How much confidence does Brady have in his receivers

[Brady'sButtBoy]

Stallworth's numbers look good on paper but when you look behind the numbers you realize that he really isnt that good. Donovan threw so many long balls to him that it inflated his numbers to look like he was a great WR.

Lets look at some numbers.

Stallworth had a huge amount of receptions last year with 38!!! WOW!

I could get 38 receptions from Donovan if they threw me in there for throw it deep situations.

But of those 38 receptions 14 of which were for over 20 yards or more and another 4 catches were over 40 yards or more. Thats 18 catches. nearly half of his catches were for long pass attempts.

Okay maybe you like that sort of player. Maybe you feel the Patriots want to spend a ton of money on a long ball guy. Thats great and all but what can he do in the short passing game that makes Tom so effective.

In a word he is terrible. He cant make the catch and run for the first down he makes a catch for says 3 yards and maybe gets an extra yard. While guys like Gaffney Reche Troy and others somehow always seem to be getting extra yardage out of a play.

I went back and added up all those 20+ yard bomb play and it comes out to be 493 yards for him. 493!
So if i took away his long plays, so 725 - 493 is 232 yards.
232 divided by 20 (his receptions not over 20 yards) he only averages an 11.6 YPC average.

To have you better understand that Jabar, Troy Brown, Chad Jackson, Reche Caldwell all put up better numbers.

Trust me you dont want this guy. The numbers look good but theres a story behind the numbers.

I've heard it all, now. Stallworth is no good because he specializes in catching long passes? He can't get three tough yards but can regularly free himself for 25yd passes, and thus he's of no significant value? Chad Jackson put up better numbers? In what - dominoes?

Gaffney? Even counting Jabbar's 2 long passes of over 20yds and 0 catches for 40+yds his average is but 1.3yds better than Stallworth's minus his 14 passes of 20+yds and 4 catches of 40+yds.

Caldwell averaged 12.5yds/catch including his 14 plays over 20yds. So by your convoluted math Reche really isn't any good either because yards from his deep catches artificially raised his average up from around 6 or 7 yds/catch.

Pass me some of that Kool-aid, brother!

 

[JoeSixPat]

As I'm sure has been pointed out, the Patriots don't need a #1 WR who is going to catch 100 passes a year. They need a #1 WR who emphasizes the "Wide" aspect of the position.

Even once the existing WRs developed their timing and routes with Brady they still never stretched the field, requiring the O to compensate by running a hurry up/no huddle and multiple receiver sets to try to keep the D honest.

I don't think they ran those plays enough, but you also can't do that all game either - they need a legitimate deep threat - not one that makes 70 catches a season - just one that can average 16-18 yards a catch for 30 receptions a season.

That would be more than enough.... the positive impact of that goes well beyond those stats - it opens the running game, the TE game the RB as receiver, and keeps pressure off of Brady. It's something we lacked last season and I doubt they will go into next season without quality depth at the WR position.

Jackson has potential but I wouldn't put all my eggs in that basket.

Donte Stallworth at 19 yds per catch last year would have been a HUGE addition here. Drew Bennett is another. Both of these guys will be priorities for their current teams before Free Agency starts but if I were them I'd wait to see what the market will pay.

While a WR who wants to be paid like a #1 and wants to get 80+ catches a season will be disappointed, guys like these who are good for 40 deep catches will likely find that the Patriots value them more than other teams, and could actually see a better offer coming from us as opposed to others.

 

[SeanBruschi54]

I've heard it all, now. Stallworth is no good because he specializes in catching long passes? He can't get three tough yards but can regularly free himself for 25yd passes, and thus he's of no significant value? Chad Jackson put up better numbers? In what - dominoes?

Gaffney? Even counting Jabbar's 2 long passes of over 20yds and 0 catches for 40+yds his average is but 1.3yds better than Stallworth's minus his 14 passes of 20+yds and 4 catches of 40+yds.

Caldwell averaged 12.5yds/catch including his 14 plays over 20yds. So by your convoluted math Reche really isn't any good either because yards from his deep catches artificially raised his average up from around 6 or 7 yds/catch.

Pass me some of that Kool-aid, brother!

So the Patriots installed a West Coast Offense now?

I had no idea.

Why dont you actually read.

 

[DaBruinz]

Realist is not a term that jumps to mind. Just my opinion but your posts paint you as a Kool-Aid guzzler and a BB/SP apologist. There is nothing wrong with that, I am more skeptical (glass 1/2 empty, quite possibly), the truth is likely in the middle.

The second paragraph is a great example of your approach, it usually goes something like "The Pats were right.." followed by some made up rambling about their perspective.

My point for both Walker and Mason, the only part that we really know for sure is that they did not get either player. Because they came up short they must shoulder some of the blame.

That is such a friggin ABSURD point of view. Its a know FACT that Mason's wife was the one who made the final decision to go to Baltimore. Do How in the BLAZES is that the fault of the Patriots? How can you blame them for something that was out of their control?

Nothing I have posted is some made up rambling about the Pats perspective. All you have to do is actually do a little research instead of talking out your arse.

 

[DaBruinz]

I must be the most cynical person in the world and missed by daily shot of Kool-aid.

I think I said "Talk is cheap, in free agency there is no second place. Trying is not good enough, if they think the WRs are weak then they should bring someone in to improve the unit. In both years 2005 & 2006 they came very close, maybe one more play maker would have made a difference."

Mason - With Mason there was not much more they could do, what man whats to go against his wife. Can you imagine what your life would be like if you made her move to a place she wasn't interested in? Trust me, it would be hell. I don't blame them for not landing Mason but question there plan after missing out. No one of any significance was brought in at WR in 2005, the plan B is what I question.

So, YOU just assume that the Patriots didn't have a plan because because you are ignorant of it. Got it. Yes, BB and PIOLI are so stupid that they didn't have a Plan B or Plan C or anything else. They just put EVERYTHING on trying to sign Mason.

Man, that is just ignorance on your part.

Walker - I don't think Branch called Walker. I think the Broncos made a stronger run at him and were aggressive enough to land him. Maybe blame is a strong word but I would at a minimum put some responsibility on the Patriots.

That makes it two years in a row they tried to get a 1, 1A type WR and came up short. Both years they restocked with players who could be considerd a 2nd ,3rd or 4th WR.

Hmm.. So you are so smart and intelligent that you can see the future and you KNOW with 100% certainty that Chad Jackson is only going to ever amount to a #2 receiver.

 

[dhamz]

Mason - With Mason there was not much more they could do, what man whats to go against his wife. Can you imagine what your life would be like if you made her move to a place she wasn't interested in? Trust me, it would be hell. I don't blame them for not landing Mason but question there plan after missing out. No one of any significance was brought in at WR in 2005, the plan B is what I question.

How do we know that Plan A wasn't sign Mason, trade Givens who was a restricted FA? Givens agent said there was a significant trade offer that the Pats turned down to retain him for 1 year. Plan B could very well have been to keep Givens.

 

[cstjohn17]

How do we know that Plan A wasn't sign Mason, trade Givens who was a restricted FA? Givens agent said there was a significant trade offer that the Pats turned down to retain him for 1 year. Plan B could very well have been to keep Givens.

That was plan F. Plan B was to trade Givens for Torry Holt, Dan Klecko for Julius Peppers and Patrick Pass for LT...

Whatever their plans were it is a pretty steep drop off from Mason to Andre Davis and David Terrell.

Ok, I give. I am so tired of the WR talk, here it goes...

The Patriots played the 05 & 06 offseasons perfectly, there is nothing they could have done differently to improve the WRs. More importantly they are stocked with high quality WRs.

 

[patsfan55]

It might be unfair but its a way too look at a player not invloved in a west coast offense. What i did would give you the true stats for a team like ours.
.

how is that fair
you said all our receivers were above his avg
so did you take away their long passes too???

 

[patsfan55]

Because no other player would fill the void. Building a team is not like shopping for a home when relocating. It isn't as if you absolutely have to have a house so when the first one falls through you scurry to find another one immediately.

NE felt that Walker and Mason provided good value and made a run at them. When they did not happen they clearly did not see as much value from some of the others on the market. Why sign an expensive WR if he will only duplicate what guys on the roster already do. Go after the guys that you feel will be worth the money and then go picking in the garbage bin.

Do you have an example of highly compensated WR that was available in the past two years that NE obviously missed on?

Again, if you are going to fault them, fault them for picking the wrong guys in the garbage bin, not for missing on the expensive guys.

bingo
youve got bingo

 

[patsfan55]

Ok, I give. I am so tired of the WR talk, here it goes...

The Patriots played the 05 & 06 offseasons perfectly, there is nothing they could have done differently to improve the WRs. More importantly they are stocked with high quality WRs.

rofl
come on you cant give up

 

[DaBruinz]

The Patriots played the 05 & 06 offseasons perfectly, there is nothing they could have done differently to improve the WRs. More importantly they are stocked with high quality WRs.

Can you explain what you would have had the Patriots do differently since you seem to imply that you know more intimate details than you are letting on.

Oswlek and myself are giving you PUBLIC RECORD items. You are offering up nothing but unsupported opinion other than you are correct that the Patriots didn't sign a "#1 WR." However, you blame the Patriots front office saying they didn't do enough, yet you offer up NOTHING as an answer as to what they could have done to improve the situation.

If you are going to ***** about the situation, at least have a potential solution to the situation.

Hell, just tell everyone who YOU would have signed in 2005 instead of Mason. And who would you have signed in 2006 instead of Walker (who wasn't a free agent, btw).

 

[Seneschal2]

The Pats gave Mason the highest bid. Unfortunately for the Pats, Mason's WIFE chose Baltimore because she had family there. How can you blame the Pats for that? How can you blame the Pats for Branch bold-faced lying to Walker and to all the fans? How can you blame the Pats because the Broncos refused to let Walker out of Denver without a deal being done? LIFE doesn't work that way.

All reportedly true.

While Brady might not "get attached" to an outgoing free agent, I think everyone can agree that the QB/Receiver relationship is a bit more than just 2 people playing catch. I said this at the start of the season when things weren't going well. That is takes time for the QB and Receiver to learn each other's nuances.

Very accurate. If I had to choose which was more important, the quality of skills of a WR, or an established relationship between QB and WR -- I'd choose the latter. Brady's early on frustration was most likely due to that relationship being a missing ingredient of the passing offense.

Now, hopefully, this off-season the Pats give Caldwell and Gaffney each a 2-3 year extension to help solidify the position.

Also, hopefully Reche, Watson and Jackson are working with the JUGS machine that Brady has dialed in to his throwing style. And, hopefully, my the time free agency comes around, Brady and those 3 are working together to get on the same page.

Understated for sure. It's absolutely crucial.

---

Some further thoughts from a memory that struggles of late...

The Pats FO deserve credit for possessing some degree of foresight for their attempt at signing Mason. All FA signings are a two-way street (our own and others). The failure to sign Mason and his eventual signing with the Ravens is well documented, so I'll let that rest. If the Mason attempt was plan A (as insurance for a possible departure of Branch or Givens), what was plan B? IIRC, Plaxico Burress was the ONLY remaining FA WR option available. Obviously, either the Pats had no interest in Burress or the $$$ wasn't right...but point being -- he wasn't a reported legitimate option.

Now on to the REAL plan B...

Approx. one month after the FA attempt of Mason, was the draft. At the WR position, Braylon Edwards, Troy Williamson, and Mike Williams were all drafted in the top 10. The next WR selected was Matt Jones at #21. Jones was considered a late riser due to his exc workouts...and not consensus ranked in the top 20 (like the others) going in. After Jones went Mark Clayton...ironically to the same Ravens at #22. The acquisition of Mason and the drafting of Clayton was an obvious effort at strengthening their porous WR corps which I believe was ranked near the bottom.

Post-draft, an article from a Ravens site mentioned the Pats contacting them wanting to trade into the Ravens #22 slot. The reported player of interest was WR Clayton. I clearly remember this article -- because I posted it. FWIW, Clayton was the #1 WR prospect for the Pats on my board. Now obviously the Ravens declined the trade offer because of their own interest in Clayton. But clearly, the Pats had a plan A (Mason), and a plan B (Clayton) in place, if either Branch or Givens departed. We may never know if the Pats would've brought in both of those WRs (as the Ravens did for themselves)...but it doesn't really matter though, bottom line is, either one of Mason or Clayton would've been a quality go-to target for Brady.

So a very conscious effort was made by the Pats FO to not leave the WRs corps without a quality wideout...forcing themselves to acquire a lesser-skilled WR to become Brady's go-to. Personally, I can't fault them at all...