Herald's Rap Sheet: G Nick Kaczur undergoes back surgery

[BelizePats]

mgteich is right. It's all about depth with Kazur now likely out for the season!
What concerns me is that Neal has not played a full season in years and I don't think it takes much of a leap of faith to assume that this trend will likely continue in 2010. If Neal goes down in game 4 and misses the next 4-6 weeks, then what?
At this point, after watching the second units inability to offer much in the way of protection in Atlanta, I'm hoping we pick up a late OG release from another team. I think we need another veteran with a few years battle tested NFL experience on this roster ASAP.
Mankins would be a great addition but I just don't see it happening. His time in NE looks to be done.
Given what's at stake (a healthy Tom Brady) and what looks like a strong 2010 team, I'd even be willing to part with the Panthers second that we own to secure the right veteran. Yes, its a steep price but its nothing to pay when the alternative might be getting Tom Brady killed.
Its all about depth and right now our OL depth looks shaky with the news of Kazur's back surgery.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Time for BB to pick up a vet OG discard for depth

 

[BPF]

Connolly has played well this preseason as has the 1st unit OL but I believe if Kaczur winds up on IR the Pats will be looking for interior OL help via a trade or the waiver wire. The 2nd unit has struggled and I no longer see Wendell or Larsen on the week 1 53. Larsen to PS.

Quick-hit thoughts around NFL & Pats - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

3. When the Patriots set their final 53-man roster, I expect at least one player to come from another team. I would guess that Bill Belichick has his scouts looking closely at interior offensive linemen across the NFL.

 

[Kontradiction]

Whatever for?

I seemed to remember you saying some glowing things about Bussey in the offseason.

 

[sg14]

So our tackles are going to ne Light, Volmer and Levoir??

Bussey might make this team just due to a numbers game.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Time for BB to pick up a vet OG discard for depth

Time to open the checkbook, pay Mankins and Brady and do that voodoo they do do so well on the cap.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Time to open the checkbook, pay Mankins and Brady and do that voodoo they do do so well on the cap.

The 1st is simply not going to happen

The Pats apparently have an upper limit for their value on the OG position and it's not high enough for Mankins

Back to BB's past strategy of signing OGs off the scrap heap and Scar coaching them up. Hope it works.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

The 1st is simply not going to happen

The Pats apparently have an upper limit for their value on the OG position and it's not high enough for Mankins

Back to BB's past strategy of signing OGs off the scrap heap and Scar coaching them up. Hope it works.

That's not how I see it. The Pats now have one of the greatest if not the greatest QB ever to play the game going into his final three or so most productive years. (Maybe he'll prove to be Elway or Favre and produce at the highest level after 35, but we just can't know that. For now, Elway's the only QB to win a SB after he turned 36.) What we do know is that Tommy is playing at the highest level now and likely will for another few years.

I think they should throw out "the way we've always done it." A Tom Brady only comes to your team once in a generation, if that. Damn, but I think a healthy Brady could bring them two more trophies over the next three or four years. They've given him the tools. Now make sure he has an O line that can give him the time and save his body.

 

[Lamanai]

Quick-hit thoughts around NFL & Pats - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

What about Russ Hochstein? While he's not exactly the ticket to a Lombardi, he knows the Pats system, has excellent position flexibility (OG, C, FB, OT, TE) and could be available on the cheap (6th rounder?) Having him available for short yardage FB duties would eliminate the need/risk of Connolly to play that role. As I recall, he stepped up nicely in the biggest game of his career.

Not sure if Denver's line has enough experience to let him go, but it might be worth exploring. I for one would rather be pro active and go after a guy like RH than to wait for some castoff who is totally unfamiliar to the Pats. Just because some guy is a veteran, doesn't mean he's gonna stabilize our line in a pinch.

If there is some team out there with extraordinary OL depth, i'd be in favor of pulling a trade there as well. Draft pick (5th-7th), or a bubble guy. Baltimore is badly in need of CBs. Maybe Wilhite would interest them? Not sure if their blocking schemes are consistent with ours, so it might be a mismatch.

Just an idea...

 

[UofApatsfan]

I think they should throw out "the way we've always done it."

Their behavior indicates that they have. They just made Vince Wilfork the 2nd highest paid DT in the NFL, and they won a bidding war with the Texans to resign Bodden. They wanna resign Mankins, his agent is just making the job impossible. A team trying to be more physical and run more is gonna want to keep its most physical run blocker.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I think they should throw out "the way we've always done it." A Tom Brady only comes to your team once in a generation, if that. Damn, but I think a healthy Brady could bring them two more trophies over the next three or four years. They've given him the tools. Now make sure he has an O line that can give him the time and save his body.

So, you think that BB will say that Mankins is worth spending $7+ million more per year of Bob Kraft's money than say Connelly?
You think that the OG position is worth that much of the Pats future cap position?
And you think that seting the precedent of meeting his top end demands will not affect the contractual behaviour of upcoming Pats players in future contract years, skill positions, OTs, etc?

Perhaps BB and Kraft agree with you. Me, I don't think so.

Were they of that mind, no reason to have Logan miss all of camp.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

So, you think that BB will say that Mankins is worth spending $7+ million more per year of Bob Kraft's money than say Connelly?
You think that the OG position is worth that much of the Pats future cap position?
And you think that seting the precedent of meeting his top end demands will not affect the contractual behaviour of upcoming Pats players in future contract years, skill positions, OTs, etc?

Perhaps BB and Kraft agree with you. Me, I don't think so.

Were they of that mind, no reason to have Logan miss all of camp.

I stated my position in terms of what I see as the special circumstance of having perhaps the best QB in the history of the NFL heading into what should be three very productive years at the highest level, after which we don't know what will happen; he could be an Elway or a Favre in terms of his longevity or, like every other high caliber, HOF QB, his skills could begin to decline. It's no accident that only one QB has won a SB after turning 36 (Elway).

So, I'm saying it's not about setting a "precedent" in that sense, unless they draft another Brady or Montana or P. Manning.

It's about maximizing the kind of great thing that comes along once in a very, very long while. Sticking stubbornly to a formula that has admittedly worked well in the past, might not work as well as the clock is ticking into an unknown future.

I'm not addressing this final comment to you, but sometimes I just don't think a lot of people here realize just how special Brady is. Just ask the fans in Pittsburgh and Dallas who lived through the decades between Bradshaw and the next SB, between Staubach and Aikman.

That's just how I see it. I don't mind disagreeing.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

We agree on how special Brady is

 

[zoogies]

It's about maximizing the kind of great thing that comes along once in a very, very long while. Sticking stubbornly to a formula that has admittedly worked well in the past, might not work as well as the clock is ticking into an unknown future.

I felt this way but not anymore about Mankins.

Sometimes it's a mistake, but more often than not it isn't. Decisions like this are made with the team in mind. Meaning, it is ALL about getting the team the proper pieces - and getting Brady the proper tools to work with.

Hand Mankins a contract more than what he's worth, and you end up having to scrimp at other positions. Or sending the wrong locker room signals, destroying leverage you might have in contract situations in the future. In the end, I think we won't cave and whether Mankins stays or goes, it won't be all that important. Someone might step up at guard. He's not Brady and he's not Wilfork.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I seemed to remember you saying some glowing things about Bussey in the offseason.

Bussey's OL coach said glowing things about him relative to his teammate drafted in round one by Buffalo. I've given him the benefit of the doubt based on that report, but certainly no reason to harass the ever consistent SanAngelo...you on the other hand would be fair game.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Interesting analysis. I'd tend to rank Wendell ahead of O for 3-position versatility (he also takes wedge reps on the KR unit), but agree with you O has looked stronger at RG. Larsen looks like a good PSquad prospect, I love his athleticism in the open field and would be interested to see what Scar can do with him. Ghiaciuc didn't look too bad at OC, and was okay at either Guard, I'd call him competitive, but rank him behind W & O.

I thought I saw Bussey taking LG reps too (apologies, you were right it was Bussey at LT on the Jenkins run, I thought I'd seen a "4" and I think LeVoir had subbed briefly for him on the previous drive so I was still thinking it was Mark trying to decapitate a DB). I'd rank Bussey as #4 OT at this point, but it does seem as if he's one-sided and not a Swing, which seems to be born out by the reports of Simmons taking OT reps at both positions. Welch is PSquad bound, he hasn't looked that bad run blocking, but he's just not adjusting to the speed of NFL pass rushers - perhaps a year of Woicik & Nash foot speed drills with practice reps against TBC will get him tuned up for speed off the edge (I also think the communications between him and his RG du jour have struggled).

I have purposefully been watching who plays as a reserve interior linemen and where and how they do.

Connolly has looked fine in both the run and pass plays.

Curiously he has also been used as the FB while another linemen came in to play "his" LG position too. Guess who?

Wendell has played LG and Orhnberger has played lots of RG, Frankly Ohrnberger has been about the only one subbing for Neal. He also subbed for Koppen at C. He also subbed for Connolly at LG,although others have played there too.

Larsen has played C, and also LG. I think I saw a small number of snaps by Bussey at other than LT where he has played a lot. Those were at LG.

Based on those reviews I rank th effectiveness as:
TOP 2:
Connolly -virtually a regular.
Ohrnberger - good enough to be a reserve at all three interior spots. Probably the next most effective. I've seen him in with at least two TDs scored directly over his position. TD runs by Maroney RG, and Taylor LG (Connolly played FB!). I thought he looked better than Guiacuic.

OK:
Wendell has been OK at LG and occasionally at C.
Guiaciac has been only OK at LG and mostly C. Not noticeably better than Connolly or Ohrnberger. Surprising for a 42 game starter.

AT Tackle:
Levoir has been the main sub at both tackle positions.
Bussey has been OK at LT, against second stringers. Probably next in line and not as disaster, in any snap.

NOT OK:
Welch is not ready for Prime time. PS at best.
Larsen absolutely is not ready for Prime time. PS at best.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

We agree on how special Brady is

I always assumed so, given your great posting history here.

Where we disagree is that I think they should suspend "business as usual" when it comes to the next couple of years at certain key positions and worry about the fallout later. A very good case can be made against that, I know, in terms of precedent and lockerroom issues a few years down the line. It's just how I see things.