Denver's TJ Ward a man of his word, goes low on 87 again

[Joker]

He tackles logically. I wouldn't take Gronk around the waist at 200lbs. That's suicide. We have seen guys wrap Gronk around the legs and be dragged for five yards!!

I watched a lot of condensed games from this week and people go low all the time. Ward was as much a danger to himself...that's a neck breaker in every sense of the word the way he went in...and he does that quite a lot FYI. He's not a great form tackler..but there are plenty like it. Watch every game condensed and count the number of times someone chops a guys legs out from underneath him because of a size mismatch. Most games you need two hands.

You'd also need a couple to count the number of cut blocks that occur. They are equally as dangerous to a D Lineman as a low hit on a bigger player but it is legal and a widely taught technique.

It was dangerous to both him and Gronk but I don't think he is going out to injure. He's going out to get the man down and in as quick and efficient way as possible. For someone of his size going against a 270lb Gronk, logically you would aim fo the legs.

Coaches absolutely coach their players to take the legs out from under a player. It isn't with intent to injure. It's called playing smart. If you were a 200lb safety and had Gronk coming at you, you'd be stupid to go gny higher than the thigh and, with the speed this game is played at, you just get as low as you can as quickly as you can.

Plenty of Pats players go low. People are just to naive to see it.



That's not even funny.

Wishing injury on someone is pathetic and classless. I don't know you, but that provides me with a pretty good summary of what kind of person you are.

I've been reading your posts for a few years on this board and I must say I'm a bit confused. You CLAIM to be a Patriots fan but every post you ever make is made in a mocking, condescending, dismissive tone. I assume you deliberately use UK Pats as a login so people will make THAT distinction that you are from the United Kingdom. I find this odd also, in that I have never even entertained the thought of using USA Joker on any board I frequent in cyberspace.

Let's drop the TK Ward discussion and go straight to the heart of this matter...you appear at infrequent intervals always using the same type of language directed at Patriots fans on this site...let me quote you..."pathetic", "classless", "naive"...and to top off this snark, you make a sweeping judgement based on a fan's emotional response that summarizes who HE is in real life.
"I don't know you, but that provides me with a pretty good summary of what kind of person you are."

If you cannot fathom why a young Patriot fan would emotionally react to another player taking a hit on Gronk's knee, already ravaged by a Pollard low hit and again by Ward last season, then you are either woefully naive to the basic NFL fan mindset OR you are a direct descendent of Lt. Colonel Banastre Tarleton. I would prefer it to be the latter.Haughty,supercilious, condescending, obnoxious...pick one...hell pick all of them. You wear it so well.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

I've been reading your posts for a few years on this board and I must say I'm a bit confused. You CLAIM to be a Patriots fan but every post you ever make is made in a mocking, condescending, dismissive tone. I assume you deliberately use UK Pats as a login so people will make THAT distinction that you are from the United Kingdom. I find this odd also, in that I have never even entertained the thought of using USA Joker on any board I frequent in cyberspace.

Let's drop the TK Ward discussion and go straight to the heart of this matter...you appear at infrequent intervals always using the same type of language directed at Patriots fans on this site...let me quote you..."pathetic", "classless", "naive"...and to top off this snark, you make a sweeping judgement based on a fan's emotional response that summarizes who HE is in real life.
"I don't know you, but that provides me with a pretty good summary of what kind of person you are."

If you cannot fathom why a young Patriot fan would emotionally react to another player taking a hit on Gronk's knee, already ravaged by a Pollard low hit and again by Ward last season, then you are either woefully naive to the basic NFL fan mindset OR you are a direct descendent of Lt. Colonel Banastre Tarleton. I would prefer it to be the latter.Haughty,supercilious, condescending, obnoxious...pick one...hell pick all of them. You wear it so well.

Joker, you have impressed!
Using Col. Tarleton in a post yet have the post be spot on?? That right there is noteworthy.....

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

I am glad Gronk has the athleticism and now the experience to protect himself better. BTW NE was the more physical team and not only beat but beat up the Broncos and did it without controversy.

Colts are next!

Agreed. Gronk pulled off a nice defensive move. I'm sure it was a direct result of his injury experience.
And I think he is going to need that 'protect my knees' thought process. Gronk's going to catch a lot of balls and do a lot of rumblin-stumblin YAC. Given the size differential and that he can, sometimes, throw these DB tacklers off him, his knees/legs have a bullseye on them (a shut out to a short sighted NFL for its rule making).

I cringed at several of Gronk's take downs as DBs were tackling him low. Obviously our road to the division crown-#1 seed-SB is conspicuously less curvy with Gronk staying healthy. His heightened consciousness about protecting his knees is a needed bit of help in keeping him on the field.

 

[AzorianPats]

He tackles logically. I wouldn't take Gronk around the waist at 200lbs. That's suicide. We have seen guys wrap Gronk around the legs and be dragged for five yards!!

I watched a lot of condensed games from this week and people go low all the time. Ward was as much a danger to himself...that's a neck breaker in every sense of the word the way he went in...and he does that quite a lot FYI. He's not a great form tackler..but there are plenty like it. Watch every game condensed and count the number of times someone chops a guys legs out from underneath him because of a size mismatch. Most games you need two hands.

You'd also need a couple to count the number of cut blocks that occur. They are equally as dangerous to a D Lineman as a low hit on a bigger player but it is legal and a widely taught technique.

It was dangerous to both him and Gronk but I don't think he is going out to injure. He's going out to get the man down and in as quick and efficient way as possible. For someone of his size going against a 270lb Gronk, logically you would aim fo the legs.

Coaches absolutely coach their players to take the legs out from under a player. It isn't with intent to injure. It's called playing smart. If you were a 200lb safety and had Gronk coming at you, you'd be stupid to go gny higher than the thigh and, with the speed this game is played at, you just get as low as you can as quickly as you can.

Plenty of Pats players go low. People are just to naive to see it.



That's not even funny.

Wishing injury on someone is pathetic and classless. I don't know you, but that provides me with a pretty good summary of what kind of person you are.

There is nothing logical about aiming the crown of the helmet to a knee. That's not trying to take someone out low, that's trying to take someone's career out. If players didn't wear helmets, there is no way Ward even thinks about that type of play. Period.

Its not an illegal hit with the way the rule stands, but its a dirty hit.

 

[1960Pats]

His intent was nearly obvious. . Just look at the replay angle from the line of scrimmage.. Ward had 15 to 20 yards to line that hit up and as he approaches Gronk, his eyes are literally staring directly at the knee and aiming his hit, then he lowers his head to use the crown of his helmet as the impact point square into Gronks knee.

The guy is a scumbag.. I'm not going to be wishing injury on anyone, but if I read next week that Ward left the game with a torn ACL from an offensive player going low on him, I wouldn't be crying myself to sleep that night I'll tell you that much.

I feel the same way about the dog killer. Hopefully he'll play against the Pats and Big Vince will body slam him to the ground and knock all the air out of him. I would then celebrate by giving our dog Millie a treat, maybe even two of them. Does that make me a bad person?

As for Ward's hit, it was clear that he was targeting Gronk's knee. He said that he'd do it and he did. What more proof does anyone need to know that Ward's a scumbag?

If NFL life was fair, the players that lead with the crown of their helmet with the intent to injure other players would be the players that end up getting injured. Maybe if one of them ended up in a wheelchair the NFL would address this obvious problem. The Brandon Merriweather and TJ Ward types take too many players out with cheap shots, players that I'd rather watch play.

 

[1960Pats]

From my experience playing the game, I would simply say that the only thing going through your mind when making a tackle is how to effectively get the guy on the ground and not miss the tackle. Missing a tackle is very easy to do. To suggest that players line up a spot to hit to injure a player makes no sense to me. The game is just too fast, and the guy you are trying to tackle is trying not to get tackled.

From my limited experience playing football, if I had 10+ yards to line a player up and the player had his back to me as he was catching a pass, I always found it possible to hit him any place I wanted, . If I were a dope like TJ Ward I could have taken out quite a few knees in my day. Luckily, I was taught to tackle the way McCourtey took out Welker, the hard but clean way.

 

[1960Pats]

You could very well be right, but there was enough time to see Gronk thinking, "this guy's gonna take out my knee again, isn't he? Oh sh*t! He is!"

He did get Gronk down.

 

[obgod3]

I dislike Ward, never did like him even before the the Gronk injury. I watch a lot of game not just the Pats and he was a guy I always though took cheap shots and late shots. But this guy is no different than the old Merriweather IMHO, not sure it is all on purpose, still don't like him.

On Denver radio here before the game he clearly said what he would do, now in his defense he said there is just no other way to take Gronk down. But the difference to me is wrapping up Gronks legs vs. diving at his knees !

 

[Oswlek]

He did get Gronk down.

Most dirty hits do.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

Ward probably said to Broncos, see what I did last year if I get another chance to hit Gronk I'll get'm again except Gronk abused him & their D. Maybe it's time for a cleet to 'Accidently' get jammed in Ward's face mask when goes low?!

 

[Gronkowski123]

every time i see the hit i get pissed. ward wanted to destroy gronk's knee. he torpedoed himself straight into gronk's knee.

i dont wish injury on anyone but if something happens to tj ward i wouldn't care. absolute scumbag.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

I hope someone goes low on Ward and see how he likes it...

 

[Ring 6]

From my limited experience playing football, if I had 10+ yards to line a player up and the player had his back to me as he was catching a pass, I always found it possible to hit him any place I wanted, . If I were a dope like TJ Ward I could have taken out quite a few knees in my day. Luckily, I was taught to tackle the way McCourtey took out Welker, the hard but clean way.

He was a moving target. Rarely in football do you have time to 'line up' a player. You get there as fast as you can and get the best hit you can. I'm just not understanding why people think hitting a 265lb TE low isn't the best chance to bring him down. If he had wrapped up with his arms, would that be different? Because that wouldn't really change anything. At that point would we be arguing that the hit was 6 inches too low?

 

[SalemPats]

I'm serious about this, but someone needs to take TJ Ward out because what he tried to do was dirty. I really tried to watch this weekend the safeties and see how they tackle and none went for the knees like Ward did.

 

[PatsWSB47]

I look at the preponderance of the evidence. He knew who he was tackling. He knew it was the same guy who he ended the season for last year. He knows the knee is vulnerable and he deliberately goes for it with his helmet first. Now you can have a plausible argument that he felt he had no choice but to go for him low, he being Gronk and all but the clincher for me was his celebration and posturing after the tackle. Who postures like that and celebrates a failed stop of a big first down? Its the Patriots and Gronk that should be doing that, not Ward. Ward was clearly rubber stamping his classless, dirty attempt this time around. he's a piece of crap.

 

[chasa]

luckily gronk didn't take the same kind of shot the giant's running back did against the seahawks

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

He was a moving target. Rarely in football do you have time to 'line up' a player. You get there as fast as you can and get the best hit you can. I'm just not understanding why people think hitting a 265lb TE low isn't the best chance to bring him down. If he had wrapped up with his arms, would that be different? Because that wouldn't really change anything. At that point would we be arguing that the hit was 6 inches too low?

You make a fair point. The size and power differential sputs a single DB tackler in a tough spot to tackle Gronk. Going low is the optimal method at tackling him.

The health/careers are on the line with this extremely vulnerable spot (the knees) and the NFL has no problem implementing many 'safety' rules such as making the QB 90% unhittable, WR's unhittable in the head-leading with the head-in any way defenseless during the catch, horse collaring a guy from behind, lining up behind your own player on a FG try (to name a few). If the NFL can discourage all that then they can discourage tackling at this very vulnerable point of the body, the knees. They could say tackling a receiver with possession of the ball must be done just above the knees (unless pushed or momentum causes it) just as it is sorta required to be just below the head.

It seems to me Ward was purposefully launching right at Gronk's knees (admittedly that is only my take on it). If the NFL is serious about limiting serious/career/possibly life altering injury, launching at the knees cannot continue to be A-OK. At minimum a process to fine someone clearly launching at the knees under these specific circumstances must be employed.

 

[Marinlik]

He was a moving target. Rarely in football do you have time to 'line up' a player. You get there as fast as you can and get the best hit you can. I'm just not understanding why people think hitting a 265lb TE low isn't the best chance to bring him down. If he had wrapped up with his arms, would that be different? Because that wouldn't really change anything. At that point would we be arguing that the hit was 6 inches too low?

There is a difference between throwing yourself head first at someones knee and wrap up on their thigh like the Seahawks do when they tackle. Both can bring big guys down, but one is a knee buster.

 

[Nikolai]

I was an undersized DB (9th grade) playing guys who were 3 years older and much bigger than me. Wrapping high on the thigh and holding on for dear life is a sure way to bring down a bigger guy, and probably saves a yard or two over diving at the knees. At least, that's how I was taught, and it seemed to work.

Turd Juggler Ward is making the lazy, and also dirty, play.

 

[Ring 6]

You make a fair point. The size and power differential sputs a single DB tackler in a tough spot to tackle Gronk. Going low is the optimal method at tackling him.

The health/careers are on the line with this extremely vulnerable spot (the knees) and the NFL has no problem implementing many 'safety' rules such as making the QB 90% unhittable, WR's unhittable in the head-leading with the head-in any way defenseless during the catch, horse collaring a guy from behind, lining up behind your own player on a FG try (to name a few). If the NFL can discourage all that then they can discourage tackling at this very vulnerable point of the body, the knees. They could say tackling a receiver with possession of the ball must be done just above the knees (unless pushed or momentum causes it) just as it is sorta required to be just below the head.

It seems to me Ward was purposefully launching right at Gronk's knees (admittedly that is only my take on it). If the NFL is serious about limiting serious/career/possibly life altering injury, launching at the knees cannot continue to be A-OK. At minimum a process to fine someone clearly launching at the knees under these specific circumstances must be employed.

But its football.
Players are going to get injured, including career ending injuries because it is a game of collisions. When it stops being that it stops being football.
I watch that play (and granted its not the best replay) and I can't tell if the hit is in the lower thigh or the knee. How could you expect a ref to effectively call that?
I just don't think you can play the game of football saying that you must tackle a player by hitting within only a certain target zone that is less than half the body. Yes I know they do that with the QB, and frankly, that has ****ified the game. Look at the calls we had in week 1, particularly HT because he tackled the QB and landed on him, or the silly calls when a guy running past the QB inadvertantly brushes up against his helmet.
We could turn it into flag football, but short of that, it is a game where a player is doing everything he can to not let you tackle him and you have to allow the defender a fair chance. Remember helmet to helmet hits are not an effective tackling method under any circumstances. Hitting between the thigh and ankle is.