Former Patriot Kevin Turner diagnosed with CTE

[Mack Herron]

Kevin Turner, former NFL player, diagnosed with CTE - CNN.com

Turner was a star running back at the University of Alabama from 1988 to 1991 before being picked in the third round of the draft by the New England Patriots. He played for the Patriots for three seasons followed by five seasons with the Philadelphia Eagles. He died in March after a six-year battle with amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, or ALS, known as Lou Gehrig's disease.
The new diagnosis was announced today by Dr. Ann McKee of Boston University and the Concussion Legacy Foundation. CTE can be definitively diagnosed only via autopsy.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Not a surprise. Stage 4. Just horrible...

Some day they will find a way to screen or diagnose what stage CTE a person has that isn't after the patient has passed away.

Just read this.

After the 2002 diagnosis, Boston University has found at least 50 football players with CTE. One of which was only 17 years old. With this Neuropathologist Dr. Ann Mckee had identified four stages of chronic traumatic encephalopathy:

1. Isolated spots of the of the tau protein build up around the frontal lobe of the brain. No symptoms are shown.

1. Defective tau proteins affect more nerve cells in the brain’s frontal lobes. The patient shows symptoms of rage, depression and impulsive behavior.

1. The tau protein expands beyond the frontal lobe to the temporal lobe of the brain. This affects the hippocampus and amygdala. These sections are responsible of for your emotion and memory. Therefore the patient suffers from confusion and memory loss.

1. By stage 4, the tau protein has taken over the brain, has killed several cells and has shrunk the brain to almost half its original size. The patient now suffers from advanced dementia.

Chronic Traumatic Encephalpathy’s (CTE) Effects on the Brain

 

[PatsFan92]

The move to flag football is not far away. If they don't do it, then concussions will kill the sport of Football as we know it. I think it has to be done because the human body is not designed to endure such punishment and the ripple effects are being felt now. We have to care about the health of these players before, during and after their careers and the way the game is being played right now is detrimental to their long term health. Chris Borland made a smart decision in my opinion to retire with his brain still in tact. The NFL is afraid of him because when he retired, he spoke out about these issues.

The NFL has been neglecting this issue for far too long now and has had a good time lying to their players about concussions and I don't know how nobody has gone to jail over it. Its time for them to start really looking after the players for once and not just thinking about using their bodies just to make profit.

Football as it is right now is on borrowed time.

 

[raduray]

I've been an avid Patriots fan since the '70's and a football fan even longer than that. But as the brain injury risks have become clearer, it has raised awareness of the physical risks associated with this game. Hardly a weekend goes by without at least one season ending injury. And consider the long term effects, look at all the retired players we've lost to CTE. And take a look at Earl Campbell trying to walk. It's hard to ignore and it takes away from the enjoyment of the game. There is now an underlying element of guilt when watching. I don't know how the NFL addresses this, or if it even can, but absent that Football will go the way of professional boxing.

 

[PatsFan92]

I've been an avid Patriots fan since the '70's and a football fan even longer than that. But as the brain injury risks have become clearer, it has raised awareness of the physical risks associated with this game. Hardly a weekend goes by without at least one season ending injury. And consider the long term effects, look at all the retired players we've lost to CTE. And take a look at Earl Campbell trying to walk. It's hard to ignore and it takes away from the enjoyment of the game. There is now an underlying element of guilt when watching. I don't know how the NFL addresses this, or if it even can, but absent that Football will go the way of professional boxing.

I fully agree. Once Tom and Bill are gone then I will be done with watching Football. I too feel guilty when watching the game now after the exposure to the effects of concussions on the long term health of players. Health and safety of the players over entertainment any day.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Not a surprise. Stage 4. Just horrible...

Some day they will find a way to screen or diagnose what stage CTE a person has that isn't after the patient has passed away.

And that's what the NFL and the owners are deathly afraid of. If such a test can be developed and it is fairly non-invasive (say just a blood draw) then that could be the end of pro football, especially if CTE is seen in high school football players.

 

[IllegalContact]

I would more likely stop watching because of this than anything Goodell has ever done

 

[RobertWeathers]

I would more likely stop watching because of this than anything Goodell has ever done

Football, boxing, MMA...everything would be at risk of shuddering.

 

[patfanken]

Not a surprise. Stage 4. Just horrible...

Some day they will find a way to screen or diagnose what stage CTE a person has that isn't after the patient has passed away.

Just read this.

After the 2002 diagnosis, Boston University has found at least 50 football players with CTE. One of which was only 17 years old. With this Neuropathologist Dr. Ann Mckee had identified four stages of chronic traumatic encephalopathy:

1. Isolated spots of the of the tau protein build up around the frontal lobe of the brain. No symptoms are shown.

1. Defective tau proteins affect more nerve cells in the brain’s frontal lobes. The patient shows symptoms of rage, depression and impulsive behavior.

1. The tau protein expands beyond the frontal lobe to the temporal lobe of the brain. This affects the hippocampus and amygdala. These sections are responsible of for your emotion and memory. Therefore the patient suffers from confusion and memory loss.

1. By stage 4, the tau protein has taken over the brain, has killed several cells and has shrunk the brain to almost half its original size. The patient now suffers from advanced dementia.

Chronic Traumatic Encephalpathy’s (CTE) Effects on the Brain

Time out here. I'm no expert, but if mere contact was the sole reason for CTE, then it wouldn't there be THOUSANDS of more players with the disease. The kind of head contact that is ASSOCIATED with the disease certainly isn't at all uncommon. I played full contact football for 10 years. It was a time when you were taught to put your face mask into the chest of the ball carrier....and THEN slide it. For almost all of those 10 years I was a collision player and had my share of big hits and collisions that, on occasion, left me....how should I put this......slow to get up. I was known throughout my experience as a "hitter"

But I was certainly not alone in this experience. Tens of thousands players of my era played the same way. Hundreds of thousands played in the decades before that and hundreds of thousands have played since that time. In other words there were LOTS of players who have played full contact football and do NOT have CTE.

If mere contact were the only reason CTE to occur, wouldn't there be more than just 50 cases over the last 15 years. Things like brain chemistry, or the genetic propensity of having that "tau protein might also be factors. I'd ask questions like, does CTE occur only through head contact? Have their been cases of in so called "normal" people? Did the ALS abet the development of the CTE?

I don't know the answer to any of these questions and I'm not saying that head contact ISN'T the reason for it or a primary cause. And from what I understand it is a disease that can only be diagnosed post mortem, which certainly limits the data base of the research.

I know I let my kids play football, and though there were plenty of times I felt that they was something wrong with there heads, they have turned out to be fine men, and I have forgiven them for their HS and College years when they drove me crazy. Football was a great experience for them and of course a bonding point for our relationships. I hate the thought that kids will be kept from playing a great game simply because people thought playing the game at the HS and College levels would LIKELY cause them to get CTE.

It would seem that there would be a greater chance of your kid getting hurt in a car accident, or drinking beers, than if they played football....and other such analogies. BOTTOM LINE, there is a lot more that has to be learned before one can make the case that football causes CTE

 

[Mack Herron]

I would more likely stop watching because of this than anything Goodell has ever done

The game can survive its commissioners and owners. CTE may be another story.

 

[Tuck]

And that's what the NFL and the owners are deathly afraid of. If such a test can be developed and it is fairly non-invasive (say just a blood draw) then that could be the end of pro football, especially if CTE is seen in high school football players.

Can't wait to see that. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of guys.

 

[Tuck]

From the CTE Wiki:

Robert A. Stern, one of the scientists at the Boston University CTE Center,[15] said in 2015 that "he expected a test to be developed within a decade that will be able to diagnose C.T.E. in living people".

 

[QuantumMechanic]

If mere contact were the only reason CTE to occur, wouldn't there be more than just 50 cases over the last 15 years.

Right now it only gets diagnosed if the next of kin chooses to donate the deceased's brain to a lab that can do the test. I doubt that happens very often. Especially outside of NFL players who died recently.

 

[primetime]

Right now it only gets diagnosed if the next of kin chooses to donate the deceased's brain to a lab that can do the test. I doubt that happens very often. Especially outside of NFL players who died recently.

I suspect most of the incentive is in a) knowing why your loved one died or acted the way they did, i.e. if it was due to brain damage, and b) potential for class action lawsuits. Both of which are totally legitimate. But people should find out before they die.

 

[Tuck]

If the league were really concerned about the risk to players, they would go back to the old foam padded helmets. I guarantee guys would stop leading with their heads if they were to do so.

Only problem is people love watching big hits when guys crack helmets, so....

 

[RobertWeathers]

Time out here. I'm no expert, but if mere contact was the sole reason for CTE, then it wouldn't there be THOUSANDS of more players with the disease. The kind of head contact that is ASSOCIATED with the disease certainly isn't at all uncommon. I played full contact football for 10 years. It was a time when you were taught to put your face mask into the chest of the ball carrier....and THEN slide it. For almost all of those 10 years I was a collision player and had my share of big hits and collisions that, on occasion, left me....how should I put this......slow to get up. I was known throughout my experience as a "hitter"

But I was certainly not alone in this experience. Tens of thousands players of my era played the same way. Hundreds of thousands played in the decades before that and hundreds of thousands have played since that time. In other words there were LOTS of players who have played full contact football and do NOT have CTE.

If mere contact were the only reason CTE to occur, wouldn't there be more than just 50 cases over the last 15 years. Things like brain chemistry, or the genetic propensity of having that "tau protein might also be factors. I'd ask questions like, does CTE occur only through head contact? Have their been cases of in so called "normal" people? Did the ALS abet the development of the CTE?

I don't know the answer to any of these questions and I'm not saying that head contact ISN'T the reason for it or a primary cause. And from what I understand it is a disease that can only be diagnosed post mortem, which certainly limits the data base of the research.

I know I let my kids play football, and though there were plenty of times I felt that they was something wrong with there heads, they have turned out to be fine men, and I have forgiven them for their HS and College years when they drove me crazy. Football was a great experience for them and of course a bonding point for our relationships. I hate the thought that kids will be kept from playing a great game simply because people thought playing the game at the HS and College levels would LIKELY cause them to get CTE.

It would seem that there would be a greater chance of your kid getting hurt in a car accident, or drinking beers, than if they played football....and other such analogies. BOTTOM LINE, there is a lot more that has to be learned before one can make the case that football causes CTE

I hear you. It's the panic and the fear of the disease progressing that is scary.

Like you and your sons I've played physical sports, experienced 100s of pre-concussive hits and with the # of concussions I've had it would not surprise me if I had Stage 1. I know that I don't have Stage 2 but thats besides the point. However, I wonder if when I was 16 if I were to be diagnosed with Stage 1 what my folks would have done. Interesting issue.

 

[patfanken]

Right now it only gets diagnosed if the next of kin chooses to donate the deceased's brain to a lab that can do the test. I doubt that happens very often. Especially outside of NFL players who died recently.

Well that's part of the problem. There's the science limitation to the research, and I understand the problems. But my concern is about the NARRATIVE and how that limited research is being presented. If this thread is any indication, it's pretty clear that most people are comfortable with the idea that football causes CTE.....ANY football. If that's the case here on a site where rabid football fans congregate, then you can see my fears when that narrative gets out to the general public.

It has always been my position that all the concussion talk and fears are framed by the NFL experience. I played ball for 11 years and 2 of those years were limited to TC hits. 85% of people have their football experience end after 4 years of HS. 95% of the rest never play after college. Yet the most damaging evidence is coming from players, like Seau, who played full contact football for 20 years or more. THAT I can see as being risky, but along with the risk is the reward....and an adult choice. However, again I lament the prospect of HS kids not having the opportunity to play a game that was critically important in my development, as my family's, simply because of fears that are baseless for THAT demographic.

Now COULD a kid develop CTE from playing HS football, but I believe it would be less dangerous, than allowing him to drive a car, or be in a car driven by another 16 year old. It would be less risky than the risk to his liver from drinking alcohol. What about eliminating skate boards? If we ever thought about all the possible dangers our kids face, as parents, you'd never let them out of the house.

I have long since over stated my case here. But to summarize, I am no oblivious to potential risks of football, but in my somewhat knowledgeable frame of reference, at the HS level at least, the reward far outweighs the risk.

That being said, I would also state that if it were up to me, I would end contact football for kids below HS age and have them playing flag or tag. But I say that with the disclaimer that I never played before HS, and none of my kids did either.

 

[Hael]

Whats scary about CTE is the frequency with which its diagnosed. 91 out of 95 hits is a ridiculously high number. Now there will be selection effects (nfl players brains that were donated to science are probably those who took their life, or had obvious cognitive problems which leads to the loved one to look for answers), but still...

This is absolutely guaranteed to end football as we know it, and yes even people who only played a little bit of football/boxing should be scared given how universal it seems to be.

 

[Dr Pain]

Perhaps a Sprint Football league where the maximum weight of each player is 172. You end up with a team made up of all guys basically the same size and it is a very fast game. Imagine a team made up of all Edelmens. That would be a good one to watch.

 

[rfh]

Flag football has already begun in elementary schools. I read a big article about it a day or so ago. Numbers of players had been seriously declining in some area because of parents worried. THey introduced flag football and numbers jumped significantly.

As PatFanKen mentioned, it can't be solely due to hits or there would be SO many more cases, maybe even more so in boxing, where guys are hit in the head, without a helmet, by the fists of super strong guys whose sole intention is to short circuit the signals in the brain long enough to cause their opponent to fall down and be unable to get back to their feet, or even temporarily lose consciousness.

Ali is the maybe the earliest and definitely most famous person to show the effects of CTE, or, in his case, dementia pugilistica, a form of CTE, but why aren't there many, many more?

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if, within a decade or so, Congress stepped in and eliminated football entirely. Nobody would want to watch flag football. At least nobody I know, and even flag football needs lineman, who clash violently on every play. There is just no other way to protect, or get to, the QB.

Football has already changed entirely from what it was even a generation ago, but we seriously may be watching/witnessing the end of the sport entirely... or maybe those gigantic helmets that Welker wore will become mandatory to see how they work out before the game is lost to the ages.