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GB vs NE Defensively

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mgcolby, Nov 4, 2011.

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  1. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    On the way into work this morning I heard a national analyst talking about every fanboy's favorite subject...power rankings!

    He asked how the Pats could be in the Top 5 with that putrid defense and that some power rankings had them as high as #2 behind the Packers. His next statement is what got me thinking and ultimately led to this thread.

    He stated that Green Bay is clearly #1 and then went on to list several other teams in order; before returning his attention back to the Pats, once again putting the low ranking on the Pats defensive play.

    Now, I don't particularly give two ****s about power rankings. But I do know that most people consider Green Bay to be the best team in the league, which is well deserved coming off a Super Bowl win and opening the season 7-0.

    But, I have watched everyone of Green Bay's games, and without stats to prove it, I didn't think the Packers defense was any better than ours. I thought everything that is said about the Pats defense could easily be said about the Packers defense (can't get off the field on 3rd down, terrible against the pass, decent against the run, hold teams to FG's in the red zone etc...).

    So, I decided to go through the stats just to see if my observations were accurate. Come to find out, I couldn't have been closer to the truth....

    Because of the formatting here is how to read the info below:

    1. I listed the team's defensive averages and league rankings at the top
    2. Then I listed each teams opponents offensive ranking in four categories (total passing, total rushing, Total offense and Points Per Game scored)
    3. Then I listed each opponents offensive average for the season in parenthesis followed by the total season average of the opponents and where that average would rank league wide.
    4. Opponent record for each team (includes games played against GB and NE)

    Here is the raw data:

    Green Bay
    Passing: 290 (31st)
    Rushing: 102 (10th)
    Total: 391 (28th)
    3rd down: 43% (22nd)
    PPG 20 (9th)

    NO : Pass: 1st Rush: 11th Total: 2nd PPG: 2nd
    CAR: Pass: 5th Rush: 7th Total: 5th PPG: 14th
    CHI: Pass: 17th Rush: 15th Total: 16th PPG: 13th
    DEN: Pass: 30th Rush: 8th Total: 27th PPG: 23rd
    ATL: Pass: 18th Rush: 17th Total: 17th PPG: 17th
    STL: Pass: 26th Rush: 20th Total: 28th PPG: 31st
    MIN: Pass: 29th Rush: 3rd Total: 18th PPG: 20th

    (Opp season Averages) (Total Avg/would be league rank)
    PPG (32.5;23.4;24.3;19;22.6;12.4;21.5) (22.2 / 19th)
    Total (441.1;415.1;421;305.4;335;304.3;332.6) (364.9 / 13th)
    Rush (117.4;129.6;114.7;125.9;112.7;105.9;150.4) (122.3 / 10th)
    Pass (326.8;285.5;222.7;179.6;222.3;198.4;182.2) (202.5 / 24th)
    Opp Record: 20-32

    New England
    Passing: 323 (32nd)
    Rushing: 101 (9th)
    Total: 424 (32nd)
    3rd down: 46% (30th)
    PPG: 23 (17th)

    MIA: Pass: 25th Rush: 12th Total: 21st PPG: 28th
    SD : Pass: 6th Rush: 13th Total: 6th PPG: 15th
    BUF: Pass: 13th Rush: 5th Total: 10th PPG: 3rd
    OAK: Pass: 23rd Rush: 2nd Total: 12th PPG: 16th
    NYJ: Pass: 22nd Rush: 28th Total: 29th PPG: 11th
    DAL: Pass: 7th Rush: 15th Total: 8th PPG: 18th
    PIT: Pass: 8th Rush: 14th Total: 9th PPG: 19th

    (Opp season Averages) (Total Avg/would be league rank)
    PPG (15.3; 23; 30.1; 22.9; 24.6; 22.3; 22) (22.8 17th)
    Total (318.9; 399.4;380.1;365.6;300.1; 394.3;388.8) (363.9 13th)
    Rush (116.9; 116; 140.6; 159.3;92.4;114.7; 115.4) (122.1 10th)
    Pass (202;283.4;239.6;206.3;207.7;279.6;273.4) (241.7 12th)
    Opp Record: 26-24

    My point here for those wondering, is that the "best team in the league" has the exact same flaw that we have. Every team in the league is hurting somewhere. The Eagles O-line is garbage, LB's suck. The Ravens have Flacco and a mind numbing reluctance to run the football. The Steelers O-line leaves a lot to be desired and have LB's dropping like flies due to injury, not mention Big Ben's love affair with turnovers in big games. The Packers defense is a liability. New England's Defense is a liability. I could go on.

    I have stayed away from posting this week because this place becomes unbearable after a loss. From garbage like "Maybe Bill Walsh was right" and other threads, one would think this was a 2-5 team coming off a loss to the Rams at home.

    We lost to the defending AFC champions on the road by 8 points, playing the worst football we have played all season. The putrid defense held the Steelers to 6 points in the second half. The offense struggled to adjust to the surprising man pressure etc.... it was one loss get over it.

    I think far to many people only watch the Pats play on Sunday, then watch highlights on ESPN of the other games. And then listen to uninformed opinions from the talking heads, like my example above.

    Maybe they even go as far as comparing these Pats with Patriot teams of the early 2000's; which were one of the most efficient, and well disciplined football teams to ever step on to a football field. Then come to the conclusion that this team isn't good enough to win it all.

    The only thing that is relevant now, is how they stack up against the other 31 teams in the league this year. And coming from someone that watches every game, every week, this team stacks up really well!
  2. JJDChE

    JJDChE Rookie

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    I'll just put this right here...

    The last 4 games we're allowing our opponents 2.7ppg less than their season average.
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2011
  3. Ron Sellers

    Ron Sellers Rookie

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    I think it's a lot of fans blindly following whatever the media tells them, and right now the Packers are flavor of the month. My guess is that once the Packers lose a game or two the tide will quickly turn and some of these very same analysts that are hyping them today will label them as overrated tomorrow.

    I haven't seen every game like you have but from the games of theirs that I have seen I had the same identical impression. Thanks for taking the time to pull those stats together.
  4. LasVegasPatsFan

    LasVegasPatsFan Rookie

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    Winning masks problems and loosing exposes them. That's media for you.
  5. randomk1

    randomk1 Rookie

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    Packers have lost Collins and Cullen Jenkins...those guys were big pieces in that last years D.

    They are still better than our D though.
  6. Sivy

    Sivy Rookie

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    Packers have played crap teams..I love how people just ignore these things
  7. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is off-topic, but related to this. People are talking about Rodgers as a legitimate candidate to set the passer rating record. What they don't realize is that he hasn't faced a top-half passer rating defense yet, and he won't until he plays the Lions.
  8. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Based on what? The stats tell you they are nearly identical against similarly ranked offenses. Actually, the Packers defense is ranked 31st in the league in passing against an opponent average passing yardage per game that would rank 24th in the league. The Pats opponents on the other hand would rank 12th.

    So once again please explain what makes GB's defense better? :confused:
  9. primetime

    primetime Rookie

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    stating that the packers are 31st and the patriots 32nd and acting like theyre sooo close isnt telling the true story. the patriots allow almost 40 more passing yards per game than the packers, have fewer turnovers, and the packers have a passer rating against of 70 versus the patriots' 92
  10. bigfandan

    bigfandan Rookie

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    Completion%/YPA
    GB 59.7%/7.8
    NE 66.7%/8.3

    This is interesting: 40+ yard play:
    GB 5
    NE 2

    NE is among the leaders in not giving up 40+. But the flip side is it gives up too many 1st down pass completions (%).

    NE seems to be too conservative in playing deep coverage. I would risk it and tighten the coverage. You either stop it or give up a big play. If opp makes a big play and score, it still leave plenty of time for TB and company. I don't want to see the slow march down the field that eat 5+ minutes, and TB and company sitting on the bench with barely anytime to work with.

    Take more chances, BB.



    Last edited: Nov 4, 2011
  11. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 Rookie

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    i wont get into how much more talented the Packers are at DB cause i really Dont care cause come playoff time the Packers have to face the Giants Saints and 49ers to get to the SB not the Ravens Jets steelers and the up and comeing Texans who have Arian Foster Andre Johnson Matt Schaub and a top 5 defense,

    out of the NFC playoff teams right now only the 49ers have a top 10 defense every AFC playoff team other then the Bills has a top 10 defense and they pitched a shut-out last week, what does that mean ? no team in the NFC will hold the Packers under 25 points maybe the 49ers but they Dont have the passing game to beat the packers... the pats have not beat a team with a winning record this year when scoreing under 25 points and every team in the AFC has the talent to hold the pats under 25 and they all have the passing game to light up this defense
  12. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Against the following QB's:

    Brees
    Newton
    Cutler
    Orton
    Ryan
    Bradford
    Ponder

    Average QB rating: 83.8

    Two rookies, three struggling QBs in Orton, Bradford (injured) and Ryan. Not exactly murderers row. Combined average of 24th ranked passing offense in the league.

    And New England:

    Henne
    Rivers
    Fitzpatrick
    Campbell
    Sanchez
    Romo
    Rothlisberger

    Average QB rating: 87.2

    A combined average of 12th in the league passing. Seems to be a bit of a difference in the quality of the passing game.

    And according to NFL.com the Packers opponents QB rating is 79.3 and the Pats is 93.9.

    YPP is GB 7.8 to NE 8.3, each has allowed 12 passing TD's. NE has allowed 8 more plays of 20+ and 3 less 40+. And the INT's are 13 to 9 not a huge difference, IMO.

    So I'm not seeing your argument. Basically you are saying they have a better QB rating and 4 more turnovers against lesser competition?
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2011
  13. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    Problem is: Green Bay's offense is bailing them out because they are playing consistently good. NE's isn't, or at least didn't for a couple games.
  14. JJDChE

    JJDChE Rookie

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    The Packers are also allowing 4.6 ypc in the run game (25th) vs 4.3 ypc for the Pats (18th).

    They're at 6.2 yds/play, we're at 6.4 yds/play.

    The Packers defense sucks just as bad as ours does. The Bills are right there with us, too. I'll give a little more props to the Bills, as they've played a decent schedule. The Packers schedule has been pretty week. 3 contenders (if you can call the Bears and Falcons contenders) vs. 4 bottom dwellers.

    Someone got it right already, the difference is their offense hasn't missed a beat yet.
  15. dhamz

    dhamz Rookie

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    Defending Super Bowl champions, 7-0 = flavor of the month?
  16. patsinthesnow

    patsinthesnow PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey
    I'm not a homer but this will be a homerish remark.

    Pack: vs. NO, @ Car, @ Chi, Den, @ ATL, ST, @ MIN
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Pats: @ Mia, SD, @ Buf, @ Oak, NY, DAL, @ PIT

    Who says the Packers aren't 5-2 with the Pats schedule? Who says the Pats aren't 7-0 with the Packers schedule (Opening day would have been crazy, the rest I liked our chances)
  17. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Packers have some legitimate flaws in that defense. I've said that from day one. Their safety position, while not as bad as ours, is a question mark. With that said, if these two teams were to meet, this game would either be a win for the Packers, or a blowout win for them. For the Packers defense, they can legitimately play man-to-man coverage and have the corners that are physical enough to bump our guys at the line of scrimmage and re-route them, forcing Brady to hold onto the ball longer. Their corners can also run with our receivers. They have a guy in the middle who is capable of creating a one man pass rush right up the A-Gap, something that gives Brady a world of trouble as he isn't exactly fleet of foot. They are also capable of creating a rush around the edge with Clay Matthews. So, with Brady having to hold onto the ball longer because of physical man coverage while staring down B.J. Raji coming up the middle and getting bombarded from the outside by Clay Matthews, the Packers would most definitely be able to force enough stops and three and outs to win the game. On the flip side, Aaron Rodgers would be facing sporadic pressure from the outside and soft, pansy ass, let-everything-happen-in-front-of-you, BBDB, zone coverage on his receivers. Rodgers, Jennings, Nelson, Driver, and Finley would absolutely eat that for breakfast. We'd have to rely on our good red zone D to get the job done. It's either that, or hope that we play Haynesworth for more than 11 snaps to get some pressure up the middle and hope that Devin McCourty suddenly realizes just who the hell he is. But until then, this game would be a decisive victory for the Fudgies.
  18. JJDChE

    JJDChE Rookie

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    You know we're the last team to beat the Packers, right?
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2011
  19. moosekill

    moosekill Rookie

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    LOL I love it when people make dumb comments and state them as if they were fact.
  20. Triumph

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    And, the last NFC team to win in NE it was the Packers.
  21. FCB02062

    FCB02062 Rookie

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    Patriots fanboys need to stop worrying about other teams. because the jets "suck" or Sanchez threw four picks, and Green Bay's defense isn't that good, doesn't change the fact that the New England Patriots defense is historically, historically bad right now and the 1991 New England Patriots could move the ball at will on the 2010 version. Sure, it can change, and I really hope it will. But with a clear lack of PLAYMAKERS on the defensive side of the ball, I don't see it changing anytime soon. When the Patriots get PLAYMAKERS like Charles Woodson and Darrelle Revis, let me know....Seriously, do the New England Patriots have any PLAYMAKERS on defense? I'm not buying Wilfork as a playmaker because someone will say he is....anyone else???????
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2011
  22. TheComeback

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    I've heard this "historically bad" argument about a million times now, and it completely ignores the fact that every defense around the league is playing historically bad against the pass. It doesn't actually mean anything.

    Sorry, but I can't get myself all worked up over giving up a bunch of passes. If we were historically bad at giving up points, which is what matters, then I'd be concerned. But guess what... we're not.

    As for the Packers, with that soft schedule they seemingly have a chance to go undefeated. But they won't. They aren't the 2007 Patriots, even though everyone treats them that way. Two weeks ago I saw that team nearly nearly lose to the Christian Ponder-led Vikings, and we're only halfway through the season. They're the best in the league, but right now that isn't saying much.
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2011
  23. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Continually advocate for taking the long view of what is going on here..

    The records are telling..

    Indy 0-7, no Manning no wins..
    Miami 0-7 ,Saint Parcells helped craft this team
    Saints 4-3, after getting a beat down from St. Louis
    Cowboys 3-4, always a preseason favorite by many
    Philadelphia 3-4, they had Superbowl T-Shirts already printed

    It goes on and on, seems as though a lot of folks have NEPyopia.. the league wants parity, and on any given Sunday..
  24. JJDChE

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    in 2002...They'll get their chance again in 2018.

    I think the 2010 game is a bit more relevant, although Rodgers was out for that game.
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2011
  25. JJDChE

    JJDChE Rookie

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    Unfortunately, the great majority of people (not just Patriot fans) don't have the ability to think more than about 15 minutes into the future.
  26. RodThePat

    RodThePat Rookie

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    The Packers have a recent record of success with a very similar defensive personnel. That's enough to put them considerably above the Patriots defense, which hasn't been good since 2006.
  27. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    When did allowing 22.8 PPG become historically bad? And don't bring up passing yards the rules are a joke, not to say our pass D is good. But passing yards around the league are a joke.

    And no Hugh Millen wouldn't move the ball against this defense.
  28. folamzz

    folamzz Banned

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    I don't know if the packers will go undefeated or not, but your reasoning why they can't is flawed. The 2007 pats almost lost to a Jay feely led eagles and a kyle bowler led ravens, yet they went undefeated. The packers led for all of the second half of that vikings game and were never in danger of losing

    I think the packers can go undefeated if somebody takes out eagles or saints for them. The eagles have the corners to take out their receivers and the offense to match greenbay's scoring
  29. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Much better based upon what?
  30. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Just so I am clear.
    Your argument is that the Packer defense that has allowed 290 passing yards a game to:
    Brees
    Newton
    Cutler
    Orton
    Bradford
    Ryan
    Ponder
    Will stiflle that slug Tom Brady with their pass defense.
    Want to reconsider that?
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