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Do you need a great QB to win the SB?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by ivanvamp, Jan 19, 2010.

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  1. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp Rookie

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    Consider the champs in the 2000's....

    2000 Ravens
    QB - Trent Dilfer: 11 g, 59.3%, 1502 yds, 12 td, 11 int, 76.6 rating
    QB - Tony Banks: 11 g, 54.7%, 1578 yds, 8 td, 8 int, 69.3 rating

    2001 Patriots
    QB - Tom Brady: 15 g, 63.9%, 2843 yds, 18 td, 12 int, 86.5 rating

    2002 Buccaneers
    QB - Brad Johnson: 13 g, 62.3%, 3049 yds, 22 td, 6 int, 92.9 rating

    2003 Patriots
    QB - Tom Brady: 16 g, 60.2%, 3620 yds, 23 td, 12 int, 85.9 rating

    2004 Patriots
    QB - Tom Brady: 16 g, 60.8%, 3692 yds, 28 td, 14 int, 92.6 rating

    2005 Steelers
    QB - Ben Roethlisberger: 12 g, 62.7%, 2385 yds, 17 td, 9 int, 98.6 rating

    2006 Colts
    QB - Peyton Manning: 16 g, 65.0%, 4397 yds, 31 td, 9 int, 101.0 rating

    2007 Giants
    QB - Eli Manning: 16 g, 56.1%, 3336 yds, 23 td, 20 int, 73.9 rating

    2008 Steelers
    QB - Ben Roethlisberger: 16 g, 59.9%, 3301 yds, 17 td, 15 int, 80.1 rating

    Out of this group, the guys I would consider to be "great" quarterbacks would be 2004 Tom Brady, 2006 Peyton Manning, and possibly 2008 Ben Roethlisberger (despite very pedestrian numbers).

    2001 and 2003 Tom Brady weren't "great" yet...they were good, and 2003 Brady was emerging as "great", but I don't think he was quite there yet. Though maybe 2003 was when he became "great". But the rest?

    Eli Manning? Hardly "great". Trent Dilfer? Brad Johnson? The first year of Roethlisberger and Brady?

    Even Peyton Manning, who by all definitions was "great" by 2006, didn't have a very good postseason. Here were his combined stats for that year's 4-game playoff run: 97-153 (63.4%), 1034 yds, 3 td, 7 int. Good completion %, but an awful td/int ratio.

    So I think it's clear that you don't need a "great" QB to win the Super Bowl. You need to have a very good *team* that's playing well and that catches a few breaks. I'm not suggesting having a great QB is a liability, but obviously it's not necessary to winning the whole thing.
  2. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    Don't need a great Qb to win the Sb. Need a qb who makes plays when plays need to be made, gets 1st downs, leads the team and doesn't turn the ball over.

    I am convinced of this.
  3. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp Rookie

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    That's pretty much exactly what Brady was in 2001 and 2003. That turned out alright.
  4. patsinthesnow

    patsinthesnow PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    You need a great QB to get a divisional bye.

    You need a great team to win the superbowl.
  5. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    Totally. Look at the history..
    66-Starr
    67-Starr
    68-Namath
    69-Dawson
    70-Johnny U
    71-Meridith/Staubach
    72-Griese
    73-Griese
    74-Bradshaw
    75-Bradshaw
    76-Stabler
    77-Staubach
    78-Bradshaw
    79-Bradshaw
    80-Plunkett
    81-Montana
    82-Theisman
    83-Plunkett
    84-Montana
    85-McMachmon
    86-Simms
    87-Williams
    88-Montana
    89-Montana
    90-Hostedtler
    91-Rypien
    92-Aikman
    93-Aikman
    94-Young
    95-Aikman
    96-Favre
    97-Elway
    98-Elway
    99-Warner

    Many of those QBs are HoF QBs, but I would not say that they were the sole reason that their teams won the SB. They may have been a big piece for sure, but many of them had very good defenses that at the very least, kept games in reach.

    Some of them like Johnny U and Elway were past their primes, but made plays when plays needed to be made.
  6. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    I object to the idea that Brady wasn't an elite QB by 2003 - when he was asked to air it out, he always delivered. Weather & a balanced offense kept him from putting up the #s he ultimately would from there on out.

    And really, he was the same guy in 2001. He won us the snow game & the super bowl with his clutch play. Whether he was elite or not, I don't know. But the quarterback helped us win those games. And I think you do need a quarterback to play well to win.

    Basically, forget stats - just use the eyeball test. Brady, Roethlisberger & [Peyton] Manning are all great QBs. And they've won 6 out of 9 championships this decade. So I don't think your conclusion could be any further from the truth.
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2010
  7. emoney_33

    emoney_33 Rookie

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    You don't -need- any single one thing. You need some combination of many things as well as a little bit of luck to win a championship. Having a great QB helps but isn't the be-all end-all story of winning in the NFL. There is a LOT that goes into winning in the NFL.
  8. T_Brady12

    T_Brady12 Rookie

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    Take a step further and do both starting quarterbacks:

    (Winners on left, losers on right)

    I. Bart Starr vs Len Dawson
    II. Bart Starr vs Daryle Lamonica
    III. Joe Namath vs Earl Morrall
    IV. Len Dawson vs Joe Kapp
    V. Johnny Unitas vs Craig Morton
    VI. Roger Staubach vs Bob Griese
    VII. Bob Griese vs Bill Kilmer
    VIII. Bob Griese vs Fran Tarkenton
    IX. Terry Bradshaw vs Fran Tarkenton
    X. Terry Bradshaw vs Roger Staubach
    XI. Ken Stabler vs Fran Tarkenton
    XII. Roger Staubach vs Craig Morton
    XIII. Terry Bradshaw vs Roger Staubach
    XIV. Terry Bradshaw vs Vince Ferragamo
    XV. Jim Plunkett vs Rob Jaworski
    XVI. Joe Montana vs Ken Anderson
    XVII. Joe Theismann vs David Woodley
    XVIII. Jim Plunkett vs Joe Theismann
    XIX. Joe Montana vs Dan Marino
    XX. Jim McMahon vs Tony Eason
    XXI. Phil Simms vs John Elway
    XXII. Doug Williams vs John Elway
    XXIII. Joe Montana vs Boomer Esiason
    XXIV. Joe Montana vs John Elway
    XXV. Jeff Hostetler vs Jim Kelly
    XXVI. Mark Rypien vs Jim Kelly
    XXVII. Troy Aikman vs Jim Kelly
    XXVIII. Troy Aikman vs Jim Kelly
    XXIX. Steve Young vs Stan Humphries
    XXX. Troy Aikman vs Neil O'Donnell
    XXXI. Brett Favre vs Drew Bledsoe
    XXXII. John Elway vs Brett Favre
    XXXIII. John Elway vs Chris Chandler
    XXXIV. Kurt Warner vs Steve McNair
    XXXV. Trent Dilfer vs Kerry Collins
    XXXVI. Tom Brady vs Kurt Warner
    XXXVII. Brad Johnson vs Rich Gannon
    XXXVIII. Tom Brady vs Jake Delhomme
    XXXVIX. Tom Brady vs Donovan McNabb
    XL. Ben Roethlisberger vs Matt Hasselbeck
    XLI. Peyton Manning vs Rex Grossman
    XLII. Eli Manning vs Tom Brady
    XLIII. Ben Roethlisberger vs Kurt Warner

    In the grand scheme of things, for the most part... yes, a great Quarterback will win the Super Bowl. Of course there are the exceptions (Grossman among others) where you have a solid defense or what not.

    14 of the 23 current PFHOF QB's have participated in the Super Bowl, 10 of them have won the Super Bowl.
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2010
  9. SyN65

    SyN65 Rookie

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    No. Of course not. You need a great TEAM to win a SB.
  10. dhamz

    dhamz Rookie

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    I don't think you need a franchise QB to win a SB but it helps a lot. The Head Coaches/GMs of NE, Indy, Pit, and the NYG all would tell you that their guy is a franchise QB. That accounts for 7 of the 9 this decade including the last 6.
  11. Scouse Patriot

    Scouse Patriot Rookie

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    You definately need a good one. The SB is the pinnacle and aside from skills you need a guy who is mentaly going to cope with that aswell as lead the offence.

    I'm sure nobody needs to be told you need alot more than one player and the offensive unit in football though.
  12. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Rookie

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    You don't need a great quarterback to win a superbowl.

    You do need a great quarterback to win a few superbowls.
  13. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    Hmmm. Not sure if I agree or disagree.

    2SBs
    -Starr
    -Griese
    -Plunkett
    -Staubach
    -Roethisberger

    3SB
    -Brady
    -Aikman

    4SBs
    -Bradshaw
    -Montana

    Not sure I'd call Plunkett, Griese, Roethlisberger, Aikman or even Bradshaw great. But I've always been one to say that you need to look beyond the stats with Bradshaw to appreciate his game and what he meant to the Steelers. Same with Griese and Aikman.
  14. Simkin

    Simkin Banned

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    Peyton Manning, the GOAT, the boy that pee Channel N 5 turn the ball over 9 times in his SB year. And still the MVP of this year. Its hilarious
  15. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    95% of the time, yes.

    The other 5% of the time, the less than great QB still has to not only manage games well, but make plays that can turn games around (Dilfer 90 yard TD in 2000 against Oakland in a defensive struggle, Brad Johnson made some big plays in the 2002 NFCC @ Philly after Philly got up 7 early). QB is the most crucial position no matter how good your team is.
  16. MassPats38

    MassPats38 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If your D is a world-beater that can score points, not as much. The 2006 Bears were a great example of a world-beater defense that could not offset the effect of Grossman and the inept offense. The 2000 Ravens offense was sufficiently competent that the D could win the games without much offense. As noted above, in the end championships are won by teams, not offenses, so it depends on whether offense, defense, and special teams combined produce a strong positive.

    In the salary cap era, world-beater defenses are probably tough to come by, so I suspect a stronger QB is required to offset defensive performances closer to average.
  17. TarHeelPatsFan

    TarHeelPatsFan Rookie

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    Ben Roethlisberger a great quarterback, bleh :(.
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