Another look at the coverage in the secondary

[Ivan]

You two are overstating it. To infer from Dennard's superior play out the outside that he will be hands-down better in the slot is a leap. I think he is ready to overshadow Arrington, but he's going to have a tough competition for it. Playing in the crowded spaces in the middle of the field is a different animal from working in isolation on the outside. Arrington has bottled-up Wes Welker and Victor Cruz quite well and is quite adept in the run game, but he lacks Dennard's ball skills and can get beat in open space.

Aspects of the skillsets that are best suited to outside CB or the slot are different. Outside cornerbacks require greater speed and ball skills, whereas slot CBs require more short-area quickness and exceptionally fluid hips. That's not to say that you can't use ball skills on the inside, but if a player can't handle an inside-outside cut effectively, ball skills aren't going to save you. This is far from a done deal and it's unfair to both players to say that Dennard will be a disappointment if he can't beat out Arrington for a role as slot CB. The truth is that there is going to be quite a battle for playing time in the secondary, especially once Browner comes back from suspension.

Right on the money, really good post.

 

[patfanken]

I agree that we will be playing multiple coverage schemes, though I think man coverage will be the dominant theme. I also agree that there will be a lot of pre- and post-snap coverage adjustments and disguise, though it will work both ways (for example, the Pats may start out in what looks like a cover 2 shell, and then drop a robber down and play press-man coverage with cover 1 or 3). It will be very interesting to try and figure out all the variants and permutations.

One of my favorite coverages for stopping short to mid range passing offenses that thrive so well these days is one that Rex Ryan threw at the Pats in the 2010 playoffs. That was when he rushed only 3 or 4, kept 5 men under in what amounted to a press zone.

What made it so effective was his ability to disguise the rush, so even though the Jets only rushed 3 or 4, they either overloaded a side, or made it look like a big blitz was coming. It really threw off Brady's timing, so even when he reset and had time, he was never comfortable with his secondary reads. Seattle ran something very similar to that in the Superbowl, though the DL was pretty much a straight 4 man rush that was effective at hurrying Manning, even though they only got one sack.

There is a simple blue print to slow down Manning and Brady. You only need enough pressure to make them "feel it" and thus make quick throws into areas you have flooded underneath. Even when they are completed they are for reasonable 6-12yd gains. This strategy forces the QB to be very accurate,and wildly consistent and doesn't penalize the defense much for being beaten occasionally. It forces the QB and receivers to BOTH correctly read the disguised coverages and execute several times in order to score. Also if either makes a mistake into that kind of defense, they can often result in a TO.

The Defense can be beaten by it requires perfect execution by a lot of people over a long period of time. Its a hard thing to do for most teams. The best way to stop it is with a strong power running game and a few big plays by your receivers. Gronk is a player capable of being that guy, so is Dobson, I hope by playoff time. It also requires your QB to have patience. IIRC Brady had open RB's all that game and rarely threw them the ball.
The key to that game was Ryan going from, blitz happy man coverage, to disguised minimal rushes and maximum zone coverages. Hate it but had to tip your cap for that VERY painful game.

I see us using that D or some form of that 5 man under coverage a lot this year. It is to our benefit to force teams to have to either run or go deep against us. With Revis and MCourty, that plays into one of the D's strengths.

 

[Brady6]

Personally, I have not concluded that Browner is going to play CB. I think the team is going to go through the first four weeks of the season with Dennard at RCB and Harmon at SAF and when Browner returns he will replace the weakest link in the starting lineup.

I still really like the idea of this secondary.

LCB – Revis
RCB – Dennard
Slot CB – Ryan
Dime CB – Arrington
FS – McCourty
SS – Browner

 

[Brady6]

2014 Kyle Arrington = 2012/2013 Marquise Cole – special teams player and depth cornerback.

 

[Marqui]

Brandon Browner is not a safety.

 

[BobDigital]

My main problem with Arrington is this. There is a huge hole in his game and everyone knows it. Lets say we play him in the slot. Well that is fine cause Arrington is great in the slot generally. However what if the play is run to have the slot guy go inside then turn up field. Arrington is going to get burned and the safeties will get split. I have heard on several occasions in OTAs where Boyce played in the slot only to turn up field and split the safeties for a touch down. 2 of those times i know for sure it was against Arrington.

I have seen other teams fo this to Arrington a little as well with good results. The reason it is not done more is because most slot WRs are not really guys who can turn it up field well either. However against a team like Seattle they will be able to exploit this easily.

 

[Brady6]

Brandon Browner is not a safety.

Brandon Browner has played safety in his career.

 

[bigfandan]

Arrington is not going to get the most snaps in the slot. I know in 2012 after he absolutely sucked playing outside he was moved inside to the slot and played well and fans annotated him the GREATEST SLOT CB in the NFL but that is not actually true. He is a better CB in the slot than he is when he is outside, but he sucks as bad as any CB in the NFL when he is outside so that is not exactly saying much.

Dennard is significantly better than Arrington, they are not even in the same category, in my opinion Dennard is one of the most undervalued players on the team amongst the fans and posters on this board. He allowed a 50.75% completion percentage, and 79.8 QB rating against last season despite playing through knee surgery, he was equally impressive in his rookie season. Dennard is a top 50 cornerback in the NFL, I would even say top 40 but I will be conservative and say 50, he is not going to be on the bench while Kyle Arrington is on the field, not next season, not ever.

Something needs to be said about BB handing AA that fat contract knowing all of limitations. He is 2nd highest paid CB of team after Revis, and he should not be.

 

[Brady6]

Something needs to be said about BB handing AA that fat contract knowing all of limitations. He is 2nd highest paid CB of team after Revis, and he should not be.

2013 was not a good free agent period for the Patriots. They overspent on their slot WR with Amendola and their slot CB with Arrington. I do not know what prompted that except it appears Belichick overvalued the slot position both offensively and defensively.

 

[strngplyr]

Brandon Browner has played safety in his career.

So has Matthew Slater, doesn't make them safeties.

 

[Brady6]

So has Matthew Slater, doesn't make them safeties.

That is a weak comparison if ever. Browner has the size and skillset to play safety at an extremely high level. If you don't think he is capable of playing safety you have not watched enough of his tape.

 

[Ivan]

So has Matthew Slater, doesn't make them safeties.

I googled it and could find no evidence Browner has played safety. Beyond that this is the best analysis I have seen of it: http://nesn.com/2014/03/brandon-browner-projects-at-cornerback-not-safety-for-patriots-mailbag/

I have gone from a belief he would play safety to the view that Belichick is going to use him as a corner. Belichick's approach to free agents has always been to outline how he wants to use them and according to browner they have never spoken to him about playing safety.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Have we seen Dennard in extended time as a slot corner?

 

[Ivan]

Have we seen Dennard in extended time as a slot corner?

Nope, that is another projection on our part. I am actually fascinated by the flexibility of this defense and can't wait to see how Belichick and Patricia use them.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Nope, that is another projection on our part. I am actually fascinated by the flexibility of this defense and can't wait to see how Belichick and Patricia use them.

I made the same point in another thread, only for Deus to . . . well, be himself. The fact is that this defense at the second and third levels, respectively, has so much versatility and I think we'll see guys line up all over the place from week-to-week. That's exciting. That's one of the things for which the SB teams were known. They were versatile and that was an added dimension that frustrated opposing QB's and OC's.

I can hardly contain my excitement for the defense if health problems don't become an issue like last season. I even think Harmon is going to be a big surprise to many this season just based on how mature he looked in spot duty last season. I'm interested and excited to see how they'll use Ryan, as he should be free to be a ball-hawking type in the secondary at different positions. He could even make a strong play for the slot corner spot, since we're doing projections. Training camp is going to be so much fun this year.

 

[Deus Irae]

I made the same point in another thread, only for Deus to . . . well, be himself.

No, you gave people grief for supposedly "complaining" that there was too much DB depth, which nobody was doing. Now you're going at me in another thread.

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

 

[PatsBoy12]

One thing I am interested to see is how much of a leash Arrington gets this season if he underwhelms, which he has done at times. There were occasions where he was taken out of games without it being injury-related last season. Does that happen again or earlier in games than last season? BB certainly has the bodies to do so. Ryan is better all-around, IMO. Does he take snaps away from Arrington? Do they view him as a slot type? We'll know more in training camp.

Overall, I think this is a season, unlike so many in the past few, where BB has the horses. That was what many of us were saying he was lacking during the seasons when the D was being gashed by opposing QB's and ranking so low in yards allowed. We have a unit that will presumably be better in PPG allowed AND yards allowed. They'll no longer seem like mutually exclusive things. In other words, one can field a defense that is good at both of those things.

 

[strngplyr]

I googled it and could find no evidence Browner has played safety. Beyond that this is the best analysis I have seen of it: http://nesn.com/2014/03/brandon-browner-projects-at-cornerback-not-safety-for-patriots-mailbag/

I have gone from a belief he would play safety to the view that Belichick is going to use him as a corner. Belichick's approach to free agents has always been to outline how he wants to use them and according to browner they have never spoken to him about playing safety.

He played a few snaps at safety in TC for the Broncos back in 2005 or whatever. He was a CB in the CFL and his legitimate NFL career though.

 

[strngplyr]

That is a weak comparison if ever. Browner has the size and skillset to play safety at an extremely high level. If you don't think he is capable of playing safety you have not watched enough of his tape.

Browner's skillset does not translate to safety, though, let alone at an extremely high level. He has the size, not the athletic ability.

His skillset translates to brutalizing receivers at the line and destroying the timing of their routes, basically making them no longer an option for the QB in the time he has, it isn't his coverage that made him succeed, it's his disruption.

I don't know what tape you're watching that makes you think he should be our safety.

We signed a cornerback, he's playing cornerback, we didn't sign him to a multiyear deal to play a new position, and don't use drafting DMC and moving to safety as a counter.

Edit: And I'll openly admit that I was part of the BB to safety camp early on due to his size, my mindset changed pretty quickly after learning more about him, his skillset, and where hes most likely to project to in our defense.

 

[Sciz]

I googled it and could find no evidence Browner has played safety.

He played safety during training camp in 2005 with the Broncos. Nine years ago, and never in a regular season game. So technically he's played safety, but I'd hardly consider it any amount of experience.