risk whatsoever.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2009
  20. PATSYLICIOUS

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    Why would someone make up a big compelling case about this lol. It's purely psychological within the player. What else, would every defense in the league figure the QB out in 1 season and that's it? Like I said, if someone's psyche is fragile enough that one bad season kills his confidence completely rather than inspiring him to work on his weaknesses, he's probably not NFL QB material. I'm not going to argue with NFL coaches saying they'd rather sit the QB and make him learn, all I'm saying is if they do make the 'mistake' of starting him too early, whatever psychological downside there is shouldn't outweigh the positives of building the experience and kill his career like people are suggesting it will to Sanchez.
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