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Draft Mock Fails - Patriot Picks

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by mgteich, Feb 16, 2011.

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  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There are lots of mocks out there (huddle has links to over 60).

    I fail any mock that

    1) has no DE or OLB (FOR THE PATRIOTS) in the first 2 rounds,
    2) has no OL(FOR THE PATRIOTS) in the first 2 rounds,
    3) has a WR (FOR THE PATRIOTS) not named Jones in the first 2 rounds, or
    4) has a QB (FOR THE PATRIOTS) in the first 2 round.
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2011
  2. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Draft Mock Fail

    Have the Pats taking Ingram at #17........................
  3. jeffbiologist

    jeffbiologist Rookie

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    Re: Draft Mock Fail

    I think he assumed that those picks would be for the pats. I concur.
  4. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    Re: Draft Mock Fail

    Ah...I get it.

    I wouldn't bust a mock for a failure to get a specific position in a certain round, depending on where the pick went instead (and we're assuming the Pats make four picks). I wouldn't be stunned to see Belichick ignore OL in the first two rounds if he goes DE, OLB, DE, CB, for example, or trade, DE, trade, S.
  5. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Rookie

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    Re: Draft Mock Fail

    I doubt we are getting a wr named Jones, but I would be more than happy with a wr named Hankerson between 33 and 60.
  6. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Rookie

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    Re: Draft Mock Fail

    I keep playing out those scenarios. No OLB or DE in first 2 rounds, or NO O-line in the first 2 rounds. Very unlikely but not out of the realm of possibility considering drafts in the past. Would say I would be a tad dissapointed if atleast 1 OLB/DE and 1 OT/G werent taken in the first 2 rounds. If he goes with a RB or WR I would not be dissapointed either.

    It takes a lot of screwing up to get a fail from me I guess.
  7. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    Re: Draft Mock Fail

    Where's the value when it's time to pick? I think that you can always justify picking a cornerback if he's the best value on the board. Same with OT. I do, however, think there will be good values at DE especially when we pick in the first two rounds.
  8. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Rookie

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    Re: Draft Mock Fail

    Yeah, there will be probably one of Wilkerson or Heyward there at 28 or 33. If you want to go back farther there is value there too.
  9. CTHuskies

    CTHuskies Rookie

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    Re: Draft Mock Fail



    So you could live with something like this? [=points]

    Trade down from #17 [950] to #25 [720] plus #82 [180] & #114 [66], trade #28 [660] for 2012 1st & 3rd , trade #60 [300] for 2012 2nd & 4th and trade #156 [29] 4th round pick in 2012

    #25 - Muhammad Wilkerson DE Temple
    #33 –Jason Pinkston G Pittsburgh
    #74 – Brooks Reed LB Arizona
    #82 – John Moffit C Wisconsin
    #92 – K.J. Wright OLB Mississippi State
    #114 – Delone Carter RB Syracuse
    #124 – DeMarcus Love T Arkansas
    #184 - Lazarius Levingston DE LSU
    6-C - Jamie Harper RB Clemson
    7-C - Steven Friday OLB Virginia Tech
  10. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Draft Mock Fail

    I did not mean to list all the ways a draft would fail. I just listed two my personal pre-conditions to considering any mock.

    The mock listed does not fail any of the conditions I listed, so I would consider it on its merits. I don't like it at all because it trades our of the top 60 in a shallow draft. I would rather be trading into the top 60 that out of it. You start with 4 picks in the top 60 and end up with only two players, not a good result for me.

    FOR EXAMPLE
    I would take your 74 and 92 and trade for #55
    I would keep the #28

    So, I would still get Wilkerson, Pinkston, Moffitt

    HOWEVER, instead of Reed and Wright, I would a top OT at 28 plus a higher rated OLB at 55, say Carimi and Beal.

  11. CanadianPat'sFan

    CanadianPat'sFan Rookie

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    Re: Draft Mock Fail

    I like Jonathan Baldwin in that range myself but Hankerson is going to be a good pro as well. I like Baldwins unique size which Brady did like with Moss when he went down field in 2007 and parts of 2009. I see more of a want to catch the ball from Baldwin then I saw in Moss through 2009 and 2010.

    Now this kid is a first round talent who will slip to the second round because of all the character concerns. On tape I like this kid as a complement to what we have in our WR core and being surrounded by the right people in NE those character concerns might be managed. Jones I think will be too expensive for where I rank our concerns but would be a heck of a player for us.
  12. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Rookie

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    Re: Draft Mock Fail

    www.jonbaldwin82.com/xml/site_text.xml

    Looks good on film but so do a lot of players. Height is where the comparisons end to Randy Moss. Moss ran high 4.2 low 4.3 and his hands were like mitts. Not even close. I doubt Baldwin runs in the 4.4s. He may not translate to the nfl because he can't create seperation from himself and the player covering him. Yeah he is tall and can get the jump balls but you better come down with them or there are going to be occasional interceptions we can't afford.

    Personally, if we are going to go WR I'd like to go Leonard Hankerson out of Miami. He has worked his butt off to get better and it has translated to the field. He doesn't even have to think about creating seperation. He naturally does it. 6-3 205 and physical. Just watch the senior bowl and practices. He was a man among boys.
  13. MaineMan

    MaineMan Rookie

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    Re: Draft Mock Fail

    Hankerson also has pretty good mitts at 10 5/8".

    There was a kid at the Shrine Game out of FAU - Lestar Jean, 6030/211, 4.49/40 who seemed promising. Tall, fairly speedy, decent burst, physical and fairly quick off the line, fights for the ball in traffic, good body control/adjustment even on low throws. Needs to tighten up his routes. Hands are only 8.75" though and did drop a few. Outshined Terrance Tolliver, though (maybe that's not saying much?)

    OTOH (heh), he'd probably be available somewhere around the middle of the 7th.
  14. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Rookie

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    Re: Draft Mock Fail

    I wish I had some kind of clue of how good Price is going to be as far as a deep threat. Really puts the dampers on taking Hankerson in the second round not knowing.
  15. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    Re: Draft Mock Fail

    I think Hankerson will turn out to be a very good one. If we can get him in round 2, that's good value imo.
  16. MaineMan

    MaineMan Rookie

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    Re: Draft Mock Fail

    I guess what I want to see out of Price, or any Pats receiver, is the ability to run pretty much every route with the same consistent effectiveness, not just deep, not just the seam, not just over the middle. The thing, for me, that sets Branch apart, for instance, is that he's really good at the 10-20 yard out, the back-shoulder snag while falling OB. But he can also go over the middle, run the seam and, on occasion, get deep down the sideline.

    That's the thing I like about the Packers receivers, or even the Steelers'. A guy like Jennings, for instance, may not excel at any one type of route, but he can pop open almost anywhere on the field anytime, no matter where he lines up. Kinda the same with James Jones or Emmanuel Sanders or Antonio Brown.

    I think that's the really little bit the Pats passing attack was missing this season, even more than a Moss-type deep threat - generalist pass catchers who can make more guesswork for coverages. Maybe Price is that guy, maybe not. But, if we get a new guy, I'd really like him to be somebody who can do a lot more than just get deep - because that's really just as predictable as Welker's routes or Hernandez' routes or Gronkowski's or Edelman's.
  17. CanadianPat'sFan

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    Re: Draft Mock Fail

    Sorry the link did not work for me.

    I was not comparing Randy Moss of 1997 to Baldwin it was the 2007 version of Moss that I was making reference to. I doubt Moss is running sub 4.4 at his age but Brady has an accurate deep pass which was showcased with Moss. I rarely see Baldwin lose a jump ball, catches the ball at its apex and has good hands. He has great body control in the air and at his height makes him a red zone threat to go with Gronk.

    He has not had much for QB at Pitt but I am sure Brady could get this kid the ball. After the catch this kid is better then moss and has an extra 20 lbs. I just think that Jones will be taken before 28 and other then Hankerson I think Baldwin will be a great player in the NFL at our #60 spot if either are still on the board.
  18. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Draft Mock Fail

    Take out #3, and you're on to something.
  19. Hercules Rockefeller

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    Re: Draft Mock Fail

    Gotta disagree here. A draft that has no quarterback go in the first 64 picks is literally unheard of. If this is a take that no quarterback SHOULD go in the first 64, then that is a solid, reasonable opinion that can be argued. If this is a take that a mock draft is a fail for projecting a quarterback to go in the top 64, that is simply not backed by any sort of data.
  20. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I changed the title, and edited the original post. This is a sub-board about the patriot draft. I thought it was clear that I was talking about patriot picks.

    I fail any mock that

    1) has no DE or OLB (FOR THE PATRIOTS) in the first 2 rounds,
    2) has no OL (FOR THE PATRIOTS) in the first 2 rounds,
    3) has a WR not named Jones (FOR THE PATRIOTS) in the first 2 rounds, or
    4) has a QB (FOR THE PATRIOTS) in the first 2 rounds.
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2011
  21. Hercules Rockefeller

    Hercules Rockefeller Rookie

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    Ahh, of course, now that I read that I feel kinda stupid for not figuring that one out on my own!

    I totally agree with you on that with regard to QB, and I can't tell you how much I love Julio Jones too. He really reminds me of Michael Irvin with his size, tenacity, etc. He should be given consideration with that 17th pick, need or not.
  22. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    OK, let me test your resolve. Here's a scenario that seems realistic at this point but breaks a couple of your rules. Is it an automatic fail?

    1a. Anthony Costanzo, OT
    1b. Muhammad Wilkerson
    2a. Danny Watkins, OG
    2b. Leonard Hankerson, WR
    3a. Jeremy Beal, OLB
    3b. Ras-I Dowling, FS
    4. Brooks Reed, OLB
  23. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    Seems to me that you've only run afoul of the WR rule...which is probably the flimsiest.
  24. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Ah...I just realized that rule #1 is ambiguous. I interpreted it as required a DE and OLB in the first 2 rounds, but it could mean or, I guess.
  25. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes, I would fail a draft that drafts a wide receiver in the second and is forced to make up for the error by finding and OLB and S later (and give up on a center).

    As was said, the WR requirement is the weakest rule since we need a WR. However, we need an OLB, FS and even OC more.

    Finally, yes, my personal requirement is that we add one front seven player in the first two rounds. I could certainly see us passing the DL or OLB, just not on both.
    =================
    Obviously, you choices are a fine set of players. I think that Beal might not be there at 74. I might choose him at 60 or I might choose a center like Moffitt.

    Last edited: Feb 19, 2011
  26. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wow...so 2 OL in the first 3 picks isn't enough? After putting that kind of weight on the line early on, I figured I'd wait for a late-round center. I'm not convinced there will be a big difference between a 4th and 6th round C prospect in this draft.

    As for OLB and S, who would you have taken at #60 who would have been better than Beal, Dowling & Reed? I see a big gap in the OLB talent in round 2.
  27. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    1a. Anthony Costanzo, OT
    1b. Muhammad Wilkerson
    2a. Danny Watkins, OG
    2b. John Moffit OG/C
    3a. Jeremy Beal, OLB
    3b. Ras-I Dowling, FS
    4. Brooks Reed, OLB

    Why is three so many? We need to rebuild the OL.

    LT Vollmer, Ojinnaka
    LG Connolly,Watkins
    C Koppen, ????
    RG Neal
    RT Kaczur, Costonzo

    I have BOTH the injured players coming back. Perhaps someone like Moffitt is no better than Wendell.

    BOTTOM LINE
    I probably would have take Beal at 60 and traded 74 into 2012.

    Last edited: Feb 18, 2011
  28. Sciz

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    A lot of people see Reed as a borderline 1st round pick, and Beal isn't going to solve any problems. OLB is a bigger need than backup OL.
  29. Deus Irae

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    I'm still trying to figure out why drafting a WR besides Jones in the first two rounds would automatically be a draft fail. It seems to me that someone like Young, for example, would be a perfectly valid selection.
  30. MaineMan

    MaineMan Rookie

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    I'm beginning to feel that - outside of Green, Jones and "Braylon" Hankerson - there's going to be a lot of disagreement about the value of the WRs in this draft. Bunting has suggested that Titus Young may end up being overdrafted in the mid-late first.
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