idle thoughts: so far....so...

[patfanken]

I don't know if the Patriots are different from any other NFL team. From a Washington Post article this past weekend:

According to the league’s most recent numbers, there were 4,473 injuries in the 2011 season, a 29 percent spike from the previous season.

nice find, Norm, though I'm not exactly sure how to comment on it. I wonder why there was a spike?

 

[patfanken]

For me, any draft pick is developmental for his first season. He COULD be a serious contributor, or not.

ROSTER OPTION 1
We have been going with 8 OL's, so:

OFFENSE 25
2 QB
5 RB
5 WR
8 OL
4 TE
1 ST (Slater)
============
ALTERNATIVE 2
We have often gone with 4 RB's, so
2 QB
4 RB (Ridley, Vereen, Bolden, Washington)
5 WR
9 OL
4 TE
1 ST

OK you CPA'd him . Well I reject your first iteration. I can't see any scenario where the Pats go into a season with only 8 OLmen, especially given Volmer, Mankins, and Connolly's injury history the last couple of years.

I can see the 4 RB scenario as being more likely, but one that includes a FB/SY RB instead of Boldin. BB has been trying hard to incorporate a FB back into his system for a couple years now. It hasn't happened, but I think its more because he hasn't found the right guy year, as opposed to not wanting to do it. Peyton Hillis maybe?

In the end I keep coming back to the WR's, and unless we pick a WR high, I think it would be hard to justify keeping a 5th guy when Hernandez and Vareen will likely pick up a lot of outside/slot snaps.

This is likely to be an offense that has 2 TE's on the field almost all of the time, and 3 TE's more than most teams. I don't know, maybe you can justify it if they end up resigning Edelman and feel that they need a 5th because of Julian and DA's injury histories.

At any rate its an interesting conundrum. One which we will tinker with right up to the first week of September, and won't be shocked at all when Bill does something completely different.

 

[DarrylS]

nice find, Norm, though I'm not exactly sure how to comment on it. I wonder why there was a spike?

Not sure if there can be comments unless we would now the type of injury, extent of the injury and the amount of games lost..

 

[NormZauchin]

nice find, Norm, though I'm not exactly sure how to comment on it. I wonder why there was a spike?

The article was about the medical profession and how team doctors make decisions on player injuries that are different than they would make if you or I were to see them with the same problem. All this, of course, was spurred by the controversy down here in DC surrounding RGIII's knee injury in the playoffs.

I suspect that the spike in injuries in the 2011 season may have been due to increased reporting which, in turn, was stimulated by a new league-wide awareness of the problem with concussions. It will be interesting to see if the 2012 numbers, when they are released, show a continuation of this trend.

My point in quoting the article was that injuries throughout the NFL are very numerous and every team has to factor injuries - past, present, and future - into their decision-making.

 

[patfanken]

The increased reporting insight makes a lot of sense..
I think that the seeming increase in injuries like concussions are the result of 2 reasons, both of which are fixable if the league had the will.

1. First is poor technique. Too many players puts themselves in poor tackling positions with their heads down. Many neck and head injuries are caused by poor body position at contact. You with your head and neck "up", it is in the best position to absorb blows.

2. Reduce the size of the players. The huge hits are a simple matter of physics. If you set limits on player sizes, you can significantly reduce the severity of blows.

When I first started playing football in HS, I was a G/LB, so my first favorite players were Jerry Kramer and Fuzzy Thurston. One was 235 the other was 240. 50 years later and I'm banging the drum to have a 340lb man be the Pats RG. A man who probably has LESS fat hanging over his belt, than Fuzzy did back in the day.

In 1971, I was considered a big SS at 6'1, 205 and acceptably fast enough at 4.8. Today that 4.8 number would make me marginally slow for an ILB, and probably too slow to be a pass rusher.

You just have look at the incredible shrinking Matt Light to realize that many of these players are "artificially" bulked up way passed their natural healthy weight. The game itself would actually improve if all the linemen were, say, limited to 280, all the LB's to 240, etc

Just just throwing it out there

 

[IllegalContact]

The increased reporting insight makes a lot of sense..
I think that the seeming increase in injuries like concussions are the result of 2 reasons, both of which are fixable if the league had the will.

1. First is poor technique. Too many players puts themselves in poor tackling positions with their heads down. Many neck and head injuries are caused by poor body position at contact. You with your head and neck "up", it is in the best position to absorb blows.

2. Reduce the size of the players. The huge hits are a simple matter of physics. If you set limits on player sizes, you can significantly reduce the severity of blows.

When I first started playing football in HS, I was a G/LB, so my first favorite players were Jerry Kramer and Fuzzy Thurston. One was 235 the other was 240. 50 years later and I'm banging the drum to have a 340lb man be the Pats RG. A man who probably has LESS fat hanging over his belt, than Fuzzy did back in the day.

In 1971, I was considered a big SS at 6'1, 205 and acceptably fast enough at 4.8. Today that 4.8 number would make me marginally slow for an ILB, and probably too slow to be a pass rusher.

You just have look at the incredible shrinking Matt Light to realize that many of these players are "artificially" bulked up way passed their natural healthy weight. The game itself would actually improve if all the linemen were, say, limited to 280, all the LB's to 240, etc

Just just throwing it out there

are you familiar with crohn's disease?

Matt Light reveals decade-long battle with Crohn's - ESPN Boston

you just have to face the fact that your generation doesn't hold a match to the next one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6XUVjK9W4o

- a cripple with crutches doing skatboarding tricks
- a one legged high school kid getting a soccer goal on a corner kick
- a wheelchair doing a flip 80 feet in the air

my youngest is a free-runner............all I can say is wow

people keep getting bigger, stronger, faster........better

 

[patfanken]

people keep getting bigger, stronger, faster........better

No question about that IC, but Light's revealing weight loss was no just due to his Crone's disease. Many athletes have shrunk down significantly after they finished their careers.

Athletes ARE bigger faster, and stronger now than in my youth. But with that in mind, I'm just looking at possible solutions to make the game safer without changing the intent. One way would be to shrink the massive size of the players who play it.

Back in my day the military academies and the Ivies had a very competitive 150lb league, where players sweated weigh ins like wrestlers. I remember watching games, and they were very entertaining and competitive. IIRC, this is the football Kraft played in college.

 

[IllegalContact]

No question about that IC, but Light's revealing weight loss was no just due to his Crone's disease. Many athletes have shrunk down significantly after they finished their careers.

Athletes ARE bigger faster, and stronger now than in my youth. But with that in mind, I'm just looking at possible solutions to make the game safer without changing the intent. One way would be to shrink the massive size of the players who play it.

Back in my day the military academies and the Ivies had a very competitive 150lb league, where players sweated weigh ins like wrestlers. I remember watching games, and they were very entertaining and competitive. IIRC, this is the football Kraft played in college.

my stepdaughter has crohn's ..... weight loss due to flare-ups can be pretty sudden

I know what you're saying, but Matt Light is not a good example of that.

I think making the game safer means eliminating the helmet as a weapon or tool for tackling. I don't believe any injury trends are more significant than in the past, but our medicine has gotten better at identifying it, and we have also become more accurate in assessing former players with problems where in the past a player would get knocked out, given some smelling salts, and went back in......and the former players who experience a dramatic downward spiral were simply dismissed as either not being able to handle their celebrity status or not be able to handle not being a celebrity anymore.....we have gotten more accurate eand technical in our understanding of everything.

you simply go to a gym now and everything is different than 20 years ago for normal people like you and me.....you go to GNC and you can get basic whey and protien mixes that can help build mass......people have simply figured things out better.....but overall, I think the injuries are the same.

 

[VrabelJr]

When did Cannon become a better RG than Dan Connolly? Did I hit my head on a rock and go unconscious for a few seasons?

 

[Marqui]

When did Cannon become a better RG than Dan Connolly? Did I hit my head on a rock and go unconscious for a few seasons?

There's no proof that Cannon is better than Connolly already, but he definitely has more upside since he's bigger and more athletic.

 

[ralmat55]

My theory for the increase in injuries is that it's an unexpected consequence of opening the game up as much as it been with the increase in passing resulting in more high-speed collisions. I've often thought that's why the Pats have such a hard time keeping their DBs healthy is they are so poor at defending passes to TEs and RBs that their DBs are constantly being asked to tackle men who outweigh them by 30-50 lbs running full steam at them.

 

[patrickscribe]

No question about that IC, but Light's revealing weight loss was no just due to his Crone's disease. Many athletes have shrunk down significantly after they finished their careers.

Athletes ARE bigger faster, and stronger now than in my youth. But with that in mind, I'm just looking at possible solutions to make the game safer without changing the intent. One way would be to shrink the massive size of the players who play it.

Back in my day the military academies and the Ivies had a very competitive 150lb league, where players sweated weigh ins like wrestlers. I remember watching games, and they were very entertaining and competitive. IIRC, this is the football Kraft played in college.

What was formerly known as "lightweight football" is now called Sprint football. Still exists.

Sprint football - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Metaphors]

I think making the game safer means eliminating the helmet as a weapon or tool for tackling.

I don't think it is much more difficult than that. Everyone in a (reputable) pee-wee football league is taught to tackle with your eyes up, arms in front of your body and wrap up. And you can still hit hard doing it this way. And your arms are in prime position to rip the ball out.

As you indicate, the problems occur when you turn your body into a projectile. That includes offensive players as well. If the league can effectively penalize deviations from these norms, the league will be much safer without changing the spirit and enjoyment of the game.

There will still be plenty of injuries, but you can't avoid that in a contact sport. There will still be plenty of concussions since your brain will still rattle around in your skull after rapid deceleration. But along with evolutions in safety equipment, the game will be as safe as it can be. Some players (<cough>Ryan Clark<cough>) will need to retire or completely change the way they play, but that seems like a small price to pay.

 

[NormZauchin]

The increased reporting insight makes a lot of sense..
I think that the seeming increase in injuries like concussions are the result of 2 reasons, both of which are fixable if the league had the will.

1. First is poor technique. Too many players puts themselves in poor tackling positions with their heads down. Many neck and head injuries are caused by poor body position at contact. You with your head and neck "up", it is in the best position to absorb blows.

2. Reduce the size of the players. The huge hits are a simple matter of physics. If you set limits on player sizes, you can significantly reduce the severity of blows.

When I first started playing football in HS, I was a G/LB, so my first favorite players were Jerry Kramer and Fuzzy Thurston. One was 235 the other was 240. 50 years later and I'm banging the drum to have a 340lb man be the Pats RG. A man who probably has LESS fat hanging over his belt, than Fuzzy did back in the day.

In 1971, I was considered a big SS at 6'1, 205 and acceptably fast enough at 4.8. Today that 4.8 number would make me marginally slow for an ILB, and probably too slow to be a pass rusher.

You just have look at the incredible shrinking Matt Light to realize that many of these players are "artificially" bulked up way passed their natural healthy weight. The game itself would actually improve if all the linemen were, say, limited to 280, all the LB's to 240, etc

Just just throwing it out there

I like your idea of putting weight limits on players by position. You are completely right about the physics. If you run through some straight forward mechanics, you see the terrific force these players absorb. Other sports like boxing, wrestling, and lightweight crew have weight limits and it could work for football. You might want to factor in height, though. A 6' 8" Nate Solder should be allowed a few more pounds than a 6'3'' lineman.

 

[NormZauchin]

are you familiar with crohn's disease?

Matt Light reveals decade-long battle with Crohn's - ESPN Boston

you just have to face the fact that your generation doesn't hold a match to the next one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6XUVjK9W4o

- a cripple with crutches doing skatboarding tricks
- a one legged high school kid getting a soccer goal on a corner kick
- a wheelchair doing a flip 80 feet in the air

my youngest is a free-runner............all I can say is wow

people keep getting bigger, stronger, faster........better

They haven't been getting better in the SATs or even in answering simple questions like in which century the Civil War occurred.

 

[VrabelJr]

They haven't been getting better in the SATs or even in answering simple questions like in which century the Civil War occurred.

People are smarter today than ever. Social Media being at the forefront of society just brings the idiots into the spotlight more than ever.

 

[NormZauchin]

People are smarter today than ever. Social Media being at the forefront of society just brings the idiots into the spotlight more than ever.

You might want to read The Dumbest Generation by Mark Bauerlein to disabuse yourself of the notion that youth are smarter than ever before. And, yes, the digital age has had a major role in creating the high level of public ignorance.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

People are smarter today than ever. Social Media being at the forefront of society just brings the idiots into the spotlight more than ever.

Haven't SAT scores declined? I believe that they've been normalized down at least twice since the 1960s.

 

[NormZauchin]

Haven't SAT scores declined? I believe that they've been normalized down at least twice since the 1960s.

SAT scores reached their peak in 1963 or 1964, then they began a long, slow decline. They were renormalized in 1995 to put the mean score back at 500 on the math or verbal, because the mean scores had been in the 400s for years. In the 70s and 80s, there had been two other, less dramatic, changes that had the effect of making the tests easier. Now there are three tests instead of two and comparisons of post-2005 scores with scores from the 50s, 60s, and 70s is just about impossible.

 

[supafly]

They haven't been getting better in the SATs or even in answering simple questions like in which century the Civil War occurred.

Coming from someone in their mid to late 30's:

The older generation had a ton of heart, courage, and fortitude.

The new/younger generation is indeed bigger, stronger, faster as a whole. They are also more entitled, lazier, spoiled, etc.

That said they also have a harder road to success and it could be argued that many of the problems of society are now more severe (drug addiction, suicide, divorce, unemployment, cost of education, etc).

We could have a regular philosophical debate for weeks about these opinions though.