Celtics 2023 - 2024 Discussion

[Kdo5]

Tatum went out with 6:55 in the first quarter.

Against the Heat zone, Brown missed two free throws, missed two terrible forced shots (one blocked) and had a turnover.

That was in a 3 minute stretch. Tatum subbed in for him at 3:45.

Brown didn’t return until 7:03 second quarter (that’s nearly nine minutes) during which time Tatum and Hauser were on fire since the ball was actually moving and stopped getting stuck at Jaylen Brown so he could stupidly dribble into a zone. The guy has been in the league 8 years and still doesn’t get that you can’t hold the ball and dribble into a zone defense, which is why Spoelstra loves him.

Already said he had a bad stretch early, he was better afterward. Again do you have anything else to say about this team or the game? Anything? Or just froth about Brown the rest of the playoffs? It’s so old.

Hauser got hot from the corner, great to see. We’ll need more where that came from.

Speaking of Brown though it was nice to see him get in Martin’s face for the dirty play at the end with Tatum. He could’ve really gotten hurt.

 

[Jim Beankie]

Speaking of Brown though it was nice to see him get in Martin’s face for the dirty play at the end with Tatum. He could’ve really gotten hurt.

To me Martin's play was intentional and dirty. I was getting all Johnny Most level angry after watching the replay 5 times.

 

[jimnance]

Anybody who references Johnny
Most gets a " like" from me.
Doesn't even matter what you posted.

 

[Kdo5]

To me Martin's play was intentional and dirty. I was getting all Johnny Most level angry after watching the replay 5 times.

Scal was insinuating that Spoelstra encouraged it in the huddle. I’m not sure I’d go that far but it was ridiculous and the announcers were saying it wasn’t dirty.

 

[Jim Beankie]

...the announcers were saying it wasn’t dirty.

I respect their opinion, but hearing that pissed me off even more. Now I wanna hear what Scal said.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Imagine being able to have this option and watch this great game without morons talking about dumb stuff.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Scal was insinuating that Spoelstra encouraged it in the huddle. I’m not sure I’d go that far but it was ridiculous and the announcers were saying it wasn’t dirty.

I'm buying it. Spoles is a Pat Riley disciple. If you can't match them with talent then fight dirty and get the opponent off their game.

...and that foul was ********. That was a Flagrant 1

 

[bresna]

Tatum was doubled almost every time he touched the ball. He only posted up against that double team a few times. I don't think he was selfish in this game. You don't get a triple-double if you don't pass the ball. Tatum's problem was his terrible shooting.

I think Brown going to the hoop was a called play designed to get the Heat to drop down help to open up the perimeter. It probably would have worked better if these refs had stopped swallowing their whistles when anyone not named Bam drove to the hoop.

The refs putting away their whistles probably led to the Heat's change to a more physical defense in the 4th, which could have gotten ugly if Tatum had chosen to escalate the situation after that bad foul by Caleb Martin, which looked pretty fragrant to me. If the refs continue to let the Heat play the Celts like this, someone is going to get hurt.

BTW - why was Kornet in street clothes?

 

[Kdo5]

I respect their opinion, but hearing that pissed me off even more. Now I wanna hear what Scal said.

Basically pointed out how Spoelstra called a meaningless timeout that late with the game sealed and immediately after Martin barged into Tatum.

Edit: Saw an overhead video circulating which shows Jrue giving a solid bump to Martin that resulted in him crashing into Tatum. So maybe not dirty after all.

 

[Kdo5]

Tatum was doubled almost every time he touched the ball. He only posted up against that double team a few times. I don't think he was selfish in this game. You don't get a triple-double if you don't pass the ball. Tatum's problem was his terrible shooting.

I think Brown going to the hoop was a called play designed to get the Heat to drop down help to open up the perimeter. It probably would have worked better if these refs had stopped swallowing their whistles when anyone not named Bam drove to the hoop.

The refs putting away their whistles probably led to the Heat's change to a more physical defense in the 4th, which could have gotten ugly if Tatum had chosen to escalate the situation after that bad foul by Caleb Martin, which looked pretty fragrant to me. If the refs continue to let the Heat play the Celts like this, someone is going to get hurt.

BTW - why was Kornet in street clothes?

I agree, they weren’t selfish. Both Tatum and Brown have become willing passers to the open three, especially Brown. They have trust in guys like Hauser and Pritchard and are more than willing to find them for the open look.

 

[RobertWeathers]

BTW - why was Kornet in street clothes?

Injured his calf during practice last week. Might be out for a few games.

 

[bresna]

Basically pointed out how Spoelstra called a meaningless timeout that late with the game sealed and immediately after Martin barged into Tatum.

Edit: Saw an overhead video circulating which shows Jrue giving a solid bump to Martin that resulted in him crashing into Tatum. So maybe not dirty after all.

He might've been bumped, but it looked to me like he jumped a bit as well. You get bumped, you stumble, you don't usually leave your feet like that.

Does anyone have a .gif of that play?

 

[Jim Beankie]

Basically pointed out how Spoelstra called a meaningless timeout that late with the game sealed and immediately after Martin barged into Tatum.

Edit: Saw an overhead video circulating which shows Jrue giving a solid bump to Martin that resulted in him crashing into Tatum. So maybe not dirty after all.

Ah dang it, you're probably right. In the 2nd replay, Martin is clearly pushed off his line to the basket resulting in the crash to Tatum. The announcers were right. My anger was misguided... or maybe it was just so convenient for Martin...

 

[bresna]

Ah dang it, you're probably right. In the 2nd replay, Martin is clearly pushed off his line to the basket resulting in the crash to Tatum. The announcers were right. My anger was misguided... or maybe it was just so convenient for Martin...

No way. He got bumped, took two steps and then jumped into Tatum. The contact might not have been intentional but the type of contact was. He went up like a CB defending a pass.

 

[Jim Beankie]

No way. He got bumped, took two steps and then jumped into Tatum. The contact might not have been intentional but the type of contact was. He went up like a CB defending a pass.

Yeah it definitely looked like a CB making a WR pay for a hospital ball.

 

[jimnance]

No way. He got bumped, took two steps and then jumped into Tatum. The contact might not have been intentional but the type of contact was. He went up like a CB defending a pass.

I agree but to me was not a  dirty play.
A physical one that was very close to being dirty but not quite.
Playoff basketball. This used to be the norm in the nba. Game has gotten too soft, just like the nfl has.
That being said, if that happened to one of my teammates in a game, I'd react the same way Brown did.

 

[bresna]

Did everyone see this? Am I the only one who thought of Giselle?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Final Regular Season Stats

Box Plus Minus

Tatum 5.1
Porzingis 5.1
White 3.8
Horford 3.6
Holiday 2.1
Hauser 1.2
Pritchard 1.0
Brown 0.7

Win Shares / 48 Minutes

Porzingis .226
Tatum .189
Horford .172
White .171
Pritchard .160
Hauser .134
Holiday .133
Brown .122

True Shooting Percentage

Horford .650
Porzingis .647
Hauser .629
White .611
Tatum .604
Holiday .594
Pritchard .594
Brown .580

(Bonus) Free Throw Pct

White .901
Hauser .895
Horford .867
Porzingis .858
Tatum .833
Holiday .833
Pritchard .821
(Gap 1)
(Gap 2)
Brown .703

 

[bresna]

Final Regular Season Stats

Box Plus Minus

Tatum 5.1
Porzingis 5.1
White 3.8
Horford 3.6
Holiday 2.1
Hauser 1.2
Pritchard 1.0
Brown 0.7

Win Shares / 48 Minutes

Porzingis .226
Tatum .189
Horford .172
White .171
Pritchard .160
Hauser .134
Holiday .133
Brown .122

True Shooting Percentage

Horford .650
Porzingis .647
Hauser .629
White .611
Tatum .604
Holiday .594
Pritchard .594
Brown .580

(Bonus) Free Throw Pct

White .901
Hauser .895
Horford .867
Porzingis .858
Tatum .833
Holiday .833
Pritchard .821
(Gap 1)
(Gap 2)
Brown .703

I don't know exactly what your point is though... every team needs a player like Brown who can drive the lane and take the defense with him. I don't think stats like the ones you've posted take into account how these outside shooters have such high shooting percentages. It might have something to do with the shots being wide open half of the time because someone drove the lane and sent it out to the uncovered shooter on the perimeter.

That being said, Brown's free throw shooting sucks and I would hate to have him on the free throw line with the game in the balance.

 

[Kdo5]

I don't know exactly what your point is though... every team needs a player like Brown who can drive the lane and take the defense with him. I don't think stats like the ones you've posted take into account how these outside shooters have such high shooting percentages. It might have something to do with the shots being wide open half of the time because someone drove the lane and sent it out to the uncovered shooter on the perimeter.

That being said, Brown's free throw shooting sucks and I would hate to have him on the free throw line with the game in the balance.

Very fair post. Brown’s ability to drive to lane is superior to everyone else on the team and it’s crucial when we mostly have guys who would like to take threes. They are helped by his penetration in the lane.

I agree Brown’s FT shooting is scary though. You can tell he is always thinking about it and perhaps focusing too hard on his form. If the Celtics are up and you need to foul at the end Brown is the guy to go after.