How many "front 7" defenders on the 53?

Discussion in ' - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patchick, Aug 27, 2012.

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  1. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member Supporter

    #50 Jersey

    My roster keeps ending up with only 13 DLs/LBs, considering that:

    - nickel/dime defenses will surely dominate
    - Fletcher's out of the picture
    - Pryor will be on PUP and Francis, Harrison & Forston are strong PS candidates
    - DBs tend to drop like flies

    I'm curious to hear other opinions. Here's my current roster, FWIW:

    QB (3) Tom Brady, Ryan Mallett, Brian Hoyer
    RB (4) Danny Woodhead, Stevan Ridley, Shane Vereen, Jeff Demps
    WR (6) Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd, Deion Branch, Matthew Slater, Julian Edelman, Jabar Gaffney
    TE (3) Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Daniel Fells
    C (2) Dan Connolly, Ryan Wendell
    G (4) Logan Mankins, Brian Waters, Nick McDonald, Donald Thomas
    T (4) Sebastian Vollmer, Nate Solder, Marcus Cannon, Darrion Weems
    DE (4) Chandler Jones, Jake Bequette, Rob Ninkovich, Jermaine Cunningham
    DT (4) Vince Wilfork, Kyle Love, Ron Brace, Brandon Deaderick
    ILB(5) Jerod Mayo, Brandon Spikes, Donta Hightower, Bobby Carpenter, Jeff Tarpinian
    CB (6) Devin McCourty, Ras-I Dowling, Kyle Arrington, Sterling Moore, Alfonzo Dennard, Marquice Cole
    SS (2) Patrick Chung, Nate Ebner
    FS (2) Steve Gregory, Tavon Wilson
    ST (3) Stephen Gostkowski, Zoltan Mesko, Danny Aiken

    Total players: 52
    Created with Pats Picker: Pats Picker 2012
  2. DocHoliday

    DocHoliday In the Starting Line-Up

    I love it. Great job
  3. Armchair Quarterback

    Armchair Quarterback In the Starting Line-Up

    #37 Jersey

    Harrison is not PS eligible, I think those three (Harrison, Forston, Francis) might be fighting for the final spot.

    I'd have Bolden on the team and Weems off.
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2012
  4. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member Supporter

    #50 Jersey

    Whoops, thanks, I had Harrison's resume confused with a player from last year's camp. If you do add one of those three, who would you cut?

    That was exactly my final back-and-forth choice. I like Bolden's potential a lot, but looking at both the Patriots' roster and the league in general this year, a spare RT is looking awfully valuable.
  5. Sicilian

    Sicilian Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    I'd keep Trevor Scott, but beyond that I can't see anyone else poised to make this team beyond what you listed. Possible we could add someone after other teams make their cuts, but based on who we have now I see 14.
  6. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    #22 Jersey

    Just for starters when coming up with numbers I generally like to back up each position. As it looks like we prominantly 4-3 thats 8 DL and 6 LBs for a total of 14 in the front seven. You want more and you are borrowing from another position. Also I like to consider Nickle and 3rd WRs as starters so I do admit that backing up every position means 24 on D and 24 on O only leaving 5 spots 3 of which are the K, P and LS. So based on my logic that only leaves 2 STs spots and Slater has one of them so after backing up each spot and accounting for STers there is one remaining spot and at least 3 positions where we would seemingly want an extra body(TE,RB,Safety, STers)

    I could see going with 13 like the OP suggests as there are several positions on this team where we may want to carry an extra body. Carrying 13 in the front seven can be afforded as Carter is still out there and Warren I believe has said he is finishing his career here plus I think we can get a couple of front seven guys to the practice squad like Tarp or Rivera.
  7. Armchair Quarterback

    Armchair Quarterback In the Starting Line-Up

    #37 Jersey

    You only had 52 on your roster so no cuts necessary.

    I might be the only one thinking this but I'm not sold on Vereen at all. Bolden can back up Ridley for the lead back role. Vereen can fight it out with Demps, who's already shown the explosiveness Vereen hasn't and Woodhead who's proven to be an effective 3rd down back.

    While I agree that a capable tackle would be a valuable addition, I don't think Weems is it. Maybe a trade or a waiver claim.

    Other than Bolden /Weems and the 53rd spot I have the same roster.
  8. mgteich

    mgteich Veteran Supporter

    I would point out that three weeks ago it was critical for most here to have SIXTEEN front seven players. I believe 13 is fewer than we have ever kept. BTW, who is your 53rd player?

    1) I think that we need at least one more in the front seven. Either Scott or Warren works for me.

    2) I am not sure about about Tarpinian. To be one of the 13 or 14, he needs to add to more to the defense than Scott and Warren. Perhaps he does and should be kept instead of Scott. belichick will judge. The 13th and 14th roster front seven positions are NOT a special teams positions. I believe that #15 and #16 are special teams positions.

    3) I'm OK with giving one of the front seven ST positions to Cole instead of a front seven player.

    4) We need another safety. The only carryover from 2011 is the oft-injured Chung. I would keep Ihedigbo over Dennard. We just can't afford a developmental player who hasn't practiced much on a 23 or 24 man defensive squad.

    5) On the offense, I think that Weems is a placeholder for the OT, we hope to sign from other teams' cuts. Also, Koppen may still make the team over Wendell or MacDonald.

    So, compared to you,

    IN: Scott, Warren, Ihedigbo
    OUT: Tarpinian, Dennard

    Last edited: Aug 27, 2012
  9. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member Supporter

    #50 Jersey

    :rofl: Boy, you'd think the big "52/53" at the top of the Pats Picker would have tipped me off!

    Well that certainly is handy. I see 4+ candidates for the final slot:

    and maybe Shiancoe

    I could also easily picture a player like Weems being on the "delayed Turk" plan -- surviving the cut for just a day or two to increase the chances that he clears to the PS, then getting booted off in favor of a pickup from another team's final cuts.
  10. Armchair Quarterback

    Armchair Quarterback In the Starting Line-Up

    #37 Jersey

    Warren has already been cut.
    Dennard's potential should keep him on the team.
    I doubt Koppen makes the team over Wendell or McDonald but could see him make it over Weems.
    Tarpinian, I'm kind of indifferent about but they'll need a 5th LB either way.
  11. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member Supporter

    #50 Jersey

    Wasn't Warren already cut?

    As for swapping out Tarpinian for Scott, assuming that a 4-3 is the putative 7-man base that leaves the team with 5 DEs for 2 starting positions, and 4 LBs for 3. If anything, I'd see them looking for another 4-3 LB from the final countdowns.

    At DB, the format requires a strict division between CB and S but I'm looking at Dennard as a potential 5th safety (and Ihedigbo as a perfect shadow roster player).
  12. PP2

    PP2 In the Starting Line-Up

    #12 Jersey

    In a pinch, McCourty will swing over to safety as we saw last season, especially in nickel or dime (consider how much we play in those), so I don't think we'll see a 5th safety on the roster.
  13. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    Nice list. Because there's so much versatility on both offense and defense, for the first time in years I have a group consisting of less than 53 players with which I'm pretty happy:

    Offense (25):

    QB(3): Brady, Mallett, Hoyer
    RB(4): Vereen, Ridley, Woodhead, Demps
    TE(3): Gronkowski, Hernandez, Fells
    WR(6): Welker, Lloyd, Gaffney, Branch, Edelman, Slater
    OL(9): Solder, Vollmer, Mankins, Connolly, McDonald, Wendell, Thomas and either Waters or Koppen depending on Waters' situation

    Defense (23):

    DT(4): Wilfork, Love, Brace, Deaderick
    DE/OLB(4): Jones, Ninkovich, Bequette, Cunningham
    LB(5): Mayo, Hightower, Spikes, Carpenter, Tarpinian
    S(4): Chung, Gregory, Wilson, Ebner
    CB(6): McCourty, Dowling, Arrington, Moore, Dennard, Cole

    ST (3):

    K: Gostkowski
    P: Mesko
    LS: Aiken

    That makes 51 slots, with 2 additional spots available. I feel pretty comfortable right now with all of the guys listed making the final 53 given the latest roster cuts. With Stallworth cut I think that Gaffney/Branch/Edelman is pretty set. The OL looks pretty set right now except for Waters' situation and whether we keep a 10th OL. My core players on defense are identical with yours, and I think they're pretty secure. Tarpinian is the least secure and could be edged out, but White has been injured, Koutivides and Rivera havne't impressed, and there is a need for a coverage LB.

    For the final 2 spots, I could see some of the following options:

    - 5th RB vs. 4th TE. Right now Bolden vs. Shiancoe.
    - 10th OL. With McDonald banged up and OT thin, this could defintely be an option.
    - 5th DT or DE: Pryor should start the year on PUP. Either Harrison or Forsten could sneak on to a spot, or Francis/Scott as an additional DE.

    Plus the Pats always seem to add a player or two from other teams after final roster cutdowns, so keeping 2 extra spots available works for me for now. I probably favor keeping an additional DT or DE, whose spot could be filled by Pryor if he is able to come off PUP after week 6. It would probably be easier to sneak a guy like Forston or Francis onto the PS at that point.
  14. mgteich

    mgteich Veteran Supporter

    My bad.

    So, I have now have room for Scott AND Tarpinian.

    I still prefer Ihedigbo to Dennard. Personally, I don't think that there is a perfect shadow roster player. They have a habit of wanting to be on someone's roster.

  15. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member Supporter

    #50 Jersey

    Sounds like we see it pretty much identically, with the only difference being that I already penciled Weems in as player #52. I also agree that Tarpinian seems like the most vulnerable of the top 51, but he's becoming such a fixture at multiple ST roles that he's probably on the 45 each week. That makes it harder for a new signee to push him out.
  16. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    I'd drop Tarpinian as he is useless againt run, pass or ST.
    Weems merits no more then a PS slot, if that.

    I'd add Bolton and Scott.

    Call them whatever you want OLB or DE. As Coach said, They are end of the line players, whatever you call them".
  17. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member Supporter

    #50 Jersey

    I guess I'd say the same thing to you that I said to mgteich -- whatever you call them, you're allotting 5 roster spots to the 2 "end of the line" players, and just 4 roster spots to the (commonly) 3 LB/ILBs. That's a tough sell for me.
  18. PP2

    PP2 In the Starting Line-Up

    #12 Jersey

    FWIW, Water's stall in the locker room is still intact.
  19. Avenger

    Avenger Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    #11 Jersey

    If we drafted a second round CB who then missed most of camp nobody would be clamoring for him to be cut. Dennard is a second round talent that another team will claim.
  20. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    I tend to agree about Tarpiniain. I'm dubious about Weems. Regardless, history says that the "final 53" will be tweeked quite a bit prior to the 1st game (and thorughout the season, though that's a different issue) once other teams make their cuts.
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