David Mims ~ Right Guard Project with Super Beast Up Side!!

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by Off The Grid, Feb 20, 2011.

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  1. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #3 Jersey

    David Mims of Virginia Union ~ 6.8/350!!

    I don't know if I've ever brought him up, before ~ Wes Bunting awoke me to'is presence on CowBoysNation, back in early Autumn: Dallas Cowboys News & Analysis | Cowboys Nation: Wes Bunting's Weekly Draft Tips: Look to the Juniors ~ but here's a guy to whom I've been giving SERIOUS thought, for the last few days ~ and who Brother Mohammed Ali brought up in PatriotsPlanet, today ~ ever since my faint, haunting fears about Benjamin Ijalana were awoken by Brother Bunting's reports on rumors of Ijalana's alleged wussiness, early this week.

    Needless to say: His listed weight ~ Mims ~ makes him ideal for Smash Mouth, obviously, but not our own Zone approach. Even so...

    David Mims commands a MOUNTAIN of Talent. No joke: He could, properly guided, become a Defensive LineMan's NIGHTMARE.

    ~ Power
    ~ Huge Manacles
    ~ SHOCKING Athleticism.

    My take: If Steve Maneri can gain 30 or 40 pounds of beef to become a Swing Tackle, then, in the interest of becoming a Right Guard, David Mims, finally exposed to the benefits of a professional S+C Coach ~ and an amazing O Line Coach!! ~ as well as to the rigors and guidance of Belichick's Machine...can burn OFF 30 or 40 Pounds...and become a 315-320 Pound Zone Blocking GOD.

    ...Or, better yet: GODZILLA. [​IMG]
  2. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #3 Jersey

    This guy is raw as HELL ~ Bunting reports that he doesn't even have a LINE Coach!! :eek: ~ but offers BEASTISH Up Side, and for the likely price of a 6th or 7th Rounder, a la Ramon HareWood, last year!!

    And I'll tell you, straight out: he is, to date, the ONLY Soul in the entire DRAFT that I'd want to draft for Right Guard...And draft for Right Guard, we MUST.

    And if he only costs a 6th or 7th Rounder??

    All the better.
  3. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Too tall to play guard.
  4. OldNEPatsFan

    OldNEPatsFan Practice Squad Player

    Mims is ROT prospect, not a guard.
  5. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #3 Jersey

    Ah, hell...

    You guys are right, of course.

    I got ahead of myself on that one, as I am wont to do.

    Thank you, gentlemen.


    Even so: I say we haul this guy in and put The Belichick Machine to work on him.

    He'd be even DEADLIER as a Right Tackle...And we could develop TWO All Pro Caliber O Tackles by the end of this coming year, with him for the right side, and Willie Smith for the Left: Our Depth of Talent there ~ for the current price of a 6th Rounder and a Free Agent ~ would be VAST.


    As far as Right Guard is concerned, I have the same answer as I have at Center:

    Pass on the LOT of'm.

    I see no players at EITHER position who I consider worthy of their projected slots.

    Benjamin Ijalana's not tough enough for my taste.
    Danny Watkins isn't long enough, in my view.
    Ditto, Jason Pinkston.

    And those're my three favorites.

    The others don't bear consideration: There're some nice values out there, but no likely All Pro's, that I can discern.

    And I have ZERO interest in drafting a Right Guard who's good enough to make the PlayOffs...but not good enough to help us WIN the PlayOffs.

    I don't know about YOU...but I'VE had my FILL...of THAT.


    I've actually toyed with the idea of drafting Willie Smith and moving him to Guard...

    The idea would be to improve that position, right now ~ by about Halloween, I figure ~ and then go after Riley Reiff or one the other guys in the exceptional 2012 O Tackle Class.


    But what I think I'd REALLY like to do...is roll with what we've got for this year. I'd rather focus on the Defense, because that's where the Value is in the early rounds of this Draft, as I see it. I'd rather bet on huge improvement in the Defense, based on the massive amounts of experience our young crew got this year, and on the enormous influx of Impact Talent we should expect.

    A good O Line has always been good enough for us to win the Super Bowl, if the Defense is up to snuff.


    And, next year?

    I say we draft Mike Brewster AND Peter Konz, and let one play Right Guard!! :eek:

    We would have, arguably, The Best O Line in HISTORY...and the DEEPEST.
  6. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    I don't know why you say this, his arms are 33 3/4 inches long, many people think Mankins, with his 33 3/8 inch long arms is one of the best Guards in the league.

    Also, seeing how Jake Long (32 7/8-inch), Michael Roos (approx 32 inches), and Joe Thomas (32 1/2 inch), who many people will cite as elite tackles) have arm lengths that are nothing special, yet this idea that an O-lineman needs long arms persists. Given those guys success I would hope that this arm length idea would be seriously reconsidered.

    In that excellent video you posted with Trevor Pryce he never once mentions arm length for a D-lineman, and he does actively discount the emphasis on bench press and 40 times. His emphasis on the ability to be light on one's feet and aware of the situation is cited as being critical. He might know what he's talking about.
  7. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #3 Jersey

    Gosh, do you think so? [​IMG]

    Did you REALLY just write "He might know what he's talking about" to the guy ~ me ~ who POSTED that video, and lauded the guy's insight?? [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    *By the way: Arm Length never came up in that video.

    You ascribed a position to Mr Pryce that he never even breathed a word about, yeah or nay, despite your weak and rather weird attempt to position him as having done so.

    Interesting debating style you have, there: Complete Fabrication, Sarcasm, and getting so confused about which position you're taking that you actually ~ sarcastically ~ suggest a guy "might know what he's talking about" to the guy ~ that would be me! ~ that loudly praised him in the first place!! [​IMG]
  8. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #3 Jersey

    Regarding Danny Watkins: I've been wrong before and will surely be wrong, again: I'll wait until the official numbers from The Combine, but if I turn out to be wrong about him, I will change my mind in an INSTANT, shamelessly and remorselessly.

    But that's no reason to get snippy, every time anyone expresses a lack of enthusiasm for a prospect that isn't as tall or as lengthy as we would have us draft!! [​IMG]
  9. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Pryce talked about what he thought was important, and arm length was not it. He also said he could tell who would and would not be there by listening to their footsteps, he didn’t talk about looking at their arms, it was listening to their feet.

    That being said, why is it that Watkins arms are too short while being longer than Mankins?

    Why are some of the best tackles in the league guys with "short" arms?
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2011
  10. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    #50 Jersey

    OTG, I'm surprised by your emphasis on length at OG. I would think surper-long arms and a 6'8" frame would be a liability at guard -- in fact, even tackles of that size can end up struggling with DL's getting under their pads. Remember Tedy Bruschi's comments when Kaczur was attempting (struggling) to adjust to Mankins' guard spot during camp?

    Tedy Bruschi and Mike Reiss break down the New England Patriots heading into training camp - ESPN Boston

    Kaczur's all of 6'4" 4/8 with 33 7/8" arms.

    So I really don't get all of the calls to move guys like Mims and Carimi inside. I'd think it would only turn the physical qualities that are their biggest strengths into weaknesses.
  11. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #3 Jersey

    Oh, my head was DEEPLY implanted in my nether regions on THIS OP, Sister Pat, no doubt about it!! :eek:

    And those are EXTREMELY interesting points you bring up.

    To be clear: there are literally THOUSANDS of nuances to this game that I am fuzzy or worse on. I'm very adept at the conceptual aspects of things, but the knowledge that the likes of you, Ochmed Jones, and others bring to the table simply DWARFS mine.

    No offense, Snake, old dog. ;)

    Consequently, I am quite confident that there are MANY mistakes in my future, as I continue to take my FootBall knowledge through the gears.

    I think it's fair to say that my enthusiasm is Light Years ahead of my expertise. :eek:

    ...All of which is to answer your question about why I could take the position I did on the Length of interior LineMen: My own ~ in the words of Ronald Reagan ~ "youth and inexperience". :D

    And that's not to say that I'm completely persuaded that length ~ up to an extent, mind you!! ~ is detrimental. I need to chew this over a bit...Maybe TWO bits. And to pull out another quote, this one from Johny 5: "Need More Input." [​IMG]

    But I AM now a LITTLE bit smarter, because you took the time to post what you did, Sister Pat, and for that this Plebe offers you his humble ~ and sincere ~ Thanks. :D
  12. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    That's a great point, I still have nightmares of Robert Mathis bull-rushing Kaczur right up to Brady in the 09 loss to the Colts.
  13. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Bum ankles do seem to have an impact on knee bend and balance ...
  14. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Ever hear the expression by commentators "Low man wins"? It has to do with center of gravity, the lower one's center of gravity the more inherently stable you are. Being very tall with long arms means you are more easily upended, so if one were to go with very tall O-linemen I'd simply put short, stout defenders on them and bull-rush the hell out of them.

    Aside from whether Kaczur was injured (players are never 100% healthy) he still has a bit of a relative disadvantage from someone like Mathis, this might not fit into your paradigm but it's reality.
  15. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Oddly enough I have. I'm just curious as to how many plays where Mathis and Kaczur have squared off against each other since 2005 have featured the result which has so scarred your mind as to see all play results with the same vision? Your argument for low man wins is one facet of the trench combat discussion, generalizing from the limited sample you cited would argue a rather narrow paradigm of your own. ;)
  16. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    When did I EVER say center of gravity was the be all of trench warfare? It's just one of MANY aspects of it but it's rooted VERY firmly in physics.

    The narrow paradigm isn't mine but rather the people who discount a player like Dareus because he's 6'3 rather than 6'4. There appears to be a very deep misunderstanding of mechanical advantage in addition to center of gravity.

    Think about the last time you changed the tire on a car, if you were using a short wrench it was probably very tough but if you used a long wrench you'll notice that it was a lot easier, the increased length gave you a mechanical advantage. The opponent is the bolt and his arm is the wrench, the longer his arms the easier it is to move HIM.

    If you look at champion powerlifters you'll notice that they typically have short, stubby arms, it allows them to move those loads easier because can move the same amount of weight easier. If you know anyone that does Judo or Brazilian JuJitsu ask them how it is working with someone who has very long limbs compared to someone with short limbs, in general you'll find that it's more difficult going against the guy with shorter arms.

    As I noted prior, why is it that some of the best O-linemen in the league have relatively short arms? If those short arms allow them to do a very good job controlling their opponent why isnt the same true for a D-lineman?

    Finally, let's look at a top 3-4 DE in OUR defense, how often do you see Seymour with his long arms holding the guy where the guy cannot touch him? Whenever Seymour is making contact the other guy can also touch him, there a bunch of stuff going on which allows Seymour to dominate and it's not because his arms are an inch longer than the other guy or because he might be an inch higher.

    YouTube - Richard Seymour - NFL Defensive Lineman
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2011
  17. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    I hope you are not confusing me with those critical of Dareus' potential in NE's defense? :confused2:
  18. WesWelker83

    WesWelker83 Practice Squad Player

    My two favorite Guard prospects in this draft for us are Danny Watkins and Clint Boling. Both of them have the size and playing style to succeed right away in our system.
  19. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    I'm big on Watkins but havent seen much footage of Boling, by the scouting reports it seems that his weaknesses are correctable. He'd probably be a good value pick up.
  20. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Boling played primarily at RG, but he was moved all over the line to either shore up a weak spot or replace an injured player. He had starts last season at LT, RG, RT. He did pretty well against Fairley in the Auburn game, it was my impression they moved Fairley to the other side in the second half to give him more opportunity to create havoc. For what it may be worth, NE Scouts reportedly attended several Georgia games.
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