If Patriots Win, Best Area Championship Ever?

[Tommysgirl]

I was 19 years old in '04, and I did wait my entire life for it. I had absolutely no control over when I was born, and for you to imply that fanhood is somehow conditional on age is ridiculous and small.

Lifelong fan is lifelong fan, no matter how long that life is.

You are right, you can't control when you were born. But you also can't include yourself in the long suffering. You didn't have all the heart break. Heck, I'm 35 and I don't think I can include myself. Seeing my Grandpa cry after watching or listening to EVERY game for the 84 years he was alive will never compare to the feeling me, or anyone younger than me felt. It simply cannot compare.

 

[Watson's IQ]

You are right, you can't control when you were born. But you also can't include yourself in the long suffering. You didn't have all the heart break. Heck, I'm 35 and I don't think I can include myself. Seeing my Grandpa cry after watching or listening to EVERY game for the 84 years he was alive will never compare to the feeling me, or anyone younger than me felt. It simply cannot compare.

For the years I was alive, I suffered the appropriate amount along with everyone else. I certainly don't think it expunged as many bad memories for me as it did for my father, after all I was 1 year old in '86. What I resented was the veiled assertion that somehow expressions of relief and joy from anyone born in the last 25 years were laughable, that's all. Fanhood isn't a competition, certainly not between the old and young. In fact, it's something that brings generations together, as you said. I'm sure my dad was looking at me the same way I was at him and thinking "Now I don't feel guilty that I brought my son up to love the Red Sox as much as I do."

 

[PonyExpress]

This whole "suffering" thing is a fantasy. I was a kid, and while the Red Sox were gagging I like everybody else was rejoicing in the Celtics' dominance. There was no "suffering". Sure I bawled after game 6. Big F'n deal. The use of the term "suffering" is an insult to real life. The Red Sox need to get over themselves and their manufactured myth.

 

[Watson's IQ]

This whole "suffering" thing is a fantasy. I was a kid, and while the Red Sox were gagging I like everybody else was rejoicing in the Celtics' dominance. There was no "suffering". Sure I bawled after game 6. Big F'n deal. The use of the term "suffering" is an insult to real life. The Red Sox need to get over themselves and their manufactured myth.

The term is relative when put in that context, just like any other term you would use. Obviously no one would compare being a "suffering" sports fan to real suffering people in the world, at least I hope they wouldn't. That said, as it applies to sports and the Sox in particular, I don't think it was "manufactured" at all. Just look at the outpouring of emotion after the '04 WS, if you think it wasn't genuine than I don't know what to day.

 

[Patradomous]

I was 19 years old in '04, and I did wait my entire life for it. I had absolutely no control over when I was born, and for you to imply that fanhood is somehow conditional on age is ridiculous and small.

Lifelong fan is lifelong fan, no matter how long that life is.

I was watching Bucky Dents HR fly into the net sitting in the right field stands when I was 19.Sonny Buck, I felt and lived the pain that you only read about in history books.To not understand that is ridiculous and small.
I never questioned you or your fanhood,you made that up.I just said you and others your age don't know the half of it.Thats not ridiculous and small.That is a fact.

 

[PonyExpress]

The term is relative when put in that context, just like any other term you would use. Obviously no one would compare being a "suffering" sports fan to real suffering people in the world, at least I hope they wouldn't. That said, as it applies to sports and the Sox in particular, I don't think it was "manufactured" at all. Just look at the outpouring of emotion after the '04 WS, if you think it wasn't genuine than I don't know what to day.

The real story wasn't the Red Sox winning a title, it was why in a league without a salary cap a major market team couldn't win a single title in 86 years. The answers were racism and incompetent management. The celebration for me was about burying the past, not embracing it. It was more a cultural symbol of the end of a sad era in the city's history than of athletic excellence.

A title by the current Pats squad is the absolute summit of athletic achievement. IMO the Red Sox' title represented less about sports and more about the beginning of a new era in Boston's culture.

 

[Watson's IQ]

I was watching Bucky Dents HR fly into the net sitting in the right field stands when I was 19.Sonny Buck, I felt and lived the pain that you only read about in history books.To not understand that is ridiculous and small.
I never questioned you or your fanhood,you made that up.I just said you and others your age don't know the half of it.Thats not ridiculous and small.That is a fact.

I think you're dead wrong, I'm sorry. I'm well aware of the history of the Red Sox, and it has nothing to do with just reading it in the history books. Fanhood is not a competition. It's not about whose pain or suffering is worse. I'm sorry, I don't need to listen to people tell me "you don't know how it was back in the day" and call me Sonny Buck, or whatever term you want to use. Saying that people my age couldn't possibly "know the half of it" is not a fact. I do know the half of it, and my emotional investment in the team wasn't any less true or valid than people many times my age.

I appreciate the history of the game and its fans, and seeing how profoundly the series win affected my father brought me even more joy than experiencing it myself, because it's a bond we share with each other, and I knew how badly he had wanted it, and for how long.

 

[Patradomous]

By saying that people my age couldn't possibly "know the half of it" is not a fact. I do know the half of it, and my emotional investment in the team wasn't any less true or valid than people many times my age.

It is a fact, you weren't even alive.You read about it.You haven't lived half the pain. Try really being ridiculed by Yankee fans for 40 plus years.EOS.

I'm not questioning your emotional investment.
But when your 19 years old and say "I waited all my life for them to win"
Try being 50 and wait for them to win.
Wait when your 50 and the Bruins win and a 20 year old says I waited all my life,you'll know what i mean.

 

[Watson's IQ]

It is a fact, you weren't even alive.You read about it.You haven't lived half the pain. Try really being ridiculed by Yankee fans for 40 plus years.EOS.

I'm not questioning your emotional investment.
But when your 19 years old and say "I waited all my life for them to win"
Try being 50 and wait for them to win.
Wait when your 50 and the Bruins win and a 20 year old says I waited all my life,you'll know what i mean.

I won't at all know what you mean, because I'll still think it's a ridiculous notion, just like I do now. I hope I'm not in a place where I'd say "my pain is superior to your pain, because I have more of it and I've had it longer." If I'm 50 and I have a 20 year old son, daughter, nephew, whatever, I hope I'm able to share something as ultimately trivial (yet still oddly important) as a sports championship with him/her without qualifying it by saying "yeah, but Sonny Buck, it doesn't mean as much to you because you haven't waited as long". I truly hope I'm not that bitter.

 

[jscout]

Aw, come on, folks. Pain is pain. It doesn't matter how long you've suffered, whether it be 86 years of 10 years. It's all relative. The whole point is that the Red Sox affected more people in New England and more deeply at that. Not taking anything away from the Pats. But there's no arguing that the history of the Red Sox is much longer than the history of the Pats. So take it for what it is.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I can't speak much about the numerous championships that happened before my lifetime in both hockey and basketball (the hype, the satisfaction, the emotion I would have felt), but I would at this point rank the 2004 red sox #1 as I'm sure many would.

In an on-line Boston Globe poll shortly after the 2004 Red Sox victory, the 2001 New England Patriots Super Bowl victory won convincingly as the best sports moment in Boston sports history.

 

[Watson's IQ]

In an on-line Boston Globe poll shortly after the 2004 Red Sox victory, the 2001 New England Patriots Super Bowl victory won convincingly as the best sports moment in Boston sports history.

Prove it. I'm calling shenanigans on that unless you can track it down and show me the evidence.

The only way I buy that as true is if they separated "coming back from 0-3 to beat the Yankees" and "Sweeping the Cardinals in the WS" into two separate choices.

 

[Patradomous]

I won't at all know what you mean

Thanks for making my point.

It not as much about feeling pain as much as it was about feeling relief 04 gave.We were passed feeling pain more like numb.
Relief from '67,72,75,78,86 etc, bad contracts,bad mangment,bad trades,bad players, bad ownership....this all before your birth.
And if you don't understand the humor of "waited all my life" from my perspective.Then you really have no idea. But, you really keep making my point.

 

[Watson's IQ]

Thanks for making my point.

It not as much about feeling pain as much as it was about feeling relief 04 gave.We were passed feeling pain more like numb.
Relief from '67,72,75,78,86 etc, bad contracts,bad mangment,bad trades,bad players, bad ownership....this all before your birth.
And if you don't understand the humor of "waited all my life" from my perspective.Then you really have no idea. But, you really keep making my point.

I'm not making your point at all. I'm telling you your point is ridiculous, and foolish, and I could never imagine being in such a place emotionally where I would consider my fanhood a competition with other generations. It just makes me truly glad that my own father decided to say, in essence "I'm really glad I could share this with you, since I brought you up to care about this team like I do" rather than "you couldn't possibly know what this means, you're not old enough." Now that I've seen what the alternative is, I couldn't be prouder that he treated it the way he did.

 

[Patradomous]

In an on-line Boston Globe poll shortly after the 2004 Red Sox victory, the 2001 New England Patriots Super Bowl victory won convincingly as the best sports moment in Boston sports history.

That is a fact.Jacki MacMullen of the Globe was on a Sunday nite sport show pooh poohing the fact of the poll.Kind of like what the globe does with political polls that don't subscribe to their agenda.

And thats how I would of voted.

 

[allworldrussfrancis]

The whole point is that the Red Sox affected more people in New England and more deeply at that.

I don't necessarily agree with that. Shortly after the '04 WS victory, Boston.com and NESN (both owned by the Sox) had a poll for the greatest moment in Boston sports history. I found out about the poll from the Boston Dirt-Dogs website (part of Boston.com) that urged readers to vote for the Sox I searched all over and this was the only link I could find to the poll. In the end, the Pats first Superbowl narrrowly came in first, just beating the '04Sox.

In the end, I think its apples and oranges and should not be compared. But if you want to compare, I would say the '01 Pats and '04 Sox experiences were comparable. I will say that although the '04 Sox may be more historically important (ending the curse (also invented by Shaugnessy), etc.), if you go back, that first SB victory was the first area championship in a long time, since the '86 Celtics. The SB36 win was against all odds, the perfect end to a magical season where everything seemed to go our way, ended not 86, but still over 40 years of football frustration, involved our new savior Tom and our old savior Drew (who could forget the AFC championship against Pitt), plus the amazing Adam kicks, the greatest football game ever (in my mind) against the hated Raiders in the playoffs.

I think this year should be compared to the '86 Celts, what I consider the greatest sports team in my lifetime. Now, in light of spygate and all the other BS from the haters, a potential victory in the biggest event (sporting or otherwise) of the year, resulting in a perfect 19-0 season would punctuate their standing as the greatest team ever in the biggest sport in the country, having accomplished something that no team in professional sports had accomplished and punctuating their standing as also the greatest dysnasty in football. It is the peak of the mountain.

 

[allworldrussfrancis]

That is a fact.Jacki MacMullen of the Globe was on a Sunday nite sport show pooh poohing the fact of the poll.Kind of like what the globe does with political polls that don't subscribe to their agenda.

And thats how I would of voted.

Yes its a fact. With all of the Patriots continued success, I think people are focusing on today instead of '01.

 

[Watson's IQ]

Yes its a fact. With all of the Patriots continued success, I think people are focusing on today instead of '01.

I guess I'll give you guys the benefit of the doubt, since several confirmed it. I'd still like to see the specific poll and how it was worded if anyone knows where I could get a look at it, since if the results are as they say you are, it surprised me as well.

 

[Patradomous]

I'm not making your point at all. I'm telling you your point is ridiculous, and foolish, and I could never imagine being in such a place emotionally where I would consider my fanhood a competition with other generations.

Keep this with you kid you'll laugh at yourself in time.


... a quote from Mark Twain "When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years."


Its is not generational fanhood competition! Its is generational fanhood experiences!

 

[jscout]

The problem with on-line polls is that they only reflect the opinions of people who have access. I don't know what the make-up is, but I would guess that the demographic of the on-line respondents would slant toward a younger crowd. So forgive me if I don't take those on-line polls as gospel.