Former Patriot Kevin Turner diagnosed with CTE

[SlowGettingUp]

If mere contact were the only reason CTE to occur, wouldn't there be more than just 50 cases over the last 15 years.

Well, first there are obviously a lot more cases than just 50 given the only way to diagnose right now is via post mortem. We simply don't know how many.

Secondly, it seems pretty clear that people have varying degrees of susceptibility to repeated head trauma. Nobody currently knows why - likely there is a genetic component. It is important to understand we are not talking a purely mechanical process here - there is very likely concomitant neuroinflammation in both CTE and in post-concussion syndrome. There is an overlap with both Alzheimer's (tau) and ALS (TDP43) pathology.

Here are a sampling of very recent abstracts that discuss some of these issues:

Postconcussion syndrome: demographics and predictors in 221 patients. - PubMed - NCBI
Microglial neuroinflammation contributes to tau accumulation in chronic traumatic encephalopathy. - PubMed - NCBI
Prolonged Repetitive Head Trauma Induces a Singular Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy-Like Pathology in White Matter Despite Transient Behavioral Ab... - PubMed - NCBI

 

[RobertWeathers]

Well, first there are obviously a lot more cases than just 50 given the only way to diagnose right now is via post mortem. We simply don't know how many.

Secondly, it seems pretty clear that people have varying degrees of susceptibility to repeated head trauma. Nobody currently knows why - likely there is a genetic component. It is important to understand we are not talking a purely mechanical process here - there is very likely concomitant neuroinflammation in both CTE and in post-concussion syndrome. There is an overlap with both Alzheimer's (tau) and ALS (TDP43) pathology.

Here are a sampling of very recent abstracts that discuss some of these issues:

Postconcussion syndrome: demographics and predictors in 221 patients. - PubMed - NCBI
Microglial neuroinflammation contributes to tau accumulation in chronic traumatic encephalopathy. - PubMed - NCBI
Prolonged Repetitive Head Trauma Induces a Singular Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy-Like Pathology in White Matter Despite Transient Behavioral Ab... - PubMed - NCBI

I'll need to find where I read it but a scientist/doctor had a theory that genetics and the actual distance between the brain and the skull were potential reasons for CTE. So, if I have 1/8 of an inch of sponge between my brain and skull and you had 1/16th of an inch, you have a greater chance of CTE than I do because you brain is hitting the inside of your skull with more frequency and with potentially greater force.

Sounds reasonable....not sure I buy it.

 

[Brit patriot]

We will never get to flag football....but we will see players signing disclaimers, and many top athletes maybe moving away from the NFL to less dangerous things.

People will still want to play, just like people still box, do MMA, drive cars at mental speeds, play rugby....

 

[Brit patriot]

People have different brains which take punishment differently. This is why in boxing you have defensive genius' like Wilfredo Benitez ill, and human punching bags like Jake La Motta going strong

 

[QuantumMechanic]

We will never get to flag football....but we will see players signing disclaimers, and many top athletes maybe moving away from the NFL to less dangerous things.

People will still want to play, just like people still box, do MMA, drive cars at mental speeds, play rugby....

When a municipality's insurer refuses to write a liability policy because that municipality has tackle football in its schools/rec leagues, you will see tackle football eliminated in that municipality. And I'll bet you that'll be coming.

 

[Noexcusesfornumber5]

Time out here. I'm no expert, but if mere contact was the sole reason for CTE, then it wouldn't there be THOUSANDS of more players with the disease. The kind of head contact that is ASSOCIATED with the disease certainly isn't at all uncommon. I played full contact football for 10 years. It was a time when you were taught to put your face mask into the chest of the ball carrier....and THEN slide it. For almost all of those 10 years I was a collision player and had my share of big hits and collisions that, on occasion, left me....how should I put this......slow to get up. I was known throughout my experience as a "hitter"

But I was certainly not alone in this experience. Tens of thousands players of my era played the same way. Hundreds of thousands played in the decades before that and hundreds of thousands have played since that time. In other words there were LOTS of players who have played full contact football and do NOT have CTE.

If mere contact were the only reason CTE to occur, wouldn't there be more than just 50 cases over the last 15 years. Things like brain chemistry, or the genetic propensity of having that "tau protein might also be factors. I'd ask questions like, does CTE occur only through head contact? Have their been cases of in so called "normal" people? Did the ALS abet the development of the CTE?

I don't know the answer to any of these questions and I'm not saying that head contact ISN'T the reason for it or a primary cause. And from what I understand it is a disease that can only be diagnosed post mortem, which certainly limits the data base of the research.

I know I let my kids play football, and though there were plenty of times I felt that they was something wrong with there heads, they have turned out to be fine men, and I have forgiven them for their HS and College years when they drove me crazy. Football was a great experience for them and of course a bonding point for our relationships. I hate the thought that kids will be kept from playing a great game simply because people thought playing the game at the HS and College levels would LIKELY cause them to get CTE.

It would seem that there would be a greater chance of your kid getting hurt in a car accident, or drinking beers, than if they played football....and other such analogies. BOTTOM LINE, there is a lot more that has to be learned before one can make the case that football causes CTE

You're not wrong, Ken. I was as headstrong in my sports as well. I played Soccer, I was a ski racer, before helmets were mandatory, I competed on horseback, taking harder falls at higher rates of speed than a football player could ever take. I've been knocked clear unconscious before an event even began, and still competed that day. People were tough back then. You had to, or you would lose your spot, your respect, and even your hunger. Because if you didn't fight back, then how can you look that guy in the mirror (or your own Dad) and convince him you still belong out there?

The difference is, the fact that, and I am speaking about the NFL alone, a technique perfect tackle is nowhere to be found in today's NFL. What you illustrated was a textbook tackle, yet how often do you see that nowadays at the elite level? They want the sexy hit, the bone jarring highlight block that started 6 to 10 yards away. They want Bing, Bang, Boom! Every game, and if they could almost every play. Of course, our team is guilty of it too, but that is what the league has fostered within all of the teams.

I truly believe that football will survive, the way we enjoy it now, however, the league will have to find a way to overcome this, because CTE will come to the forefront of the leagues issues, and the owners won't be able to throw $44 million at a guy that won't succeed in the upcoming CBA. This issue will kill Goodell and the owners, and they will blame him because he upheld all rights for the league, even when it would have been best to back off and show some faith for the players. The Union will kill the NFL over CTE, and I guarantee, Brady will be at the forefront as a Rep gainst the league regarding CTE. They have made a huge mistake by ignoring it for so long, and concentrating on Deflategate instead. Let's see if Robert Kraft stands behind Roger Goddell then.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

At some point we might also have better helmets - for example my bicycle helmet has a MIPS system that claims to reduce rotational forces:

Here's an article from a few years back on some ideas - I assume there might be a more recent version someplace on the web:

The Helmet That Can Save Football

 

[FirstAndGoal]

Hate to say it but I think we're looking at the death of tackle football as we know it. Unless something comes up that explains these cases as something other than CTE, there's going to be a diminishing pool of talent to choose from. It's only a matter of time now. If the sport survives, it's going to look dramatically different in 20 years IMO.

 

[ViperGTS]

Perhaps a Sprint Football league where the maximum weight of each player is 172. You end up with a team made up of all guys basically the same size and it is a very fast game. Imagine a team made up of all Edelmens. That would be a good one to watch.

Not a bad idea but will never happen.

These guys get paid millions. Raise the minumum pay to 1-1.5 million. Adjust Cap accordingly. They know the risks and mitigate them the best they can. It dangerous and it not like these players don't know that ahead of time. It's the youth football that needs to be stringently regulated.

 

[Dr Pain]

Not a bad idea but will never happen.

These guys get paid millions. Raise the minumum pay to 1-1.5 million. Adjust Cap accordingly. They know the risks and mitigate them the best they can. It dangerous and it not like these players don't know that ahead of time. It's the youth football that needs to be stringently regulated.

If we each throw in 10Gs we can start the ProSprint league. Claim your franchise territory now.

 

[Hael]

Not a bad idea but will never happen.

These guys get paid millions. Raise the minumum pay to 1-1.5 million. Adjust Cap accordingly. They know the risks and mitigate them the best they can. It dangerous and it not like these players don't know that ahead of time. It's the youth football that needs to be stringently regulated.

That sort of argument is not going to fly in front of a judge or a senate oversight panel. Well gee, we knew they will all die of some horrible debilitating disease that makes them crazy, but your honor we pay them well!!!

The only thing that will save football is some sort of new helmet tech, but even that's not clear. I've heard the primary concussion mechanism isn't big, bone jarring hits, but rather repeated and frequent small scale hits like the sort offensive lineman take. Hard to protect people from that...

 

[ViperGTS]

That sort of argument is not going to fly in front of a judge or a senate oversight panel. Well gee, we knew they will all die of some horrible debilitating disease that makes them crazy, but your honor we pay them well!!!

The only thing that will save football is some sort of new helmet tech, but even that's not clear. I've heard the primary concussion mechanism isn't big, bone jarring hits, but rather repeated and frequent small scale hits like the sort offensive lineman take. Hard to protect people from that...

Uhhhhh...get paid a ton. Voluntarily knowing the risks you still do it? This isn't indentured servitude. Don't want the risk, don't play. It's a pretty simple concept.

Same goes for any contact sport. Do I sometimes feel bad for them? Sure. Then I see the mansions and exotics cars. Planes and beach homes in Cabo.

Then I sit and enjoy the show.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I can't believe I read this but pinhead Tanguay is trying to draw an interesting correlation.

The element of this story that remains a mystery is the impact of PEDs on an NFL player’s brain. The late Frank Gifford suffered from CTE, but he died at 84. While his family said he suffered symptoms, did you ever see Frank on Monday Night Football and think he was struggling? And the guy was on TV forever. Kevin Turner died at 46. Many other cases of suicide and brain injuries have occurred in players who were in the game from the 1970s on. I don’t think it's a coincidence that the players from the steroid era have been more dramatic cases than their predecessors. Of course, no one -- the players or the NFL -- want to touch that narrative.

Tanguay: Kevin Turner news makes it impossible to look at football the same

 

[Brewskies]

Football, boxing, MMA...everything would be at risk of shuddering.

The risk isn't worth another death. It's time to reconsider the sports venues .

 

[ViperGTS]

The risk isn't worth another death. It's time to reconsider the sports venues .

Isn't it their choice? So you want to tell people what they can and can't do sports wise to make a living?

 

[DarrylS]

Sorry for Kevin Turner and his family, I liked him when he played for the Pats. I think he was a flannel shirt guy.

What really irritates me is how the National Press is framing this story, "Former Pats Player dies of CTE"... he played for the Pats for three years, and played for Philadelphia for 5 years. Why doesn't it say "Former NFL Player dies of CTE..." Or "Former Eagles player dies of CTE"??

Maybe I am a tad oversensitive.. but frame the story correctly.

 

[Brit patriot]

Has anyone got a link to 'An American Man'?...seems it was a HBO documentary on him

 

[RobertWeathers]

Sorry for Kevin Turner and his family, I liked him when he played for the Pats. I think he was a flannel shirt guy.

What really irritates me is how the National Press is framing this story, "Former Pats Player dies of CTE"... he played for the Pats for three years, and played for Philadelphia for 5 years. Why doesn't it say "Former NFL Player dies of CTE..." Or "Former Eagles player dies of CTE"??

Maybe I am a tad oversensitive.. but frame the story correctly.

Just a quick "Google" of Kevin Turner and "news" I'm just seeing "Fmr NFL player".

The target is on the nfl for this one, not the Pats.

 

[DarrylS]

Just a quick "Google" of Kevin Turner and "news" I'm just seeing "Fmr NFL player".

The target is on the nfl for this one, not the Pats.

I have seen frmr Patriot on some news sources... but it is not all that important.

Boston.com, combackblog, Huffington Post.. it irritates me nonetheless in the shallow world of news reporting.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I have seen frmr Patriot on some news sources... but it is not all that important.

Boston.com, combackblog, Huffington Post.. it irritates me nonetheless in the shallow world of news reporting.

Pats grab clicks so I wouldn't take it too personally.