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Dilfer: Patriots' offense 'exposed' last year

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by HEY BRO! WHAT UP?, May 27, 2010.

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  1. HEY BRO! WHAT UP?

    HEY BRO! WHAT UP? Banned

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    Don't worry, what Dilfer says really isn't all that negative, but believes the spread doesn't work in the NFL.

    Dilfer also goes out on a limb and says Hernandez is his
    Dilfer: Patriots' offense 'exposed' last year - AFC East Blog - ESPN
    Last edited: May 27, 2010
  2. JSn

    JSn Rookie

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    Re: Diler: Patriots' offense 'exposed' last year

    Just hit edit and then look for another edit button. That will let you fix it.

    Belichick has been saying the same thing about the spread, I think. Saying he thinks that's petering out.
  3. HEY BRO! WHAT UP?

    HEY BRO! WHAT UP? Banned

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    Re: Diler: Patriots' offense 'exposed' last year

    Thanks for the tip! Fixed it.
  4. Rexorcism

    Rexorcism Banned

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    Dont worry Pat's fans I heard Dilfer's 3rd cousisn by marriage worked as a beer vendor during Jets games so we know he is just making this up to screw over the Pats.





    On a serious note if the Pats remember to use TEs this year it could be dangerous.
  5. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    I think he's vocalizing what a lot of us were seeing last year. I know I'm not alone out here when I got to the point of screaming at the TV watching Brady set up in the Shotgun 3 plays in a row and watching defenses pin their ears back on him.
  6. Nathan

    Nathan Rookie

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    I agree with Dilfer. The spread is also next to useless in the red zone when there's no field to spread.
  7. Boston Boxer

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    if the TEs can catch the ball, they will be used.
  8. cstjohn17

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    Dilfer is a very good analyst, based on his analysis we can expect more of a running attack as well. I wonder if any of the iron men the Pats have at RB can last a full season.
  9. KontradictioN

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    First off, well played on your first sentence. On your second sentence, it's pretty well known that Bill O'Brien (our acting OC) has made it clear that he wants to use the TE's in our offense in more of a pass catching capacity. That's why you've seen the moves we've made at the position. We got Crumpler for his blocking capacity, Gronk can block and catch the ball well, and Hernandez is a pure receiving threat. Hernandez isn't just a TE though. He'll line up in the slot as well.
  10. captain stone

    captain stone Rookie

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    You're right - you're not alone. I esp. get mega-pissed whenever I see the empty-backfield shotgun spread w/ minimum protection used in short-yardage situations. Abso-effin-lutely retarded.
  11. the wrothbroughterer

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    I was banging the "too predictable" drum to my friends all season long and that seems related to what Dilfer was arguing. I think the spread works, and will continue to work, but running 4 or 5 WRs inside the 10 is guaranteed to end poorly when its your only weapon. They didn't have the personnel to run anything that wasn't a heavy formation. With some bigger receivers in the mix now things should be very different.
    Last edited: May 28, 2010
  12. DarrylS

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    Have not understood for a while why our TE's have not been as involved in our Offense.... would like to think that this years additions have changed all of this.
  13. JoeShmoe

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    This is why a lot of people got frustrated last year because running the spread out of the gun 60-70% of the time, teams could double Moss, have the saftety spy/cover welker and know full well the rest of what we had was garbage (aiken, stanback, watson etc)

    Which is why I never understood why we didnt more creative and use the RB's more in the passing game, or throw to Watson more than we did (he was never THAT bad). Go back and look at the post game threads last year and we were all screaming for variety

    Hopefully now with at least 3 guys vying for a shot at being a decent 3rd and 4th WR, and with the 3 new TE's O'Brien and Brady can get creative. We can still use the gun (esp if Tate/Price come good) but lets make it part of a balanced offense
    Last edited: May 28, 2010
  14. WelshPat

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    Top 5 offenses in terms of yards per game: Texans, Colts, Saints, Patriots, Chargers.

    They were all shotgun based teams.

    Green Bay at 7, mostly spread. Arizona at 12. Denver at 13, same offense as ours, pretty much.

    Not doing bad for something that doesn't work, hey guys?
  15. WelshPat

    WelshPat Rookie

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    I don't remember a lot of empty backfield last year. I don't think we've been empty much since 06
  16. lillestroom

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    So what the f*** was David Thomas if not a ball catching TE???
  17. RodThePat

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    Always injured. Hard to catch a pass when you can't get on the field.
  18. Bostonian1962

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    You bring up the best point of all, that being the "too predictable" angle. I can't tell you how many times last year, I'd say to a buddy before a play, "the Patriots are going to run such and such", and they did exactly that. It was easy.

    Moreover, you hear Ray Lewis saying he knew every Patriot play before they ran it, and there is a big problem there. Will they change things up? It's hard to be successful, when the teams know what you're doing before the play.

    I hear people talk about how Brady knows the offense inside and out because he's been running it for close to a decade, but there is an obvious downside to that. Nuff said.
  19. stcjones

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    I think he is pretty much dead on in his analysis here...one of the biggest weaknesses if the pats offense the past few years has been the inability to make ADJUSTMENTS appropriately when things are not working (ie the Kevin faulk draw up the middle that everyone saw coming)....and he is right also about the disappearance of the tight ends in the pats offense. I still contend that if we had utilized our TE's to help hold off the gints pass rush and bail out our weak OL....We might have a fourth SB ring...we need to use our TE's more effectively.....and get creative....and here's what solder neglected to say....a lot of things could be remedied if we had a seasoned vet OC........instead of another intern.....
  20. upstater1

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    I was not a fan of the spread last year, but I acknowledge the personnel wasn't right either.

    That being said, if they stop using it 70% of the time, it might be more effective.

    Expect more balance.

    I will say also that the Patriots, especially Kevin Faulk, ripped off some nice running yards out of the spread.

    Someone should check to see how much ground yardage was gained running out of the spread instead of run formations.
  21. tombonneau

    tombonneau Rookie

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    I'd be curious to see how much those top teams used the shotgun in the red zone. You always knew when the pats were going to score a td inside the ten last year: if they started off running it usually ended well; if it started in shotgun with five wide, warm up the Ghost.
  22. Deus Irae

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    But people only remember the 2 times in a game where they sort of made a call correct. "Draw" is all they need to claim in order to be sure that they knew exactly what was coming. You'll notice that these people aren't making claims like "3 wideouts, 1 TE, 1 RB, RG pulls left, delayed draw to Faulk on the left side with the slot receiver banging down on the linebacker".

    What's predictable is not the play being run, but the complaining about the playcalling being too predictable. Weiss was too predictable. McDaniels was too predictable. O'Brien is too predictable. And so on, and so on....

    Of course, even pointing that out assumes that predictability is a bad thing, when that's not necessarily the case.
  23. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    BRAVO - Trent Dilfor - He hit the nail on the head. I know its hard to complain about an offense that ranked in the top 10 in just about every catagory. IIRC we even had the 11th best rushing numbers. But the fact we only scored 21 points in 2 of the last 6 games is a telling number.

    The fact is that like most things in football, the more you see an offense or defense the better you are able to find ways to defend/attack it. The spread has had a great 3 year run, but in those key moments where the game hinges on making a particular play, too often lately we have seen we have seen the offense fail.

    That being said, I feel the same way about the Jets #1 rated defense. Those Jet fans who automatically think that they will see the same results just because it worked so well last season will have FAILED to learn from history. The best example of this are the 85 Bears, who went from a record breaking D in 85 to out of the playoffs just TWO years laters. Teams caught up with the so called 4-6

    Teams have now had a full off season to break down the schemes and tendencies of Ryan's D. And while I think it will still be one of the best D's in the league, Jet fans will find that at those key moments of the game, offenses will be a bit more effective than last season....and by 2011 (if there is a 2011) the cycle will start to turn, just like it has will the spread.

    JMHO
    Last edited: May 28, 2010
  24. PatsWickedPissah

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    That's the key. The fatal flaw in the spread is that it's unreliable for success in those situations. Sure theres the potantial for a big gain but what you want is the most reliable occurance of a 1st down in those critical situations.

    The same goes for our defense, MIA in critical situations since 2006. I'm hoping that the re-built D youth movement will have matured sufficiently for 2010.
  25. Nathan

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    if they started off running it usually ended well

    except when it ended with Maroney fumbling the ball at the 1
  26. captain stone

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    Thank you, PFK & others who understand that the shotgun-based spread offense, and the minimal protection for one of football's most immobile QBs contained therein, when used more than 50% of the time is the offensive version of the prevent defense.

    The losses to the Jesters, Donkeys & Doofins were the direct result of the inability of the offense to score TDs instead of FGs and to gain game-clinching 1st downs. One of the primary reasons for those inabilities? The over-reliance on the spread offense, and the neglect of the short-passing & smash-mouth offenses that are crucial for teams to score TDs & 1st downs, esp. in the RZ, and also esp. for teams who play outside & in the Northeast.
  27. Deus Irae

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    The Patriots were 8th in the league in 3rd down conversions in 2009. They were 7th in 2008, 2nd in 2007, 7th in 2006 and 8th in 2005.
  28. Deus Irae

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    The losses to the Jets and Dolphins were the direct result of Brady stinking out the joint. Trying to blame it on the offensive scheme is just ridiculous. The loss to the Broncos was a joint effort, with both sides of the ball failing to get the job done.

    None of those losses were a result of the spread offense.
  29. PatsWickedPissah

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    Seems like many of the 3rd down failures must have happened in the dreaded Red Zone where the critical difference was between 3 and 7 points.
  30. Deus Irae

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    I'm not saying you're wrong, but it's not because of the spread offense, although that may not be optimal inside the 20 when your key receiver is a smaller receiver like Welker. It's because the players didn't get the job done. Here's a piece on 2008, for an example, showing that the team fared quite well even under Cassel:

    Finding the Winning Factors - Red Zone Efficiency - Stampede Blue

    Here's the final data on 2009:

    Seattle Post-Intelligencer: NFL/Football

    So the Patriots were in the middle of the pack in TD percentage, and tied for 5th in overall TDs inside the 20, despite Brady's struggles (remember that first Jets game with the missed pass to Edelman, for an example), the lack of a WR3 worth a damn, the absence of Welker for a couple of games, and the notorious Maroney fumbling. Don't get caught up in the notion that it's all about the scheme. It's about players and execution. Or, to put it another way....

    Mike Vrabel might have been missed nearly as much for his tight end play near the goal line as for his OLB play last year.
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