AFC East Roundtable: First Quarter Division Awards

[Ian]

From article:
"It’s easy to hand the MVP to Tom Brady given his incredible start and the Patriots 3-0 record, but given the amount of talent New England has offensively compared to the rest of the Division"
Real world talent or on paper? On paper we are pretty weak (except QB) vs Jets, Dolphins, Bills. In reality we are much more.

Brady, Gronk, Edelman are a better trio than any within the Division - so that's what I was thinking when I was to trying to come up with writing which AFC East offensive player had been the most valuable to his team to this point in the season, and I was trying to hide my obvious "Patriots" bias.

 

[patfanken]

I wrote my part of that based on who I thought has done the better coaching job to this point, and again was trying to write it thinking outside the box. We know how good Belichick is, but my reasoning was I never expected New York to be 3-1 at this point or playing anywhere near as well as they are and out of the four coaches, the Jets are the biggest (positive) surprise out of the group.

No worries patfanken, at the end of the day - I know who the best coach is

Like I said, I was just trying to be a little more open-minded on this one. Definitely didn't expect this one to get as much play as it has.

Don't take heart, Ian. I know YOU knew. The thing is that at first it's easy to think of Bowles as a new HC who inherited a bad team, but if you look over the kind of talent he has at his disposal, the talent he gets to coach isn't any worse than anyone else in the division.

When you think about it, all the Jets lack in front line talent is a quality receiving TE and a "franchise" QB. Well three quarters of the league is looking for a "franchise QB. and Fitzpatrick is as good as any. He has had some very good games over the years, including a couple against the Pats. I think he's good enough that if they put the right parts around him and he gets the kind of coaching that minimizes his weaknesses he can be good enough to get a team far in the playoffs. Kind of like a Grossman, Hastelbeck, Brunnell etc At worst he gives them an adequate filler until they can find a permanent replacement\

I think that the Bills have as good if not slightly better talent, but Bowles gives the Jets better leadership, at lest at this point. Actually you never know just how good a HC is until he sees some extended adversity. So the jury is still out on Bowles, but so far so good.

 

[Tony2046]

Don't get me started. The fact Hoyer can't get it together and play consistently well is maddening. Watching last night's game, I knew he wouldn't have it in him to bring them back and beat them... just a feeling I had. Drives me bonkers. I wasn't a fan of Mallet, and Cassell is a mystery in terms of why he looked so good here in terms of his decision-making vs seeing how he's played elsewhere. Just goes to show you the importance of coaching and I thought maybe there in Houston one of those guys might thrive. But I'd like to think Hoyer will improve under O'Brien, but watching him is just so frustrating...

I just want him to grab the reigns and do well. One can hope anyway

I would say Cassel lost 5 more games than Brady did the year prior with practically the same team. He was good and definitely coaching but that team would have been a solid 14-2 team including a garbage loss in the last game of the year with Brady. IMHO.

 

[Ian]

I think that the Bills have as good if not slightly better talent, but Bowles gives the Jets better leadership, at lest at this point. Actually you never know just how good a HC is until he sees some extended adversity. So the jury is still out on Bowles, but so far so good.

I agree and if anything, it just accentuates just how bad a coach Rex Ryan is. He's completely changed my perception because I thought he wasn't anywhere near as inept as he is. The quotes from the last week just boggles your mind and then I just shake my head and think, "is he really that stupid?" ... and then he keeps talking

 

[Tony2046]

Brady, Gronk, Edelman are a better trio than any within the Division - so that's what I was thinking when I was to trying to come up with writing which AFC East offensive player had been the most valuable to his team to this point in the season, and I was trying to hide my obvious "Patriots" bias.

So basically you're grading on a curve?

Isn't the opposing teams pass rush negated by Brady's quick decision making coupled with getting rid of the ball in under 2 seconds? OR if you you traded Brady with Fitzy how would the Pats and Jets look then?

Fitzpatrick is not anyone's MVP. He is more likely the MAP of that team. Most Average Player. The Jets Defense handed Fitzy the ball 5 times and all he could muster up against the Plastic Curtain Colts Defense was 20 points.

You're killing me Ian......killing me.

 

[Tony2046]

I agree and if anything, it just accentuates just how bad a coach Rex Ryan is. He's completely changed my perception because I thought he wasn't anywhere near as inept as he is. The quotes from the last week just boggles your mind and then I just shake my head and think, "is he really that stupid?" ... and then he keeps talking

I'm not sold on Bowles yet. The Jets have not played anyone yet. The Bills have two losses which were to much stronger teams than the Jets have faced. The Giants started off poorly but they took a solid Cowboys team down to the wire and that was with Romo and Bryant. IIRC.

Right now I still think the Bills are the better team and will beat the Jets twice this year or at least split with them.

But you are right about Rex and his jibber jabber. The funny thing is I think he buys into his own bravado which isn't always a bad thing but he does build his team and fan base up too much.

 

[Ian]

So basically you're grading on a curve?

Isn't the opposing teams pass rush negated by Brady's quick decision making coupled with getting rid of the ball in under 2 seconds? OR if you you traded Brady with Fitzy how would the Pats and Jets look then?

Fitzpatrick is not anyone's MVP. He is more likely the MAP of that team. Most Average Player. The Jets Defense handed Fitzy the ball 5 times and all he could muster up against the Plastic Curtain Colts Defense was 20 points.

You're killing me Ian......killing me.

LOL - Listen, I had to come up with which player has been the most valuable to his team at this point and I was trying to think of someone other than Brady because it was too obvious.

The Bills? Nobody. The Dolphins? Awful. So that left me with looking at the Jets and it's a miracle they're 3-1 (I thought they'd be terrible despite Revis coming back), and Fitzpatrick has done more than could have been expected and with Geno out, they don't win 3 games without him.

 

[Ian]

But you are right about Rex and his jibber jabber. The funny thing is I think he buys into his own bravado which isn't always a bad thing but he does build his team and fan base up too much.

He really has lost his mind, and it's getting worse. He's getting into a pattern of justifying bad behavior with excuses and that's usually one of the first things we see in bad coaches, bosses, coworkers. Even worse to see it happen at the NFL level.

 

[upstater1]

Brady, Gronk, Edelman are a better trio than any within the Division - so that's what I was thinking when I was to trying to come up with writing which AFC East offensive player had been the most valuable to his team to this point in the season, and I was trying to hide my obvious "Patriots" bias.

But, since we're talking about Brady, you have to take him out of the equation. I do agree that I'd still take Gronk and Edelman over any other combo, but you have to admit you couldn't really laugh at some who preferred Charles Clay, Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods, Lesean McCoy over Gronkelman.

 

[Ian]

But, since we're talking about Brady, you have to take him out of the equation. I do agree that I'd still take Gronk and Edelman over any other combo, but you have to admit you couldn't really laugh at some who preferred Charles Clay, Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods, Lesean McCoy over Gronkelman.

I hear you. But it came down to which AFC East offensive player had been the most valuable to their team and it really came down - in my mind - to either Brady or Fitzpatrick and I was trying to come up with a different player since I had already seen a couple of the other drafts from the other guys and Brady was too obvious a choice coming from me. LOL, really hope no one here thinks I'd prefer Fitzpatrick over Brady.

I was pretty snarky in that part of it:

However, since we’re talking about who has been “most valuable” to the success of their offense, it’s hard not to hand the award to Jets QB Ryan Fitzpatrick at this point in the season, but, then again, that’s probably also why MVP awards aren’t handed out over four games.

... it should set up an interesting decision when Geno Smith is eventually healthy but make no mistake, the Jets likely wouldn’t be in this position without what Fitzpatrick has done thus far – ugly mustache and all.

So that's really more or less where I was going with it.

 

[Tony2046]

Best coach – Todd Bowles ??

I know you've already answered this but holy cow man.

When people say "think outside the box" that means.....

[_] -->Here...................................................................................................................................Not here-->.


Just giving you a hard time.

 

[Ian]

Best coach – Todd Bowles ??

I know you've already answered this but holy cow man.

When people say "think outside the box" that means.....

[_] -->Here...................................................................................................................................Not here-->.


Just giving you a hard time.

When we talked about the categories I was thinking "best coaching job" so far and Rex Ryan skewed my thoughts in that equation. Looking at the Bills and Jets through four games, Ryan made me see how much better Bowles was compared to him handling that group. Seeing what Bowles is getting out of that team compared to the mess they were while he was there is quite a difference and the way he handled the situation in the locker room with Smith going down and keeping them together well enough to make them a contender through four games I also thought was impressive.

But "Best Coach"? - That's a no-brainer

 

[jmt57]

LOL. @Ian getting the forum members all riled up.

Never thought I would see that day here...

 

[Ian]

LOL. @Ian getting the forum members all riled up.

Never thought I would see that day here...

LOL, that's what happens when I write something nice about the Jets, although I still tried to poke a little fun at them. But the Jets have that effect on all of us

This has been fun chatting with everyone tonight. I've laughed out loud a few times - wife keeps looking at me wondering if I'm beginning to finally lose it

 

[Tony2046]

When we talked about the categories I was thinking "best coaching job" so far and Rex Ryan skewed my thoughts in that equation. Looking at the Bills and Jets through four games, Ryan made me see how much better Bowles was compared to him handling that group. Seeing what Bowles is getting out of that team compared to the mess they were while he was there is quite a difference and the way he handled the situation in the locker room with Smith going down and keeping them together well enough to make them a contender through four games I also thought was impressive.

But "Best Coach"? - That's a no-brainer

Well.....on a positive note......I like these Roundtable discussions.

I understand where you were coming from....Pluto.......and I understand your reasoning.

Anyways sleep good and that was fun.

 

[JetFan79]

Count me among those who think that Todd Bowles is doing a very good job with the Jets this season. It unfortunately seems to me like the law of averages finally kicked in and the Jets have a guy who has brought some calmness and good sense to the Jets leadership. I am NOT very happy about it.

HOWEVER that being said , As good a job as he's done, I don't think its even close to what Bill has done with the Pats. I don't get this crap that the Jets have so much "less" talent than the Pats.

OL - The Jets aren't starting 3 rookies on the OL. In fact they have 2 perennial all pros and 3 other more than solid vets. Lets be honest and say only Volmer starts among their starting 5

WR - The Jets have 2 multi-season all pros in Marshall and Decker, plus a solid slot guy in Kerley. Pats Fans might take Edelman, Amendola and LaFell over them, but no one else in the league.

TE- Hooray, we win a position.

QB - We win again

RB - I like our guys, but Chris Ivory is the the best RB in the division right now and our guys aren't in the top 3

DL - This might be the best DL the Pats have had in a few years, but the Jets and Bills are the only 2 teams in the argument of who is the best DL in the division

DB- Do we even have to have this discussion?

LB- We probably have the best top 3

So will someone please explain to me why Bowles gets this "talent" pass, when in fact he has a very talented team.....certainly more talented (on an individual basis) than the Pats do. The Pats only win with Brady, Gronk, Collins, Hightower and 33-53 depth

Of course this only proves further how building a good football team involves a lot more than mere talent. In fact this should be a lesson plan for it. One we all need to relearn every now and then, so we don't sacrifice our souls on the altar of "pure talent"

It's Brady. Plain and simple. Dude is just that good.

Brady doesn't just give the QB comparison to NE. He's so darn good in the most important (by far) position on the field that he probably also overcomes our advantage at a whole different group like the DLine too.

I just hope come week 7, it's not enough to overcome advantages in the secondary and running game as well.

 

[Deflatemyballs]

Collins>revis. Collins has been an absolute force. The best linebacker in the league. Revis is playing well but he does get beat, had that 50 yard PI last week. He's still getting all the credit for the defense based on his name.

 

[goheels22002]

LOL, this was tough because the premise was MVP - ie: most valuable player and the one who they wouldn't be where they are without them. The Jets have just been so bad that it made me pick all three of those in each category Plus being the "Patriots guy" I was trying to be a little more fair and balanced

You guys ought to agree that you can't pick someone from your own team for these awards which would put everyone in the same boat.

Clearly Jets Coach Todd Bowles has done the best job by default. I'd pick Tyrod Taylor as the non-Pats Offensive MVP, Dolphins S Reshad Jones at Defensive MVP (he's just everywhere for Miami!), and Biggest Team Surprise is the Bills.

The Bills are a huge mystery. Great D on paper but they stink, while the offense is explosive with Tyrod Taylor at the controls. He's going to be a great NFL QB, I think.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

The real point is one I neglected to make. The point that me so pissed off enough to write my first post is that the perception of the Pats is that they are simply "better" than most teams, and ergo, have better players. That couldn't be further from the truth and totally demeans the effort that the players and coaches have made in building this team we so enjoy.

i think the Patriot Way has given into the Patriot Mystique. And not by people with professional football experience, but by us common fans (myself, not anyone that played much organized football).

People generally don't understand why the Patriots win. They look at the roster and compare talent and with the exception of a few positions, think their team is as good or better. However, we have the best QB to ever have played the game, probably the best TE (when all is said and done) and alot of guys who know how to play their roles based on having not only the best coach (possibly ever, but top 3 for sure). but, having a coach who has had the luxury of evolving his system for 15+ years when most coaches have to start over every 2-5 years.

BB has basically built a system where players who can rapidly process information are becoming superior athletes. He sees a majority of players having access to the same level of physical attributes (with few exceptions) and understands the edge is now coming from the mental aspect of the game. It seems so simple, yet most fans are still in a 1990's mindset about how football is being played.

 

[jah]

I agree and if anything, it just accentuates just how bad a coach Rex Ryan is. He's completely changed my perception because I thought he wasn't anywhere near as inept as he is. The quotes from the last week just boggles your mind and then I just shake my head and think, "is he really that stupid?" ... and then he keeps talking

Agree completely. I hated but respected Rex and thought he would reestablish himself in Buffalo after merely hitting a slump in New Jersey. But he's been doing a terrible job with the Bills. They almost seem worse on defense than with Marrone.