Are the Patriots *hoping* to keep Hoyer/trade him in pre-season?

[supafly]

If Brady goes down for the season in Week 1, I don't really care who the backup is. It won't matter.

I respectfully disagree here. I think that Hoyer has a lot of experience in this system, and as someone else pointed out--could indeed lead them to a playoff berth for sure, even if it were a WC slot.

I honestly don't see Mallett being able to do that at this point in time anyway.

I wouldn't trade Hoyer for anything less than a 2nd, and that is not likely happening (nor is a 3rd or 4th in my opinion).

 

[bagwell368]

Brady goes down with an injury and is out for the season in week 1.

With Hoyer at QB: Hoyer proves himself to be a worthy NFL QB, with an easy schedule and a talented offense, the Pats go 12-4 and are the #2 seed.

With Mallett at Qb: Pats offense implodes, go 8-8, miss playoffs.

Hoyer is valuable and we need him IMO, can't trade him away since Mallett clearly isn't ready.

I see that half of it - but what if Brady isn't hurt? What if garbage time and pre season is all there is this year? Hoyer will be gone in '13 it's almost certain.

If it were me, I'd have Mallett as #2 for garbage time, but if they really need to play, BB chooses the one most ready at that moment. Why give Hoyer reps when he'll likely be gone next year?


As for a trade, they couldn't get anything for Hoyer before camp - or anything decent. Unless he gets as much time as Cassel this year, he's not going to get anything like a 2nd rounder (mentioned elsewhere).

 

[s3antana5757]

I thought, prior to him getting traded to NY, that the Pats should have considered trading Hoyer for Tebow. That would have netted them a back-up QB until Mallett is ready, a guy who could be a shortage yardage back, and a great leader. For Denver, they would have gotten their back-up incase of a Manning injury. Obviously, this all now moot, but that's what I would have done.

If they could get a 3rd round or better, I think they'd take it. They would need a QB to get hurt from another team, or Hoyer to absolutely kill it in pre-season.

 

[mayoclinic]

Kevin Kolb is out of the Arizona-Saints game with bruised ribs:

Kevin Kolb injures ribs, leaves Cardinals-Saints game - NFL.com

If John Skelton doesn't do well, the Cardinals may be in a tizzy about their QB situation. Kolb hasn't looked good, and if he misses any significant time in training camp it won't help. I'd trade Hoyer for Senio Kelemete and the Cardinals 2013 2nd round pick, just to help them out.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

I certainly don't think they'll refuse to trade Hoyer but I can't imagine the Pats would go into training camp with just 3 QBs while hoping to trade one of them.

 

[rookBoston]

I agree Mallett is still a little medium-rare on the inside. But this staff made an NFL starter out of Matt Cassell who never played a single game in college, and then led the Pats to the playoffs in 2008.

Hoyer is a ready-now QB who deserves some snaps. Patriots tried to move him before the draft, because they know he's readier than some of the scrubs starting at QB today.

Here's my bet for a team in need of some QB depth: San Diego Chargers: Who will be the backup quarterback in 2012? : San Diego Chargers

Anyone contemplating JP Losman and Jeff Garcia (lol!) is obviously desperate.

 

[supafly]

Kevin Kolb is out of the Arizona-Saints game with bruised ribs:

Kevin Kolb injures ribs, leaves Cardinals-Saints game - NFL.com

If John Skelton doesn't do well, the Cardinals may be in a tizzy about their QB situation. Kolb hasn't looked good, and if he misses any significant time in training camp it won't help. I'd trade Hoyer for Senio Kelemete and the Cardinals 2013 2nd round pick, just to help them out.

Boy Kolb is just an injury magnet...

One theory to contemplate is the thought that teams may tend to be slightly more cautious throwing around draft picks as a lesson learned from the Cards poor choice in trades re:Kolb, but that's just one small angle of it. Regardless, I still don't see someone offering a 3rd for Hoyer, let alone a 2nd. I think that is wishful thinking from some in our fanbase.

I think that Skelton is a much better suited QB for that team personally.

 

[supafly]

I thought, prior to him getting traded to NY, that the Pats should have considered trading Hoyer for Tebow. That would have netted them a back-up QB until Mallett is ready, a guy who could be a shortage yardage back, and a great leader. For Denver, they would have gotten their back-up incase of a Manning injury. Obviously, this all now moot, but that's what I would have done.

If they could get a 3rd round or better, I think they'd take it. They would need a QB to get hurt from another team, or Hoyer to absolutely kill it in pre-season.

I think that you have some good thoughts, but I wouldn't have personally wanted Tebow as a backup QB role here. His overall QB mechanics are just pitiful, even though he is a very good athlete who can run the ball effectively and with heart.

The position itself is so extremely important in the case of someone being able to step in and know the offense, not to mention lead us to possible victory. That is why I value Hoyer in THIS system much, much more than I would anywhere else; and that is not necessarily a knock on his overall talent.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I see that half of it - but what if Brady isn't hurt? What if garbage time and pre season is all there is this year? Hoyer will be gone in '13 it's almost certain.

And he will have been a fine #2 QB in a diffcult to master system for 4 years and the cost of zero draft picks and for roughly $3M. Bill will gladly take that value and return on little more than sweat equity any time.

If it were me, I'd have Mallett as #2 for garbage time, but if they really need to play, BB chooses the one most ready at that moment. Why give Hoyer reps when he'll likely be gone next year?

Because reps here are earned. And careers are on the line and the last thing you want to do unless you're forced to is send someone out there who can't play the most important position on the offense at nearly the level the rest of them are because he could get someone killed.

As for a trade, they couldn't get anything for Hoyer before camp - or anything decent. Unless he gets as much time as Cassel this year, he's not going to get anything like a 2nd rounder (mentioned elsewhere).

And again, that's OK. Bill would have let Matt walk for his service too, but the planets were aligned for him to go either to Denver or KC so he was able to rationalize tagging him and trading him. That could happen with Hoyer, too, although I guarante you Bill would not be thrilled with the tradeoff...which would be Hoyer having to start several games here.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I think that you have some good thoughts, but I wouldn't have personally wanted Tebow as a backup QB role here. His overall QB mechanics are just pitiful, even though he is a very good athlete who can run the ball effectively and with heart.

The position itself is so extremely important in the case of someone being able to step in and know the offense, not to mention lead us to possible victory. That is why I value Hoyer in THIS system much, much more than I would anywhere else; and that is not necessarily a knock on his overall talent.

No, he doesn't. Tebow is a gimmick. He's not even the #2 QB of the JETS for a reason. He can't run their offense any more than he could run Denver's, which is why they gladly traded him to someone desperate for attention and an alternative offense.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I agree Mallett is still a little medium-rare on the inside. But this staff made an NFL starter out of Matt Cassell who never played a single game in college, and then led the Pats to the playoffs in 2008.

Hoyer is a ready-now QB who deserves some snaps. Patriots tried to move him before the draft, because they know he's readier than some of the scrubs starting at QB today.

Here's my bet for a team in need of some QB depth: San Diego Chargers: Who will be the backup quarterback in 2012? : San Diego Chargers

Anyone contemplating JP Losman and Jeff Garcia (lol!) is obviously desperate.

Amazingly most folks here wanted Cassel traded to Walmart. Luckily he wasn't. Cassel was a top recruit stuck behind a couple of other top recruits at USC. He may have been the more talented of the 3. He certainly had the better work ethic. He was probably capable of backing Brady up as a rookie, but Flutie was here. He chased him into retirement in a season. And they didn't try to trade Hoyer before the draft. He was tendered as a RFA and no one was willing to part with a 2nd to sign him. And considering how Mallett is performing it's a good thing. Mallett is already losing reps because the team is beginning to hone in on getting itself ready for the season.

I know Bill and his player personnel director have been talking Mallett up. Apparently he has made some progress in his development since last season, which he would have had to or they'd have cut him. He hasn't made enough to overtake Hoyer. His next challenge will be to hold off whomever they draft or sign next season. And if he can't he will be history here. He's not a natural fit for this system, and that is what you have to be to back up Brady. He might be a fit for a simpler scheme, and I think they hoped he would show enough in pre season last year or in camp this year to flip him for an extra pick. Teams like Philly find it easier to showcase a guy like Kolb. Bill can't bring himself to engage in that BS because he's too focused on winning.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

I respectfully disagree here. I think that Hoyer has a lot of experience in this system, and as someone else pointed out--could indeed lead them to a playoff berth for sure, even if it were a WC slot.

I honestly don't see Mallett being able to do that at this point in time anyway.

I wouldn't trade Hoyer for anything less than a 2nd, and that is not likely happening (nor is a 3rd or 4th in my opinion).

Its sad that some fans still think the team cant win without Tommy. I wonder how many so called fans disappear when Tom retires?

Either way, I agree with ya. Hoyer looks more poised in the pocket than Cassel did, and look how that season turned out. I'm sure others would point out that missing the playoffs proves im wrong, but I was proud of how the team did that year.

 

[NSPF]

Brady goes down with an injury and is out for the season in week 1.

With Hoyer at QB: Hoyer proves himself to be a worthy NFL QB, with an easy schedule and a talented offense, the Pats go 12-4 and are the #2 seed.

With Mallett at Qb: Pats offense implodes, go 8-8, miss playoffs.

Hoyer is valuable and we need him IMO, can't trade him away since Mallett clearly isn't ready.

What, did you run a simulation, or are you going off camp reports?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

He was probably capable of backing Brady up as a rookie, but Flutie was here. He chased him into retirement in a season.

The Patriots actually drafted Cassel first and then signed Flutie with the specific intent of having him help mentor Cassel (ditto with Testaverde the next year, and much as they did with Crumpler in 2010).

I think they hoped he would show enough in pre season last year or in camp this year to flip him for an extra pick.

I don't think that idea was truly on BB"s mind. I think the thought process was more like this: "Holy ****. A QB who should have been drafted in the top 10 is still available in the third round?" The mere chance that he *could* be the next TFB was simply too great to pass up.

 

[RobertWeathers]

If lineman keep dropping like flies and Waters decides to stay home they may need to trade for someone.

 

[doesntmatter1]

I would be pissed if they trade hoyer. I have unrational faith in his game. Whenever Brady plays like garbage i for some weird reason feel that if you just throw hoyer in it everything would turn out just fine.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The Patriots actually drafted Cassel first and then signed Flutie with the specific intent of having him help mentor Cassel (ditto with Testaverde the next year, and much as they did with Crumpler in 2010).



I don't think that idea was truly on BB"s mind. I think the thought process was more like this: "Holy ****. A QB who should have been drafted in the top 10 is still available in the third round?" The mere chance that he *could* be the next TFB was simply too great to pass up.

Sure it was. Same deal with KOC. No value at the position, no one interested in trading for the pick, a dearth of QB candidates on the horizen and lots of demand, Bill has always wanted to do what Ron Wolf and others had been able to do by developing marketable talent at the position, needed a developmental QB in the pipeline anyway (which probably cost us grabbing a kid like McElroy on day 3 who had Brady backup written all over him and is now being wasted and probably ruined performing for that circus act in the swamp).

Mallett at first glance is about as un Brady as you get. More like the next Drew Bledsoe - tall and a big arm. And FWIW while Mallett's arm hinted at a possible first round talent his overall scouting assessment was never as a potential top ten. There were plenty of questions about his game that went beyond character or his potential would have trumped it. Inconsistent mechanics, slow delivery, decision making, erratic accuracy, processing speed, pedigree (all of Petrino's QB's put up numbers in college and none made it at the next level hinting that Petrino's system simply facilitated QB production).

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Bedard tweets that Brady had a visit from his new guru, former MLB pitcher Tom House, who worked with Brady and Hoyer after practice.

 

[patsfan13]

Since Hoyer will be gon at the end of the year, the ideal situation would be if Mallett showed he can be the #2, trade Hoyer to get a pick and free up a roster spot this year.

Everything will hinge on how Mallett performs in the scrimmages and preseason games, plus injuries that impact a team's QB situation.

 

[s3antana5757]

I think that you have some good thoughts, but I wouldn't have personally wanted Tebow as a backup QB role here. His overall QB mechanics are just pitiful, even though he is a very good athlete who can run the ball effectively and with heart.

The position itself is so extremely important in the case of someone being able to step in and know the offense, not to mention lead us to possible victory. That is why I value Hoyer in THIS system much, much more than I would anywhere else; and that is not necessarily a knock on his overall talent.

You're going to lose Hoyer at the end of the season, so why not get something for him? With Hoyer, Tebow, or Mallett at QB, the Pats aren't a SB team. Why not get a guy who could fill a role?

I agree that Tebow is not a QB at the moment. But, with a few years behind TFB, with no pressure or expectation that he might start like he's getting in New York, he can develop those QB skills. I don't think he would be a long-term answer at QB, but you can give him a few plays, he can be a short yardage RB or HB, and provide some added value to the team. Tebow's intangibles are what make him valuable IMO.