Is Randall Cobb this draft's Dexter McCluster or Percy Harvin?

[furley]

That is to say, in terms of his versatility as a dual threat (receiving/special teams) or even a triple threat (receiving/rushing/special teams).

I know there was a rumor back in 2009 that Belichick liked Harvin as a choice in the first round.

33. New England Patriots: Randall Cobb, WR/KR, Kentucky

Upgrading the pass rush and the offensive line are two of the three things the Patriots need to accomplish this offseason. The third is finding a receiver who can stretch the field. Randall Cobb, who reportedly is soaring up draft boards, could be that guy.

New England has met with more than a dozen receivers in the past month or so, meaning Bill Belichick is fully interested in upgrading the position. One of the wideouts he met with, by the way, was Cobb.

WalterFootball.com: 2011 NFL Mock Draft: Round 2

 

[Snake Eyes]

He's going to be a playmaker, he is not only a phenomenal athlete but a great football player at multiple positions. He will become Troy Brown 2.0 for some lucky team, and it likely won't be us.

 

[VJCPatriot]

He looks more like a wildcat player slash slot receiver slash returner.
Offers versatility yes, but is he an improvement on Welker in the slot?

 

[supafly]

That is to say, in terms of his versatility as a dual threat (receiving/special teams) or even a triple threat (receiving/rushing/special teams).

I know there was a rumor back in 2009 that Belichick liked Harvin as a choice in the first round.





WalterFootball.com: 2011 NFL Mock Draft: Round 2

He very well could be. Having watched him, he is certainly versatile. Not sure if he could line up wide though, as another poster claimed that he is mainly a slot guy.

Interesting to hear that BB has met with 12 WR's.

 

[furley]

So, why has Cobb supposedly passed wide receiver prospects Torrey Smith, Leonard Hankerson and Titus Young if he sounds more like a utility guy?

Is the play-maker label for a draft prospect overrated?

 

[Off The Grid]

He very well could be. Having watched him, he is certainly versatile. Not sure if he could line up wide though, as another poster claimed that he is mainly a slot guy.

And indeed, he is.

I absolutely love Randall Cobb, but as the #$%&* still insist on constraining us to 53 man rosters ~ as far as I know ~ I can't imagine us getting him.

Versatile, yes: He could play some Flanker, some Tail Back, return kicks, and even take a few snaps.

But an early 2nd Rounder needs to be a starter.

And his main position is clearly as a Slot Receiver.

 

[JoeShmoe]

We need an X reciever to catch balls outside the numbers, preferably tall and physical

I can see why BB thinks we need this if you take the view that how the Jets DB's just shut our small WR's down

I like Torrey Smith or Hankerson better

 

[supafly]

Definitely agree on needing an outside guy, and since Cobb doesn't seem to be that guy, we need someone to stretch the field instead.

 

[supafly]

So, why has Cobb supposedly passed wide receiver prospects Torrey Smith, Leonard Hankerson and Titus Young if he sounds more like a utility guy?

Is the play-maker label for a draft prospect overrated?

I think he's climbing up the boards due to his versatility and skill set, but it will come down to the individual team needs (in my opinion).

 

[Off The Grid]

Definitely agree on needing an outside guy, and since Cobb doesn't seem to be that guy, we need someone to stretch the field instead.

I've been chewing that one over for a long time. Mind you, I see no value in the extreme version of that ~ a Zoomer who can't or won't block. But I could imagine our line up benefiting from the accession of a guy who is willing and able to block on each and every play...and who can also get on his horse, stretch the D, and keep The Enemy honest.

The notoriously short attention of most fans compels them to ignore both Taylor Price and Brandon Tate ~ who are both, effectively, entering their second years ~ despite the overwhelming historical evidence that shows that most quality Wide Receivers ~ indeed, most players ~ take an enormous step forward in their second year.

Brandon Tate ~ 6.0/210/4.52​

Brandon Tate, in my opinion, has good Long Speed, superior Quickness, and nice Instincts. I think he's got potential at Flanker, and is big enough and talented enough to take a shot at Split End, as well.

Taylor Price ~ 6.0/210/4.40​

There is no question that Taylor Price has all the Speed he needs to play Flanker, and yet is also big enough ~ though he and Tate could both stand to be a bit taller ~ to take some reps at Split End, as well. He's very fast off the line, and simply blazes down field. Very good Router Running Instincts, as well.

***​

These guys ~ and Julian Edelman in the Slot, heading into the fabled 3rd Year ~ are why I'm not inclined to spend Draft Capital on Wide Receiver. I'd be very surprised if at least one ~ and quite possibly both ~ of Price and Tate don't take a big step forward, this year.

What are your thoughts on this, Brother Fly?

And needless to say: I'd love to hear from anyone else who has Wisdom to impart.

 

[Off The Grid]

Definitely agree on needing an outside guy, and since Cobb doesn't seem to be that guy, we need someone to stretch the field instead.

I've been chewing that one over for a long time. Mind you, I see no value in the extreme version of that ~ a Zoomer who can't or won't block. But I could imagine our line up benefiting from the accession of a guy who is willing and able to block on each and every play...and who can also get on his horse, stretch the D, and keep The Enemy honest.

The notoriously short attention of most fans compels them to ignore both Taylor Price and Brandon Tate ~ who are both, effectively, entering their second years ~ despite the overwhelming historical evidence that shows that most quality Wide Receivers ~ indeed, most players ~ take an enormous step forward in their second year.

Brandon Tate ~ 6.0/210/4.52​

Brandon Tate, in my opinion, has good Long Speed, superior Quickness, and nice Instincts. I think he's got potential at Flanker, and is big enough and talented enough to take a shot at Split End, as well.

Taylor Price ~ 6.0/210/4.40​

There is no question that Taylor Price has all the Speed he needs to play Flanker, and yet is also big enough ~ though he and Tate could both stand to be a bit taller ~ to take some reps at Split End, as well. He's very fast off the line, and simply blazes down field. Very good Router Running Instincts, as well.

***​

These guys ~ and Julian Edelman in the Slot, heading into the fabled 3rd Year ~ are why I'm not inclined to spend Draft Capital on Wide Receiver. I'd be very surprised if at least one ~ and quite possibly both ~ of Price and Tate don't take a big step forward, this year.

What are your thoughts on this, Brother Fly?

And needless to say: I'd love to hear from anyone else who has Wisdom to impart.

o

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Branch is getting older, and Welker has had a LOT of touches over the past several years. I think there's no question that we miss the matchup problems a talent like Moss presented. Do we need him in our base offense? No. But some defenses are able to cheat up on us and run overload blitzes and flood zones (i.e., the Ryan brothers) and that flusters us without the threat of blowing the top off their defense.

I fully expect Price to mature into a starter. He has too many good traits not to make it eventually. Tate is a rotational guy who provides good special teams value, and I think he's an ideal 4th receiver. Edelman will rule the slot, just like Welker, but has more explosiveness once he fully integrates into the offense.

In this draft, I only see a few talents who can round out our receiving corps. I'm not counting Green or Jones, because they're too cost-intensive of investments at this juncture. Aside from the big two, I like Hankerson the best as a savvy route runner with great size and physicality (6'2 #210) and deceptive speed. He reminds me a bit of Hakeem Nicks, and should follow well in the tradition of Miami receivers such as Reggie Wayne and Andre Johnson. Let's not forget he had perhaps the best season of any of them.

Denarius Moore is another guy I like. His game is very similar to Santonio Holmes. He's a nifty route runner with reliable hands, excellent speed, and a nack for the big play. Watch highlights of Moore and Holmes back to back, and you'll swear they're the same palyer. Good value pick.

Greg Little worries me a little with the rumored attitude and off field concerns, but no one questions his work ethic. He's extremely explosive despite only average top end speed (4.5 range), and is the best blocking WR in the draft as far as I'm concerned. He's nearly 6'3 and weighs in at a powerful 231, with a 40+ inch vertical and nearly 11' in the broad jump. Is not a burner, but still creates serious matchup problems outside. Should go later than expected due to the suspensions.

Honestly, that's about it. I used to like Torrey Smith, but that's when he was projected as a 3rd round pick. I'd be interested in the late second onward, but earlier than that I'd rather see us invest in either side of the line.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Branch is getting older, and Welker has had a LOT of touches over the past several years. I think there's no question that we miss the matchup problems a talent like Moss presented. Do we need him in our base offense? No. But some defenses are able to cheat up on us and run overload blitzes and flood zones (i.e., the Ryan brothers) and that flusters us without the threat of blowing the top off their defense.

I fully expect Price to mature into a starter. He has too many good traits not to make it eventually. Tate is a rotational guy who provides good special teams value, and I think he's an ideal 4th receiver. Edelman will rule the slot, just like Welker, but has more explosiveness once he fully integrates into the offense.

In this draft, I only see a few talents who can round out our receiving corps. I'm not counting Green or Jones, because they're too cost-intensive of investments at this juncture. Aside from the big two, I like Hankerson the best as a savvy route runner with great size and physicality (6'2 #210) and deceptive speed. He reminds me a bit of Hakeem Nicks, and should follow well in the tradition of Miami receivers such as Reggie Wayne and Andre Johnson. Let's not forget he had perhaps the best season of any of them.

Denarius Moore is another guy I like. His game is very similar to Santonio Holmes. He's a nifty route runner with reliable hands, excellent speed, and a nack for the big play. Watch highlights of Moore and Holmes back to back, and you'll swear they're the same palyer. Good value pick.

Greg Little worries me a little with the rumored attitude and off field concerns, but no one questions his work ethic. He's extremely explosive despite only average top end speed (4.5 range), and is the best blocking WR in the draft as far as I'm concerned. He's nearly 6'3 and weighs in at a powerful 231, with a 40+ inch vertical and nearly 11' in the broad jump. Is not a burner, but still creates serious matchup problems outside. Should go later than expected due to the suspensions.

Honestly, that's about it. I used to like Torrey Smith, but that's when he was projected as a 3rd round pick. I'd be interested in the late second onward, but earlier than that I'd rather see us invest in either side of the line.

What do you think about Mike Sims-Walker? It seems he physically has the tools and the issues with him could be mitigated by 1) not being in an awful Jacksonville offense, and 2) giving him a Moss-type “screw up once and you’re gone without getting paid” contract. In terms of ability he seems like a better risk than rookies.

 

[supafly]

I've been chewing that one over for a long time. Mind you, I see no value in the extreme version of that ~ a Zoomer who can't or won't block. But I could imagine our line up benefiting from the accession of a guy who is willing and able to block on each and every play...and who can also get on his horse, stretch the D, and keep The Enemy honest.

The notoriously short attention of most fans compels them to ignore both Taylor Price and Brandon Tate ~ who are both, effectively, entering their second years ~ despite the overwhelming historical evidence that shows that most quality Wide Receivers ~ indeed, most players ~ take an enormous step forward in their second year.

Brandon Tate ~ 6.0/210/4.52​

Brandon Tate, in my opinion, has good Long Speed, superior Quickness, and nice Instincts. I think he's got potential at Flanker, and is big enough and talented enough to take a shot at Split End, as well.

Taylor Price ~ 6.0/210/4.40​

There is no question that Taylor Price has all the Speed he needs to play Flanker, and yet is also big enough ~ though he and Tate could both stand to be a bit taller ~ to take some reps at Split End, as well. He's very fast off the line, and simply blazes down field. Very good Router Running Instincts, as well.

***​

These guys ~ and Julian Edelman in the Slot, heading into the fabled 3rd Year ~ are why I'm not inclined to spend Draft Capital on Wide Receiver. I'd be very surprised if at least one ~ and quite possibly both ~ of Price and Tate don't take a big step forward, this year.

What are your thoughts on this, Brother Fly?

And needless to say: I'd love to hear from anyone else who has Wisdom to impart.

o

Many good points regarding the position, OTG.

I myself, am not as high on Tate as some others, but you make a great point that he may take good steps forward this year. I am very interested in seeing Price compete for some good game reps.

I did not view WR as a huge need either, like many, after the NYJ loss am more inclined to feeling that we have more of an outside need than I thought--at least against that type of scheme and players involved (NYJ).

I think BB may be viewing towards the future with the possible departure after this year/minor to moderate injury concerns of Branch etc. He may also know something we do not, for ex: the possibility of being far apart in early talks of a Welker extrension, (pure speculation of course), or just not being overly impressed with Tate, his work ethic, or some other issue (again, speculating on if BB knows something we're not privy to).

Regardless, I am surprised to find out that he has looked at a lot of WR's in this draft, although I expect that to be mid to later rounds of course. The one thing I have learned is that with BB and this team--expect the unexpected. I think that is one of the reasons why I am not buying in to the whole 'first 3 picks on defense' theory (although I would be all for it).

Belichick may surprise us and take another WR in the top 2 rounds, who knows? I am not thinking that it is necessarily 'likely,' but I certainly see it as an option. It would not surprise me in the least, although not much does anymore. I will admit, that I did not see the Seymour trade coming, and thought that we'd at least keep him for another year (or possibly 2 via tag). I did however, take part in the famous 'CB thread on draft day' last year, with Belichick Fan, and did speak of several options at CB, including McCourtey's name--although it was along with 2 others. I was not surprised there, and was in the minority of course, so it admittedly will take a lot to get me. (pats himself on back in fantastical cyber space world)

Bottom line? Expect a high pick TE That would certainly get me

 

[furley]

The notoriously short attention of most fans compels them to ignore both Taylor Price and Brandon Tate ~ who are both, effectively, entering their second years ~ despite the overwhelming historical evidence that shows that most quality Wide Receivers ~ indeed, most players ~ take an enormous step forward in their second year.

I'm uncertain of which fans you're referring to but I'm well aware of New England's current roster. It doesn't hurt a team to retool their depth at a position through the draft. And you can't expect a second or third-year wide receiver on New England to suddenly emerge as a starter or receive more playing time when incumbent starters Wes Welker and Deion Branch are still on the roster and still productive players. Not to mention, I recall wide receivers such as Chad Jackson (second round, 2006) and Bethel Johnson (second round, 2003) who failed to make the proverbial jump in their second or third season as a professional. Ditto for PK Sam (fifth round, 2004) and Matthew Slater (fifth round, 2008). Under Belichick, only Branch (second round, 2002) and David Givens (seventh round, 2002) hit their stride in their third season.

Conversely, it remains to be seen whether or not 2009 draft picks Brandon Tate and Julian Edelman will hit their stride in 2011. However, like Tate, Taylor Price has only played in one or two games as rookie. Therefore, I expect more will be expected from Edelman next season.

Personally, I'm not ignoring the possibility that these players could choose to sign with another team when their contracts are up.


Wes Welker - Free agent in 2012
Deion Branch - Free agent in 2012
Julian Edelman - Free agent in 2013

 

[Off The Grid]

The notoriously short attention of most fans compels them to ignore both Taylor Price and Brandon Tate ~ who are both, effectively, entering their second years ~ despite the overwhelming historical evidence that shows that most quality Wide Receivers ~ indeed, most players ~ take an enormous step forward in their second year.

I'm uncertain of which fans you're referring to but I'm well aware of New England's current roster.

I owe you an apology, Furley: I was actually referring to no fan in particular.

Nary a one.

I do consider your OP to be grievously short sighted, but my statement was not intended to address it. It was intended as a semi-humorous abstract, not as a retort to it. However, in the context I presented it, any reasonable man would've interpreted it as addressed towards him, though that was not my intention. The fault is mine, and I do apologize.

However....

It doesn't hurt a team to retool their depth at a position through the draft.

Seeing as how you phrase that as an absolute, I'm afraid you're wrong, my friend.

It doesn't necessarily hurt a team ~ and, indeed, it usually is a damned good idea.

But if that team already has deep and substantial depth at a given position ~ say: Wide Receiver ~ then it mostly certainly DOES hurt that team, because you just wasted a valuable draft pick on gratuitous and excessive depth, while ignoring more vital needs.

And you can't expect a second or third-year wide receiver on New England to suddenly emerge as a starter or receive more playing time when incumbent starters Wes Welker and Deion Branch are still on the roster and still productive players.

If that were true, it would pretty much annihilate your Argument in favor of drafting new Wide Outs, wouldn't it? Especially somebody like Randall Cobb, who's talents, on a roster that already includes Wes Welker and Julian Edelman, are ridiculously redundant. Why bother?

And as I've clearly laid out, the skill sets of Taylor Price and Brandon Tate ~ unlike those of Cobb ~ are not redundant, relative to those of Welker and Branch. Hence, despite your assertions, they have far better chance of seeing more playing time, this coming year, than someone like Cobb.

And Cobb would have to take somebody's roster spot and impinge on someone's development.

Aren't 3 talented young Wide Receivers enough??

Not to mention, I recall wide receivers such as Chad Jackson (second round, 2006) and Bethel Johnson (second round, 2003) who failed to make the proverbial jump in their second or third season as a professional. Ditto for PK Sam (fifth round, 2004) and Matthew Slater (fifth round, 2008). Under Belichick, only Branch (second round, 2002) and David Givens (seventh round, 2002) hit their stride in their third season. Conversely, it remains to be seen whether or not 2009 draft picks Brandon Tate and Julian Edelman will hit their stride in 2011.

Well...of course.

Nobody's electing Taylor and Price to the Hall of Fame, here.

I'm merely making the point that we've invested a lot of Draft Capital and time in these kids, and there's not much reason, as yet, to think that they're not going to pay off: it's too early for that conclusion.