Felger and Mazz Draft talk

[Pats0204]

Not sure if anyone else caught this today but Felger and Mazz opened the show talking about Bridgewater and Manziel visiting today and the reasons why that may be. They touched on how the mock drafts by all the "Draft Experts" were all over the place; some having the top QB's going anywhere from #1 overall to not drafted in the 1st round at all.

Felger decided to show how "ALL OVER THE PLACE" these mocks are and referenced Bucky Brooks's mock where he intentionally left out the top QB's It was a "NO QB MOCK". Well, apparently Felger didnt know that and railed on for a couple mins about how nobody really has any idea where these QB's will go given that no QB's were even selected in this mock in round 1.

Anyway, here's the mock he was referencing. I just thought it was kinda funny that he used it to make his point but had no clue that Brooks intentionally left out the QB's:

2014 NFL Mock Drafts : Mock draft 4.0: No quarterbacks selected

 

[everlong]

Not that it would ever happen but no first round QB selections would suck for the Pats.

Second as much as they like to talk like they have the pulse of everything they really don't. Maz the other day made a comment on UConn basketball and Jim Calhoun and I laughed out loud because he's retired and Kevin Ollie is the coach. And I don't even follow college hoops very closely. If you're going to make a strong statement about a team at least get the coach's name right.

 

[Pats0204]

Not that it would ever happen but no first round QB selections would suck for the Pats.

Second as much as they like to talk like they have the pulse of everything they really don't. Maz the other day made a comment on UConn basketball and Jim Calhoun and I laughed out loud because he's retired and Kevin Ollie is the coach. And I don't even follow college hoops very closely. If you're going to make a strong statement about a team at least get the coach's name right.

Exactly my point. They make fun of the draft for most of the year then when they try to talk intelligently about it, one of the first statements they make is completely ignorant.

 

[BobDigital]

Yeah, Felger should have looked at that mock more carefully. However I agree with his theory that the Patriots are looking at top QBs in the draft cause they are planning to draft one soon.

Maybe they will not pull the trigger on a top QB until Brady's time here is over or maybe we will draft one this year but I think from this point on the Patriots would be foolish to not start seriously looking at top QBs to be the new franchise guy.

I don't think we will draft a QB this year. I don't believe in any of these guys. Bortles is my fav and even if he falls I still don't take him cause at best I think he is a middle of the road starter in this league.

However they should at least look to be sure cause it is important.

 

[Gronkandez]

Everyone seems to envision a "Jake Locker scenario" where a the QB's are overdrafted just because of position need. Most seem to agree that the top three guys aren't all that special considering they are mostly projected to go in the top 10.

ps. what the heck is a "no QB's" mock draft?? I can see how Felger fanned on that one.

 

[Gronkandez]

Felger decided to show how "ALL OVER THE PLACE" these mocks are and referenced Bucky Brooks's mock where he intentionally left out the top QB's It was a "NO QB MOCK". Well, apparently Felger didnt know that and railed on for a couple mins about how nobody really has any idea where these QB's will go given that no QB's were even selected in this mock in round 1.

Anyway, here's the mock he was referencing. I just thought it was kinda funny that he used it to make his point but had no clue that Brooks intentionally left out the QB's:
2014 NFL Mock Drafts : Mock draft 4.0: No quarterbacks selected

Upon further review, Bucky Brooks wasn't just excluding QB's in this mock for the heck of it. He's saying it's possible no QB's could be drafted in the first round. That is exactly Felger's point, that these mocks are all over the place and no one really knows where these guys will be selected. The only consensus is these guys all have their flaws.

With the 2014 draft loaded with Pro Bowl-caliber position players and full of question marks at quarterback, I believe we could see more teams pause before selecting a developmental prospect at the top of the draft. Although this would require teams to stick with the premise of taking the best player available, it's an approach that could result in a quarterback failing to come off the board in the first round for the first time since 1996.

Now, I know it's unlikely to happen, but let's take a look at how the draft could shake out if teams avoid reaching for a quarterback at the top of the draft. (Keep in mind that I didn't make any trades in this version of the mock draft.)

 

[patsfaninpa]

Is this the Mike Felger who refuses to take calls about the draft. Yet, finds time to ridicule it by throwing darts at a draft board. Literally, to determine what a crapshoot it is. That's fine. We know nothing is written in stone. But, you can talk intelligently about the draft without being called a db. Something he hasn't figured out.

Felger thinks the cap is crap. Pats trade back too much. Won't spend enough money. BB only good because of Brady. Seriously, and you listen to this guy? Oh, and Mazz is even denser when it comes to football.

 

[LloydBraun]

Feller and Mazz are awful- as is Tanguay. For such a great sports town in such a great era, we are hurting for sports guys on TV and in the papers. I prefer educated, open-minded perspectives, not agenda-driven, Howard Stern wanna-bes.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

As bad as that was, it was way, way better than the Old Felgy. A few years ago I was appalled that during the draft (I think was actually the day of the draft ) he just complained and kvetched for hours about how much he hated the draft and did not want to talk about. Then after the Draft he would be appalled at the high TV ratings of draft coverage. It was unbelievable; the worst draft coverage in the history of radio. A new low for him which is saying a lot.

But that has changed.

Clearly he (and the baseball jock sniffers on WEEI) got a talking to by management who pointed out the ratings and noted that listeners are way more interested in draft talk than endless prattle about who would bat 7'th next season (or some far-fetched signing that would never happen) by the baseball nerds.

Gawd even Lou Merloni was talking draft. Lou is a baseball guy, but at least he is interested and studies and tries to cover football.

 

[Mark Morse]

As bad as that was, it was way, way better than the Old Felgy. A few years ago I was appalled that during the draft (I think was actually the day of the draft ) he just complained and kvetched for hours about how much he hated the draft and did not want to talk about. Then after the Draft he would be appalled at the high TV ratings of draft coverage. It was unbelievable; the worst draft coverage in the history of radio. A new low for him which is saying a lot.

But that has changed.

Clearly he (and the baseball jock sniffers on WEEI) got a talking to by management who pointed out the ratings and noted that listeners are way more interested in draft talk than endless prattle about who would bat 7'th next season (or some far-fetched signing that would never happen) by the baseball nerds.

Gawd even Lou Merloni was talking draft. Lou is a baseball guy, but at least he is interested and studies and tries to cover football.

Yeah but Felgy finally admitted today that he was wrong about Tebow ... it took this long!

 

[Off The Grid]

Feltcher & Spazz are two of the most idiotic @$$es that've ever walked the Earth.

One listens to their sewage at great risk to one's mental health.

 

[AzorianPats]

Is this the Mike Felger who refuses to take calls about the draft. Yet, finds time to ridicule it by throwing darts at a draft board. Literally, to determine what a crapshoot it is. That's fine. We know nothing is written in stone. But, you can talk intelligently about the draft without being called a db. Something he hasn't figured out.

Felger thinks the cap is crap. Pats trade back too much. Won't spend enough money. BB only good because of Brady. Seriously, and you listen to this guy? Oh, and Mazz is even denser when it comes to football.

To be fair, the whole throwing darts on the draft board thing....they nailed 2 years in a row. Dobson last year, and Bequette the year after.

 

[patchick]

I'm fine with curmudgeonly rants, but I do like a smidgen of consistency. "The draft is like throwing darts, and worse yet they always trade down for more picks!" is the football equivalent of " the food is inedible, and the portions are too small!"

 

[Gronkandez]

I love how everyone loves to bash Felger & Mazz but no one points out that they've been consistently dominent in the ratings. Felger can be a contrarian especially when it comes to the Pats, which can be a little annoying at times but I would rather listen to that than to someone who is always praising the team no matter what they do.

This is the most recent ratings article I could find

Sports Hub finishes first, WEEI third in fall Arbitron/Nielsen radio ratings - Touching All the Bases - Boston.com

In afternoon drive (2-6 p.m.), the Sports Hub's "Felger and Massarotti" was also tops for the sixth straight period with an impressive 13.4 share. WEEI's "Salk and Holley" was third (6.0), up from fifth (5.4) in the summer.

 

[everlong]

I'm fine with curmudgeonly rants, but I do like a smidgen of consistency. "The draft is like throwing darts, and worse yet they always trade down for more picks!" is the football equivalent of " the food is inedible, and the portions are too small!"

I've never called into sports radio but if I did it would be to take Felger to task on his draft record and just now inconsistent his thought process is on the subject.

1. The cap is crap myth - A few years ago his example was the Jets and how they had a more talented roster than the Patriots other than the QB and they wouldn't have to pay for it. Then they had to let guys like Fanaca, Woody, Thomas Jones, Brad Smith, Jerricho Cotchery, Jim Leonhard and more recently Dustin Keller and Santonio Holmes walk. Some of those guys were on the back end but were great leaders and it destroyed the fabric of their team. They still haven't recovered. This doesn't quite tie into the draft like it once did but he was always advocating trading into the top 10 back when the salaries were much higher and claiming they could hide the costs.

Most recently he's making the same argument for the Ravens claiming they only went 8-8 on their "rebuild" year. Now Ozzie is a great GM and I have no doubt he'll turn it around but it won't be a one year down turn. Also in 2002, 5 and 7 they had 5, 6 and 7 win seasons. So they've had to reset along the way and got really valuable high draft picks to pick up Suggs, Ngata and Flacco after those down years.

2. Trading back being bad - The Patriots didn't have bad drafts because they traded back. They had bad drafts because they drafted the wrong players. Some of their most disappointing draft picks have been when they kept the pick or traded up. Brace, Dowling, Chung, Maroney, Watson, Wheatley, Butler, Crable and Chad Jackson who was a trade up. Hell even Daniel Graham who was a hell of a player for the Pats wasn't worth a first and third.

3. Residual value - First round pick traded equaled a 4th that became Randy Moss and a first which became Jerod Mayo and another draft pick.......first rounder became a second and a first which became Eugene Wilson and Vince Wilfork......etc

I actually don't mind Felger but this one argument just gets so F'in old.

 

[Gronkandez]

I've never called into sports radio but if I did it would be to take Felger to task on his draft record and just now inconsistent his thought process is on the subject.

1. The cap is crap myth - A few years ago his example was the Jets and how they had a more talented roster than the Patriots other than the QB and they wouldn't have to pay for it. Then they had to let guys like Fanaca, Woody, Thomas Jones, Brad Smith, Jerricho Cotchery, Jim Leonhard and more recently Dustin Keller and Santonio Holmes walk. Some of those guys were on the back end but were great leaders and it destroyed the fabric of their team. They still haven't recovered. This doesn't quite tie into the draft like it once did but he was always advocating trading into the top 10 back when the salaries were much higher and claiming they could hide the costs.

Most recently he's making the same argument for the Ravens claiming they only went 8-8 on their "rebuild" year. Now Ozzie is a great GM and I have no doubt he'll turn it around but it won't be a one year down turn. Also in 2002, 5 and 7 they had 5, 6 and 7 win seasons. So they've had to reset along the way and got really valuable high draft picks to pick up Suggs, Ngata and Flacco after those down years.

2. Trading back being bad - The Patriots didn't have bad drafts because they traded back. They had bad drafts because they drafted the wrong players. Some of their most disappointing draft picks have been when they kept the pick or traded up. Brace, Dowling, Chung, Maroney, Watson, Wheatley, Butler, Crable and Chad Jackson who was a trade up. Hell even Daniel Graham who was a hell of a player for the Pats wasn't worth a first and third.

3. Residual value - First round pick traded equaled a 4th that became Randy Moss and a first which became Jerod Mayo and another draft pick.......first rounder became a second and a first which became Eugene Wilson and Vince Wilfork......etc

I actually don't mind Felger but this one argument just gets so F'in old.

There is a good argument with both strategies. The argument for the Pats trading up is that they almost always nail their first round picks and they've been pretty shaking in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

Personally, I have never been more excited than when the Pats traded up for Chandler Jones and Hightower in the same draft and I had never more pissed than when they selected Tavon Wilson and Jermaine Cunningham among others.

The theory behind the cap-is-crap is that teams can always add more high priced talent. Even if they are up against the cap it's possible. The issue is it puts your team in a bind in future years.

 

[patchick]

The argument for the Pats trading up is that they almost always nail their first round picks and they've been pretty shaking in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

I think you're missing a key causal element here. Presumably they make the first round pick when they're confident in a player as 1st-round value, and trade back when they're not. That alone would make their 1st-round picks stronger. (As would the fact that they're 1st-round picks, of course. Having a higher hit rate in round 1 than 2-3 is a feature, not a bug.)

 

[everlong]

There is a good argument with both strategies. The argument for the Pats trading up is that they almost always nail their first round picks and they've been pretty shaking in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

Personally, I have never been more excited than when the Pats traded up for Chandler Jones and Hightower in the same draft and I had never more pissed than when they selected Tavon Wilson and Jermaine Cunningham among others.

The theory behind the cap-is-crap is that teams can always add more high priced talent. Even if they are up against the cap it's possible. The issue is it puts you're team in a bind in future years.

I wasn't knocking trading up. I was simply calling it a falacy that it always works out.

Right but by Felger's theory they traded down and were left with Wilson and Cunningham.

Eventually you have to pay the piper.

 

[everlong]

I think you're missing a key causal element here. Presumably they make the first round pick when they're confident in a player as 1st-round value, and trade back when they're not. That alone would make their 1st-round picks stronger. (As would the fact that they're 1st-round picks, of course. Having a higher hit rate in round 1 than 2-3 is a feature, not a bug.)

It's a small sample size but trading up in the first would consist of Graham, Warren, Jones and Hightower unless I'm totally brain-locking and missing somebody. Warren was only one spot to ensure the Bears didn't mess around but we'll include it and give it the A+ it's due. For as good as Graham was as a blocker you don't give up a first and a third for a blocking TE. Call it a C only because of how much he brought to those championship teams. Jones and Hightower the jury is still out to a degree but we'll call Jones a B+ and Hightower a C for now. I think both still have upside. I still won't give up on Hightower becoming the rotational DE and LB depth.

 

[Danger Zone]

I love how everyone loves to bash Felger & Mazz but no one points out that they've been consistently dominent in the ratings. Felger can be a contrarian especially when it comes to the Pats, which can be a little annoying at times but I would rather listen to that than to someone who is always praising the team no matter what they do.

This is the most recent ratings article I could find

Sports Hub finishes first, WEEI third in fall Arbitron/Nielsen radio ratings - Touching All the Bases - Boston.com

Who who who who who who praises the Patriots no matter what they do??!!!?!!

Who?

I personally get tired of winning a game and having every sports radio host do their best to bust my feel-good buzz by harping on all the "negatives".

Criticism is a vital and necessary tool for self-awareness and improvement but theres also a time and place to be a fan too.