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Bedard: let six free agents walk

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by goheels22002, Feb 10, 2013.

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  1. goheels22002

    goheels22002 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    An offseason to-do list for the New England Patriots - Sports - The Boston Globe

    Bedard sums up his Patriots offseason plan with "let Welker, Lloyd, Talib, Donald Thomas, Chung and Vollmer walk in free agency. Re-sign Edelman, Arrington, Woodhead, Scott and Cole."

    That is completely reasonable with the $18 million in cap space, but you can also keep Lloyd and sign one other free agent, if my calculations are close. I'd make a play for Welker after he tests the market if possible, and then re-sign Thomas. I'd let Talib, Vollmer and Chung go.
  2. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This sort of output is why I follow Bedard for his reporting, and not his analysis.
  3. CheeseMonkeys

    CheeseMonkeys Rookie

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    Let Welker and Lloyd go? Who's our #1 at that point? :confused:

    The Draft isn't our best shot at a starting WR and I don't think there are too many other options in FA.

    I hope to god they find a way to get Talib back.
  4. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

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    Bedard suggests the Patriots go with a wide receiving corps of
    Ebert, Edleman, and Slater? Possibly the worst receiving corps
    in NFL history?
  5. eom

    eom Rookie

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    lloyd is fa?
  6. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Bedard's analysis is bad, even for Bedard. However, he did NOT suggest no additions at WR.
    As is the case for many here, he suggest a major free agent addition as well as a draftee.

    It is pretty crazy to set both Welker and Lloyd go and expect to replace their production in free agency and/or free agency.

  7. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He wants the Patriots to be competing with the Jets on equal footing, apparently. I'm surprised he didn't suggest cutting Brady loose and trading for Chad Henne.


    Here's the WR free agent list:

    WalterFootball.com: 2013 NFL Free Agents - Wide Receivers

    Everyone clamoring for WR change needs to take a look at that list. Realize that Welker and Lloyd obviously won't be options. Then take a look at the WRs who will either be tendered, franchised or at a cost that means little to no savings in comparison to Welker/Lloyd (i.e. Cruz, Bowe, Wallace, Jennings, Alexander, Hartline, Amendola) and quite possibly/likely with a drop in productivity, and then ask yourself how the hell such moves are supposed to make any sense.

    There's no upgrade to Welker available, and there are precious few upgrades to Lloyd.
  8. ChrisR2223

    ChrisR2223 Rookie

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    I would start the rebuild now I would offer talib 3 years at 21 million with most of the cash pushed back to protect myself to see if he stays on the patriots way.
    I would aggressively go after another quality defensive back as well such as Sean smith at about 5 million a year. Over 3 yrs.
    I would let Welker cash his last big paycheck somewhere else.
    I would resign Edelman at about 2 million a year over 4 years.
    I would restructure the contracts of Brady Mankins and Wilfork.
    I would offer Danny woodhead 2.5 million for 2 years but I see him walking cause all the depth and vareen and demps filling in his role.
    I let vollmer walk his injury history and the big amount of cap space he would eat up plus the great job scar does we can find someone to fill his role.
    I offer the kitchen sink to the Vikings for Percy harvin he's insanely talented very flexible in scheme and a home run threat everytime. Plus belichick was rumored to love him. Our 1 st could get that done. If the Vikings and Harvin are looking for a change.
    I sign DHB the man has speed and maybe we can ressurect his career like we did for Moss
    2 million a 1 yr prove it kind of deal great situation for him. I don't stop there I pick up a receiver like Louis Murphy off the scrap heap and kick the tires on him.
    The Patriots may or may not go all in on the reed sweepstakes I'd personally pass and bring in Adrian Wilson from Arizona I would trade up to a 4th round pick and bring in this proven leader and warrior to reshape the toughness In the secondary the same way Harrison did.
    I feel like this is a bad taste in Belichicks mouth and he will be incredibly aggressive to try to get past very good to get to elite status.
    2 idle thoughts Mallett to the Cowboys for a high pick and if Spikes isn't in the long term plans mainly with his lack of coverage ability and the true need for a thumper becoming less and less maybe they like Fletcher to take over that role. And trade him for a few mid picks. .

    Thoughts?
  9. Brady2Moss

    Brady2Moss Rookie

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  10. DarrylS

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    Can see BB doing this, but the proposed replacements at WR leave us very thin... and does not seem all that fair to #12 and the rest of this team.

    If they did do it, there would a lot of subsequent moves...
  11. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

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    The going rate for a good wide receiver in free agency is about double what
    Lloyd will be making. In addition, there is no guarantee how he will fit in with
    Tom Brady. With regard to the draft, our last success with drafting one was
    2002 when the Patriots got Branch and Givens.
  12. Sticky Caulk

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    Has one person that wants to let Welker go come up with a real solution to the receiver problem if that happens? Who replaces that production without costing as much, if not more than Welker will?

    Releasing Lloyd is also a terrible idea. He wasn't signed to be Calvin Johnson. His numbers were way above the receivers that have been in his position the past few years.

    Why do you think Ocho never saw the ball? Sure, he wasn't close to a great route runner and he came into new England slower than his Cincy days, but really, he wasn't a high priority target. Neither is Lloyd. Considering that, Lloyd did pretty well, almost exactly half of what Welker does as the top weapon on offense

    Welk 2012: 16 games 118 Rec. for 1,354 yards and 6 TDs
    Lloyd 2012: 16 games 74 Rec. for 911 yards and 4 TDs
    Lloyd 2010: 16 games 77 Rec. for 1,448 yards and 11 TDs
    Ocho 2011: 15 games 15 Rec. for 276 yards and 1 TD

    Remember the type of routes Welker usually runs. Which part of the field he runs them in. You will not find someone who can take the consistent hitting of the slot and put up numbers even close to Welker's without spending a lot more time and money than it would take to just keep him.
  13. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Bedard: Lets go 7-9
  14. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why do only 13 of Lloyds games count?
  15. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Lloyd is scheduled to receive $5M of new money this year and $3M next year. Would replacing him really cost twice that?

  16. Ian

    Ian Administrator Staff Member

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    #17 Jersey
    I was wondering the same thing but assume there's some method behind it? :confused:
  17. Sticky Caulk

    Sticky Caulk PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I typed the numbers from a page that had 13, for one reason or another. I, somehow, didn't notice.
  18. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That is not accurate, capwise.
    Cutting him now would cost 2 mill.
    Excersing his bonus and contract would result in a cap hit of 4.5mill this year and 5.5 next.
    So the net impact of keping vs cutting is 2.5mill this year and 4.5 next.

    Yes it will cost double that to sign a good WR that will keep our offense in the area it is, esp if you are letting Welker walk too.
    Letting both go will basically guarantee a big step back from the offense, but hey Bedard's plan lets us keep Edelman, Woodhead (an unnecessary cost after seeing what Vereen can do) and Arrington. Woohooo, if we are lucky we could have a top 10 offense to go with a bottom 10 defense.
  19. Ian

    Ian Administrator Staff Member

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    On paper I don't fault Bedard pondering letting Welker and Lloyd walk - the problem is history has shown that finding viable receivers either in the draft or via free agency in this offense seems to be next to impossible. So if they lose Welker, I don't see how they can take the chance letting Lloyd go.
  20. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    All of the numbers are wrong too, you should edit your post.
  21. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't know how you can justify letting your #2 go to save 2.5mill when you are letting your #1 go, conceivably because you can't afford him.
  22. Ian

    Ian Administrator Staff Member

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    No worries.

    Here are his numbers over 16 games from this season:

    Targets: 130
    Receptions 74
    Yards: 911
    YPC: 12.3
    1st downs: 50
    Touchdowns: 4
  23. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Indeed.....

    Under Belichick, the problem has rarely, if ever, been who the Patriots have let go. It's almost always been the inability to find an adequate replacement for that player, the timing of the move, or both.
  24. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Apparently the Globe has become a pay site. That is fine, because Bedards reporting will get re-reported and his analysis can be limited to people who find any value in it, and wish to pony up.
  25. Ian

    Ian Administrator Staff Member

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    Exactly, not without some sort of a real plan to replace them. If they're going to got that route and completely revamp their receiving corps, it's a dangerous proposition considering how bad the luck they've had in bringing guys in. After failing it's lead them to bring back veteran retreads who know the system but can't play anymore - and we've seen how well that's worked out :rolleyes:
  26. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Lloyd had 2 $3M bonuses, no more. The second is an option bonus due this year, presumably in the next month. This can be avoided. Yes, we would still be on the hook for $2M of the original bonus.

    I disagree with your analysis. I agree with your conclusion. I actually liked having Lloyd as part of the offense. He was a dependable #2 WR.

  27. Ian

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    No - you can read it. You just have to find the article in Google and click on it from there. It's the direct clicks that seem to bring you to a pay wall.
  28. borg

    borg Rookie

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    13,17,21,14,14.........points Pats scored in their playoff losses in the WW era. When the Pats play complete defenses on the big stage, their small ball approach gets snuffed out. Defenses can squeeze the center of the field knowing Brady's fleet of short route specialists
    will rarely try to expand the field.
    The time may have come to explore alternatives. Verses Baltimore, Kaepernick had only 16 completions but for 300+ yds and his team scored 31. Brady had 29 completions for 300+ yds but amassed only 13 points.. In this small ball offense, Brady had 25 incompletions....that's 25 plays of no gain......add in 3 runs of zero yds and 3 turnovers gets you 38% of offensive plays went for no gain or worse. A 53% passing attack that nets low yards/play.......that's the formula that loses verses championship caliber defenses.
  29. p8ryts

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    Ok with Welker leaving.
    Talib will want too much money
    Lloyd is worth his contract
    How about this as a money saver? Trade Mankins, sign Thomas. Mankins ought to be worth a number 1. Mankins is breaking down, Thomas did well in his place last year.
    Keep Vollmer.
    Somebody mentioned rebuilding. What? This team has been rebuilding for three years. Yes we could use a coverage middle linebacker, yes we could use a top flight SS, yes we could use a big fast WR. Who doesn't? Bill will tweak, fans will freak and we will compete for the division championship, the afc championship and maybe the super bowl.
  30. Brady2Moss

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    Mankins is breaking down --ought to be worth a 1?
    Guy who actually has been broken down his entire career here is worth keeping though and paying top dollar too.

    This baffles me.
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