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AFC East Top 25, per Erik Frenz of the Boston Globe

Discussion in 'NFL Football Forum' started by jmt57, May 12, 2013.

  1. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Re: AFC East Top 25, per Erik Frenz of the Boston Globe; Pats LB Jerod Mayo #13

    How is Mayo creating pressure almost 20% of the time when rushing a bad thing?

    The number of rushes will also likely be increased this season with our secondary being much more in place from the get-go + the ability to play more man coverage.

    I don't think anyone is saying that their responsibilities are the same, only that it's a good thing that Mayo has reached the same kind of success when rushing the passer in much more limited opportunities.

    Obviously we all know that they are two different players with different responsibilities.

    The bottom line is that Mayo seems to be getting more opportunities to rush the passer, and has been showing more signs of being a playmaker. That may increase even more this season.
     
  2. primetime

    primetime Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #18 Jersey

    Re: AFC East Top 25, per Erik Frenz of the Boston Globe; Pats LB Jerod Mayo #13

    It's not a bad thing, but it's a dishonest use of statistics because the pressure was generated under different circumstances, and the sample size is much lower. It's like saying that Matt Cassel (5.4 yards per carry on 27 attempts) is a comparable runner to Jamaal Charles (5.3 yards per carry on 285 attempts).

    If you want to compare him to someone, compare him to other middle linebackers.
     
  3. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Re: AFC East Top 25, per Erik Frenz of the Boston Globe; Pats LB Jerod Mayo #13

    Fair enough. That's certainly a valid point.
     
  4. primetime

    primetime Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #18 Jersey

    Re: AFC East Top 25, per Erik Frenz of the Boston Globe; Pats LB Jerod Mayo #13

    I think he actually compares pretty favorably to other middle linebackers, for what it's worth. I don't have PFF access (which is where those stats are coming from), but their non-paywall article has the best pass rushing linebackers (as opposed to 'edge players') over the three seasons from 2009 to 2011 and the best only generates pressure around 22% of the time. Obviously, Mayo only did this for one year and not over three but I think it would have been a better point to say his pass rushing was in the top tier of linebackers (since PFF separates out edge players and true linebackers) rather than compare him to a radically different player.

    But I think that's confirming what we already know - Mayo's a very good blitzer. I think it's difficult from a strategic standpoint to blitz him more, though.
     
  5. tasmlab

    tasmlab PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    1., 2., 3., must be Brady, Gronk, Wilfork if I had to guess.
     
  6. primetime

    primetime Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #18 Jersey

    Would guess Cameron Wake is #2, Gronk and Wilfork likely 3 and 4.
     
  7. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    AFC East Top 25, per Erik Frenz of the Boston Globe; Jets C Nick Mangold #12

    Here is the link to Mangold being number 12; a fair amount of weight is given to productivity prior to last season - as well as the competition that he was facing.

    AFC East top 25, No. 12: Jets C Nick Mangold - Going Deep - Boston.com


    When head coach Eric Mangini and general manager Mike Tannenbaum took over with the New York Jets, center Nick Mangold was drafted in the first round to be a building block for the offense. In 2009, when Mangini was jettisoned and Rex Ryan was named the new head coach, Mangold was still a building block. Now, in 2012, with John Idzik taking over as GM, Mangold is still a building block.

    He was voted to four consecutive Pro Bowls and was named first-team All-Pro back-to-back years in 2009 and 2010 as the anchor for a rush attack that ranked first and fourth in the NFL, respectively.

    Pro Football Focus has docked Mangold for three or fewer sacks allowed in each of the past five seasons, while consistently facing top talents like Bills defensive tackle Kyle Williams, Patriots defensive tackle Vince Wilfork and Dolphins defensive tackle Randy Starks, all three of whom appear on this list.​
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2013
  8. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    AFC East Top 25, per Erik Frenz of the Globe; Jets LT D'Brickashaw Ferguson #11

    Egads, back-to-back Jets on this list.

    AFC East top 25, No. 11: Jets LT D'Brickashaw Ferguson - Going Deep - Boston.com



    Few offensive tackles have been as good for as long as Ferguson, while getting as little recognition.

    Not only has he never missed a start, but according to Pro Football Focus, he hasn't even missed a snap since Week 17 of 2008. That's not a misprint, that's 4,830 snaps from 2009-2012.

    He helped block for a rushing attack that ranked first and fourth in 2009 and 2010 respectively. In the passing game, he was the best on an offensive line that allowed quarterback Mark Sanchez to be pressured on just 23.8 percent of drop-backs those years. He ranked in the top 10 offensive tackles in PFF's pass-blocking efficiency four of the past five years.

    The Jets have a lot of questions on offense, but if Ferguson plays at the same level he's shown throughout his career, left tackle should not be one of those questions.​
     
  9. efrenz

    efrenz Rookie

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    Re: AFC East Top 25, per Erik Frenz of the Boston Globe; Pats LB Jerod Mayo #13

    Hey everyone, it's Erik. Figured I'd drop in to answer some questions. I'll start with this one.

    Von Miller played SLB in the Broncos 4-3, Jerod Mayo plays WLB in the Patriots 4-3, so it's not really as apples-to-oranges as you're making it sound. I was not saying he is as good of a pass-rusher as Miller, merely pointing out the fact that he created pressure on a consistent basis. I also understand the bit about the sample size, but that's why I added the first part about, "The Patriots didn't send him on the pass-rush very often in 2012..."

    I also think we have to let go of the idea that Mayo is an ILB, he hasn't played the position for two years now.
     
  10. efrenz

    efrenz Rookie

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    Re: AFC East Top 25, per Erik Frenz of the Globe; Jets LT D'Brickashaw Ferguson #11

    Hey, they had to be on the list somewhere, right? Wasn't going to do a list without any Jets and there are only three listed so far.
     
  11. efrenz

    efrenz Rookie

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    Wendell is not in the same league as Mangold. Period. Ask 10 scouts they'll tell you the same thing. In a year or two, if Wendell plays well and Mangold slips, we can talk about it then.

    Love the work Evan Silva does but the link you provided doesn't rank centers, it ranks OL as a whole, so I'm not sure why you think it supports your argument. I don't think anyone would argue that the Patriots OL as a whole is better than the Jets, but that has more to do with the five as a whole than the talents of the top two OL on each line.
     
  12. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    AFC East Top 25, per Erik Frenz of the Globe; Miami C Mike Pouncey #10

    AFC East top 25, No. 10: Dolphins C Mike Pouncey - Going Deep - Boston.com


    The Dolphins offensive line could have fallen apart when the team lost left tackle Jake Long for the season in Week 13. Center Mike Pouncey is the glue that held them together, and his teammates certainly agree.

    It may be because he is asked to carry out the duties of both a center and a guard. Not only does he call the protections and snap the ball, but he is frequently seen pulling out in space after the snap, an act of quickness and agility not commonly seen among centers.

    Pouncey helped pave the way for Reggie Bush's two best seasons as a true running back, and although there are concerns about the Dolphins offensive line as a unit, very few have any doubt that Pouncey will continue to be a leader for the unit.

    ---

    Bonus reading

    Alen Dumonjic of The Score breaks down the versatility Pouncey put on display, as well as some high remarks for Pouncey from Patriots nose tackle Vince Wilfork.​
     
  13. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    AFC East Top 25, per Erik Frenz of the Globe; Miami S Reshad Jones #9

    AFC East top 25, No. 9: Dolphins S Reshad Jones - Going Deep - Boston.com



    The Dolphins secondary has been through a lot of change in the past 10 months, losing both cornerbacks Vontae Davis and Sean Smith, but in 2012, safety Reshad Jones was the glue that kept it from falling apart.

    Jones led the Dolphins with four interceptions last year, and also deflected nine passes, tied for second on the team. According to Pro Football Focus, he allowed a passer rating of just 38 on throws into his coverage, which ranked fifth among all NFL safeties. He also gave up just one touchdown into his coverage, against Titans tight end Jared Cook.

    Despite switching from free safety to strong safety, Jones improved in leaps and bounds this past season. If his career trajectory continues on this path, he'll remain one of the league's top safeties for years to come.​
     
  14. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    AFC East Top 25, per Erik Frenz of the Globe; Bills WR Stevie Johnson #8

    AFC East top 25, No. 8: Bills WR Stevie Johnson - Going Deep - Boston.com



    Stevie Johnson erupted onto the scene in his third year in the NFL, and was just the ninth player in NFL history to log at least 80 receptions, 1,000 yards and 10 touchdowns in his third year. Glancing at the list, he's in some hallowed company with the likes of Kellen Winslow Sr., Antonio Freeman, Keyshawn Johnson, Antonio Gates and others.

    Stevie has been consistently productive since then, and ranks eighth in receptions, 11th in yards and ninth in touchdowns over the past three years. He has not created many big plays, though. In 2012, only 12 of his 79 receptions went for a total of 20 yards or more, and he was targeted deeper than 20 yards on just 11.8 percent of passes thrown his direction, the second-lowest in the NFL (via Pro Football Focus).

    There is one hole in his game, however, when it comes to dropping the ball. He had 13 drops in 2010 and 11 drops in 2012, and his rate of dropped passes was among the 10 worst in the NFL.

    He doesn't have the skill set of a true No. 1 wide receiver -- the size and speed most people look for in an outside threat -- but he has plenty of physical tools in terms of quickness, balance and body control, and along with some of the best route-running skills in the NFL and a great sense of how to get open against certain looks, Johnson is easily one of the league's most underrated pass-catchers.


    Did you know?

    Johnson has started more games at wide receiver than any seventh-round draft pick since Kevin Walter in 2003 (91 career starts).


    Bonus reading

    Cian Fahey provides probably the most in-depth breakdown of an individual player I've ever seen.​
     
  15. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    AFC East Top 25, per Erik Frenz of the Globe; Bills S Jairus Byrd #7

    AFC East top 25, No. 7: Bills S Jairus Byrd - Going Deep - Boston.com


    What more could you ask for out of a free safety than what Jairus Byrd has given the Bills in his four years with the team?

    He is not only the Bills best defensive back, with a team-leading five interceptions in 2012, but he is also the AFC East's best safety -- not just for his sideline-to-sideline range, but his uncanny ability to diagnose plays and get to the right spot in a hurry.

    According to Pro Football Focus, Byrd allowed a passer rating of just 56.9 on the season. He was targeted 21 times in coverage and allowed 156 yards (9.8 yards per reception) without giving up a single touchdown.

    New Bills defensive coordinator Mike Pettine will love Byrd's skill set, as it will allow him to run the exotic blitz packages the Jets were known for while he was the coordinator in New York. If the Bills defense creates more pressure up front, that could lead to even bigger things for Byrd.


    Did you know?

    Byrd was the first rookie safety to lead the league in interceptions since Vikings safety Orlando Thomas in 1995. Both players had nine picks, and both were selected with the 42nd overall pick of their respective drafts.


    Bonus reading

    Spotrac estimates Byrd could command a contract in the neighborhood of five years and $45 million when he becomes a free-agent in 2014.​
     
  16. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    AFC East Top 25, per Erik Frenz of the Globe; Bills RB C.J. Spiller #6

    Spiller is a guy that gives me an uneasy feeling when he gets the ball, playing against the Patriots. Thankfully the Bills don't use him a whole lot against the Pats, because he is usually fairly productive. In six games against the Pats Spiller has 222 yards rushing on just 41 carries, for an average of 5.4 yards per carry. He has 16 receptions for 163 yards and two touchdowns, and has a third TD against the Pats on a kickoff return; he is averaging 26.2 yards on his 11 kick returns against the Patriots.



    AFC East top 25, No. 6: Bills RB C.J. Spiller - Going Deep - Boston.com


    Very few players made as big of an impact while being as shunned in the game plan as Spiller.

    His big play ability cannot be overstated. He earned nearly 40 percent of his rushing yards on carries of 15 yards or more, the third-highest percentage in the league according to Pro Football Focus.

    [​IMG]

    He had the third most total missed tackles in the league (66) despite limited touches, and by PFF's standards, he was the most elusive back in the NFL.

    Spiller's production could increase with more opportunities in what will likely be a run-heavy offense with Doug Marrone as the head coach. If he's able to build on his stellar 2012 campaign, he'll land in the top five next year without question.


    Did you know?

    Spiller's average yards per carry in 2012 was higher than Vikings running back Adrian Peterson's all season long, until Week 17.


    Bonus reading

    Not reading, but viewing. Jonah Javad of WGRZ-2 in Buffalo conducted an interview with Spiller where the running back shared some deep thoughts on SpongeBob Squarepants.​
     
  17. patsinthesnow

    patsinthesnow PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Re: AFC East Top 25, per Erik Frenz of the Globe; Bills RB C.J. Spiller #6

    Spiller is a stud, showing that labeling someone a bust after 1-2 seasons isn't always the best idea. The Bills are stupid to only give him 207 carries last year. If I had to pick a RB to have not including Peterson, he would be on the short list.

    5th in the league with 1,703 rushing/receiving yards on just 250 touches; the Bills need to feed him and S. Johnson the ball if they start Manuel.
     
  18. primetime

    primetime Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Re: AFC East Top 25, per Erik Frenz of the Boston Globe; Pats LB Jerod Mayo #13

    It is apples-to-oranges, though, because a huge chunk of Miller's pass rushing comes as a three-point stance defensive end on passing downs. Mayo never plays with his hand on the ground, and he plays in the middle of the field in sub packages - which is the defense most often used on passing downs, and the one from which he usually blitzes.
     
  19. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady In the Starting Line-Up

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    Okay, so who are we missing, and am I an idiot for not knowing the answer to this?

    Top 5 Remaining Players, in some order after Brady

    Brady
    Wake
    Wilfork
    Gronkowski

    Is there an extremely obvious player who I am just overlooking? I went through each team in my head and can't think of another player that jumps out. The only other players I'm left with don't seem to warrant top-5.

    Leodis McKelvin- I'm thinking he is probably the choice, but if so, I would strongly disagree. Despite being a great return man, he has never been a very good cornerback. I think there can be an argument that a guy like Slater isn't much below McKelvin. Top 5?

    Richie Incognito- made the pro bowl last year and is considered to be a top guard, but top 5 overall player in the division?

    Fred Jackson- 32 year-old running back whose best days are behind him.

    Paul Soliai- Pro Bowl appearance due to Ngata injury.

    Sean Smith- Good corner but my understanding is nowhere near elite

    Aqib Talib- Seems like too many question marks to put him up there.
     
  20. Get it shawtaay

    Get it shawtaay Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    #32 Jersey

    Mo Wilkerson has to be the last one imo.
     

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