Fairness being raised over divisional alignment

[upstater1]

Just as an FYI, the NFL and the owners discussed the current playoff and division format less than 5 years ago, and Bob Kraft was one of the people against the current format. He was pushing heavily for a change.

As I recall, he wanted a 7th team added, and if there is discussion of this in the near future, I expect that an additional playoff team will be a part of the discussion rather than a concern about divisions.

 

[lamafist]

Chris Landry was "highly respected" until a few weeks ago also. On a local level, there was a time when Ron Borges was too.

If a person has an axe to grind (i.e., the player complaining), they are far more likely to let anybody and everybody know. There's not one single other media outlet, locally or nationally, running a column with a similar quote from a Pats player. Yet they only talked to one columnist about this perceived slight? And the person they talked to is neither a beat writer that has gained the trust of the players over the course of the season, nor a national network (espn, fox, cbs, nbc) that would get his message out to a larger audience?

One last thing to consider is this: the quotes were all anonymous. So the player(s) knew they shouldn't be saying those things (i.e., 'don't use my name') yet made those comments anyways?

Sorry, but yes, I do have serious doubts as to the authenticty of those comments regardless of Cole's resume.

Two sportswriters have at one time commit plagiarism, so now we can assume that all sportswriters are making stuff up left and right? Talk about reaching. Think about it -- when reporters are caught plagiarizing, like in the situations you mention, it's a big scandal that gets tons of press. Meanwhile, NFL players give anonymous quotes every day of the week.

And yes, even Patriots players do it. A quick googling that took me all of thirty seconds dug up reporter here, here, here, here and here in which Patriots players anonymously dished on subjects from the seriousness of teammates' injuries, the gameplan going into the most recent game, the inadequate character of former teammates, and some trash talk about recent opponents -- all topics that are at least as taboo as what Cole cited a player a saying, and most of them more so.

Sorry, buddy, but Pats players tell tales out of school all the time. They may be more disciplined than most, but it's just absurd to try to use the existence of anonymous quotes as evidence of their having been fabricated.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Two sportswriters have at one time commit plagiarism, so now we can assume that all sportswriters are making stuff up left and right? Talk about reaching. Think about it -- when reporters are caught plagiarizing, like in the situations you mention, it's a big scandal that gets tons of press. Meanwhile, NFL players give anonymous quotes every day of the week.

And yes, even Patriots players do it. A quick googling that took me all of thirty seconds dug up reporter here, here, here, here and here in which Patriots players anonymously dished on subjects from the seriousness of teammates' injuries, the gameplan going into the most recent game, the inadequate character of former teammates, and some trash talk about recent opponents -- all topics that are at least as taboo as what Cole cited a player a saying, and most of them more so.

Sorry, buddy, but Pats players tell tales out of school all the time. They may be more disciplined than most, but it's just absurd to try to use the existence of anonymous quotes as evidence of their having been fabricated.

Here is the problem with the Cole story. If Reese claims to have talked to three different Patriots fans who went off the record with him it is plausible, he spends all day at the stadium.

But Cole doesn't so that means he must have talked to the guys over the phone. I really can't see guys taking this guys phone call to go off the record and trash the system.

 

[lamafist]

Here is the problem with the Cole story. If Reese claims to have talked to three different Patriots fans who went off the record with him it is plausible, he spends all day at the stadium.

But Cole doesn't so that means he must have talked to the guys over the phone. I really can't see guys taking this guys phone call to go off the record and trash the system.

So you think it's more likely that a national sports reporter would risk his career to fabricate quotes to toss in at the back end of a story that gets published in the late afternoon on Christmas Eve? Does that strike you as remotely worth it? To me that seems a LOT more far-fetched than some young player saying a bit more than he should, and then asking the reporter to please not use his name.

I also disagree with the premise that players would be that much more guarded with a national reporter than with a local guy like Reiss. Reiss has dozens of column inches a week to fill up with Pats content. On occasion, he resorted to detailing trivialities like the players' backgammon games when he doesn't have any better material. If a player gives him anything remotely interesting, he'll know for sure that it'll end up on his blog -- and he also knows for sure that everyone in the organization reads Reiss' stuff.

Attention from a national reporter is more flattering, too, and these days, there's nothing remotely unusual about chatting w/ a reporter on your cell while you go about your day. In fact, people often let things slip over the phone that they wouldn't in person.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

So you think it's more likely that a national sports reporter would risk his career to fabricate quotes to toss in at the back end of a story that gets published in the late afternoon on Christmas Eve? .

Risk his career? You mean get fired like Tomasse did? Sued like Tomasse did? Fact is the Patriots are going to do zip to discredit him so he do it with compete immunity.

And every sports blog now has a thread dedicated to his article and the whinny Patriots.

 

[lamafist]

Risk his career? You mean get fired like Tomasse did? Sued like Tomasse did? Fact is the Patriots are going to do zip to discredit him so he do it with compete immunity.

And every sports blog now has a thread dedicated to his article and the whinny Patriots.

It's Tomase, not Tomasse. And earlier, it was Reiss, not Reese. How do you not know how to spell their names if you've been reading their work for years? Or do get all your info on them from WEEI?

Apparently, though, you're in need of FAR more than a spelling lesson. You also need to learn a little bit about journalism, and life in general.

Tomase didn't get fired because he didn't do anything seriously wrong. He didn't fabricate any quotes. He didn't plagiarize anybody. He reported a story, from multiple sources as it turns out, alleging that a team known to have illegally taped opponents in one situation may have done it in another. He went to the Pats for comment, and printed their vague non-denial answers. He reported the incident as "allegations" from a source then "close to the team."

The fact that he needed to apologize in order to salvage enough good will to remain employed, and unmolested, in the Boston area doesn't mean that he'd done anything worth being fired or harassed for. The only thing he did wrong was, fearing getting scooped on a story, to not give the Patriots or league enough time to investigate the claims before printing the allegations. And truth is, that's not even Tomase's job, but rather, his editors'.

Oh, and the reason why Tomase didn't get sued is because a judge would find the notion as juvenile and laughable as I do.

Now, let's take a second to follow the logic of your arguments here-

1) Jason Cole should be suspected of fabricating sources because Borges and Landry commit plagiarism.
2) Jason Cole would not fear repercussions for fabricating sources because Tomase didn't get fired or sued for reporting a story in which he did not fabricate his source.

Never mind that your examples from assertion 1 would act as strong counter-examples in assertion 2, the fact is that neither of your assertions have any logical merit to begin with. All you've done is name-check suspect sportswriters in an attempt to smear Cole by association, just for having the same profession.

Now, do you have any real cause to suspect Cole of fabricating a quote, or are you just going to assume he did, and keep arguing that one can't prove he didn't?

Know what all this reminds me of? The parents of kids in Newton or Brookline who refuse to believe it when their precious little angels get in trouble at school, and talk of suing the school system instead of disciplining their bratty kids.

 

[Deus Irae]

It's Tomase, not Tomasse. And earlier, it was Reiss, not Reese. How do you not know how to spell their names if you've been reading their work for years? Or do get all your info on them from WEEI?

Apparently, though, you're in need of FAR more than a spelling lesson. You also need to learn a little bit about journalism, and life in general.

Tomase didn't get fired because he didn't do anything seriously wrong. He didn't fabricate any quotes. He didn't plagiarize anybody. He reported a story, from multiple sources as it turns out, alleging that a team known to have illegally taped opponents in one situation may have done it in another. He went to the Pats for comment, and printed their vague non-denial answers. He reported the incident as "allegations" from a source then "close to the team."

The fact that he needed to apologize in order to salvage enough good will to remain employed, and unmolested, in the Boston area doesn't mean that he'd done anything worth being fired or harassed for. The only thing he did wrong was, fearing getting scooped on a story, to not give the Patriots or league enough time to investigate the claims before printing the allegations. And truth is, that's not even Tomase's job, but rather, his editors'.

Oh, and the reason why Tomase didn't get sued is because a judge would find the notion as juvenile and laughable as I do.

Now, let's take a second to follow the logic of your arguments here-

1) Jason Cole should be suspected of fabricating sources because Borges and Landry commit plagiarism.
2) Jason Cole would not fear repercussions for fabricating sources because Tomase didn't get fired or sued for reporting a story in which he did not fabricate his source.

Never mind that your examples from assertion 1 would act as strong counter-examples in assertion 2, the fact is that neither of your assertions have any logical merit to begin with. All you've done is name-check suspect sportswriters in an attempt to smear Cole by association, just for having the same profession.

Now, do you have any real cause to suspect Cole of fabricating a quote, or are you just going to assume he did, and keep arguing that one can't prove he didn't?

Know what all this reminds me of? The parents of kids in Newton or Brookline who refuse to believe it when their precious little angels get in trouble at school, and talk of suing the school system instead of disciplining their bratty kids.

Dumbasse didn't get sued because of the nature of libel law in this country, and the apology that followed the incident:

Patriots lawsuit against Herald appears unlikely - The Boston Globe