A Couple of Things Lost in the Shuffle in the loss to Arizona

[Ivan]

No team has perfect execution. All that matters is the final score.

The Patriots missed two field goals and threw an end zone interception in SB38 and still won. Did they not deserve to win that game?

There's two teams out there at all times, both capable of forcing the other team to make errors, both capable of making errors themselves.

Super Bowl opponents are fairly evenly matched on the whole, yesterdays game was supposed to be a mismatch and i doubt so much as one Patriot fan picked the Cards to win. I don't think the Patriots came even close to playing their best football and they made numerous critical mistakes that allowed Arizona to come into Foxboro and walk out with a win. If you simply want to go by the final score you are obviously welcome to look at it that way but I think expectations play a role in how games are perceived and the Patriots were clearly considered a much better team playing at home against a team that doesn't win on the east coast, and their mistakes played a big role in the loss.

 

[goheels22002]

Belichick also took away what Brady does best, his ability to make plays with his playmakers. That was the rub, and it blew up in his face situationally when Hernendez went down.

That's really not true. The Patriots put the ball in the air 46 times yesterday and the playmakers - Welker, Lloyd and Gronkowski all failed to make a catch where the ball hit their hands. Ridley had plenty of carries - 18 for 73 yards. The playmakers had their opportunities.

Belichick and McDaniels did not lose this one. They lost because the players failed to execute. Four sacks, one interception, one blocked punt (unforgivable), a 43-yard FG miss, multiple dropped passes and 8 penalties for minus 60 yards.

The defense did its part. The offense and special teams did not do theirs.

 

[Ivan]

Who cares about who the underdogs were and what happened last year? The Cards have won 9 out of their last 11. I dismissed it last week, but after Sunday I think their defense is legit.

If the Cards lost yesterday, the story would be all they had to do is hold onto the ball and kill the clock and they did the one thing they couldn't do and turn over the ball.

I agree, had the Cards lost everyone would have said they blew it, that's kind of the point. No-one had them even in the game, that's also the point. The Patriots underperformed and lost, that makes them undeserving.

People can say that all that matters is the final score, and at the basest level that is completely accurate, the winner is the winner, period, however expectations and context matter when discussing any game.

And if someone wants to make the argument that the Patriots did deserve to win then i'm not sure that saying that all that matters is the bottom line because they lost, which by that definition would mean they obviously didn't deserve to win.

 

[Ivan]

That's really not true. The Patriots put the ball in the air 46 times yesterday and the playmakers - Welker, Lloyd and Gronkowski all failed to make a catch where the ball hit their hands. Ridley had plenty of carries - 18 for 73 yards. The playmakers had their opportunities.

Belichick and McDaniels did not lose this one. They lost because the players failed to execute. Four sacks, one interception, one blocked punt (unforgivable), a 43-yard FG miss, multiple dropped passes and 8 penalties for minus 60 yards.

The defense did its part. The offense and special teams did not do theirs.

I pretty much agree, although I don't think the coaches had a banner day yesterday.

 

[goheels22002]

Who cares about who the underdogs were and what happened last year? The Cards have won 9 out of their last 11. I dismissed it last week, but after Sunday I think their defense is legit.

If the Cards lost yesterday, the story would be all they had to do is hold onto the ball and kill the clock and they did the one thing they couldn't do and turn over the ball.

The Patriots have won 9 of their last 11, too.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Everyone is looking at the negative from yesterday..but i see a lot of positives on the D side of the ball. Still something to take away even with a L

 

[MoLewisrocks]

They put those players on the roster, on the active list, on the roster and/or on the bench. The game plan was predicated on running out of the two TE set, and it went out the window in the first series.

When that happens you need to focus on your playmakers. They are engineering the personnel groupings so Wes isn't on the radar. Worked too.

Jeff Howe‏@jeffphowe

Brady missed Welker on a two-yard out on the failed two-point conversion. Welker beat his guy and had space to score.



But since week 2 of pre season they've got Tom in the early stages of conditioned not to look for him. Look for Lloyd, Hernandez, Gronk or Edleman.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Jeff Howe‏@jeffphowe

Brady missed Welker on a two-yard out on the failed two-point conversion. Welker beat his guy and had space to score.

I was down that end when that play happened. Everyone was yelling for him to throw it to welker..he was open


I wanted to see a draw on that play

 

[signbabybrady]

The defense did its job. I don't know why people say we didn't "deserve" to win yesterday's game. We've won a lot of game the last four years with just one unit playing well. The defense played elite ball yesterday, and in the NFL, that earns you a victory more often than not. It still took a ton of inopportune plays and a couple questionable calls to do us in.

I think people are missing your point which I do agree with. The defense played one hell of a game and they deserved to win. There have been plenty of games the past few years where maybe the defense didnt deserve the win but our O has been so good we get them anyway that it is a little frustrating to hear our fans use the tagline we didnt deserve to win where given different circumstances say if we were the Ravens fans could easily argue the opposite. The Ravens are so used to winning with their D that they expect the O to let them down and a game like yesterday in their eyes would be a deserving win lost by the O.

 

[BradyManny]

There have been plenty of games the past few years where maybe the defense didnt deserve the win but our O has been so good we get them anyway that it is a little frustrating to hear our fans use the tagline we didnt deserve to win where given different circumstances say if we were the Ravens fans could easily argue the opposite. The Ravens are so used to winning with their D that they expect the O to let them down and a game like yesterday in their eyes would be a deserving win lost by the O.

Well put, agree 100%.

 

[goheels22002]

I pretty much agree, although I don't think the coaches had a banner day yesterday.

I'm not sure about the coaching, but I do know if Brady's pick does not turn into into an easy 3 points and if the blocked punt doesn't turn into 7 really easy points, the Pats win this one.

The Patriots play with a lot of emotion and the momentum was all screwed up all day yesterday. Hernandez' injury quieted the crowd and distracted the players, I think. Drops took away momentum - two in particular. The Welker drop forced the Patriots to punt and the Lloyd drop stalled a drive. Penalties came at the wrong time, particularly the Gregory hit on Kolb out of bounds.

Gronkowski's inability to haul in the pass in the end zone was a drag but he was completely laid out on that one - a very tough catch no matter what.

There were just so many bad plays yesterday. Bill has a lot to work with this week. My guess is the coaches ream them all week long and they'll be sharp for the Ravens.

 

[Kontradiction]

When it comes down to it, the only unit that played well yesterday was the defense. The offensive execution was bad, the special teams gave up a big play, and the coaching was sub-par. Pretty much, it was the exact opposite of the aspects that cost this team games last year.

 

[Ivan]

When it comes down to it, the only unit that played well yesterday was the defense. The offensive execution was bad, the special teams gave up a big play, and the coaching was sub-par. Pretty much, it was the exact opposite of the aspects that cost this team games last year.

That's pretty much how I see it.

 

[Deus Irae]

C'mon, it wasn't that bad. And towards the end, he let Brady give it to his play makers a lot. Earlier in the game, he did too and it was poor execution (Brady overthrowing a wide open Gronk on a deep pass and Welker dropping a critcal third down pass that went through his hands.

It was that bad. You're making the same mistake that so many others are doing. You're taking the outcome and working backwards, while ignoring the fact that it was the Hernandez injury that forced the change in plans. Welker wasn't more involved because they wanted Welker more involved. Welker was more involved because Hernandez was done.

 

[Rob0729]

It was that bad. You're making the same mistake that so many others are doing. You're taking the outcome and working backwards, while ignoring the fact that it was the Hernandez injury that forced the change in plans. Welker wasn't more involved because they wanted Welker more involved. Welker was more involved because Hernandez was done.

But I am not talking about Welker per sea. But if the Pats were focusing their offense around Hernandez and he goes down, replacing him with Welker is now more of the focal point.

The simple fact is that since Hernandez went down on the third offensive play of the game, we will never know if the initial game plan was going to work or not. You can make the strong argument that they did a poor job adjusting to the loss of Hernandez. But to say the game plan they came in with was bad is just not a provable assertion.

 

[Deus Irae]

But I am not talking about Welker per sea. But if the Pats were focusing their offense around Hernandez and he goes down, replacing him with Welker is now more of the focal point.

The simple fact is that since Hernandez went down on the third offensive play of the game, we will never know if the initial game plan was going to work or not. You can make the strong argument that they did a poor job adjusting to the loss of Hernandez. But to say the game plan they came in with was bad is just not a provable assertion.

But we can, because it was clear that they weren't adequately prepared for the loss of Hernandez, despite the obvious possibility of that happening. It's one thing to move significantly away from last year's offense, although I'd argue that it's a very stupid thing to do. It's another, though, to do it all cold turkey, while forcefeeding a vastly different system at the expense of the offense, and team, as they've done for both games this season. They could have made gradual adjustments, while maintaining the great things about the previous offense. Instead, they've pretty much tossed it out.

Tellingly, IMO, it was only when they got back to being more like last year that they finally began really being successful out there.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

It was that bad. You're making the same mistake that so many others are doing. You're taking the outcome and working backwards, while ignoring the fact that it was the Hernandez injury that forced the change in plans. Welker wasn't more involved because they wanted Welker more involved. Welker was more involved because Hernandez was done.

But you're making an unprovable assumption here, too—we simply don't know what his actual PT percentage would have been had Hernandez not been injured. Maybe it would have been even more than the 2/3 or so he had last week. Maybe it would have been less. There's just no way of knowing.

 

[DaBruinz]

Belichick also took away what Brady does best, his ability to make plays with his playmakers. That was the rub, and it blew up in his face situationally when Hernendez went down.

Belichick took away what Brady does best, his ability to make plays with his playmakers??

Mo, are you listening to yourself? That is such absurd BS I'd swear that you were taken over by a Jets fan.

Last I looked, Welker was still out there. Gronkowski was still out there. Lloyd was still out there. Ridley was still out there.

Belichick didn't make Light retire. Belichick didn't make Branch lose a step last year and more this year. Belichick didn't injure Gaffney and make him an afterthought.

And before you mention that Edelman saw more plays than Welker, what about the 50 some odd plays Welker WAS on the field. It's not like Welker was getting open every play he was out there and dominating like we expect.

I swear that the over-reaction by long time fans is bordering on the ridiculous.

 

[DaBruinz]

They put those players on the roster, on the active list, on the roster and/or on the bench. The game plan was predicated on running out of the two TE set, and it went out the window in the first series.

When that happens you need to focus on your playmakers. They are engineering the personnel groupings so Wes isn't on the radar. Worked too.

Jeff Howe‏@jeffphowe

Brady missed Welker on a two-yard out on the failed two-point conversion. Welker beat his guy and had space to score.

But since week 2 of pre season they've got Tom in the early stages of conditioned not to look for him. Look for Lloyd, Hernandez, Gronk or Edleman.

Sorry, Mo, but Brady missing Welker and throwing to Gronk isn't the COACHES engineering the personnel groupings so Wes isn't on the Radar. If Wes hadn't been on the radar, he'd not have been on the field. That was BRADY missing the read, not the coaches.

This idea that they've got Tom conditioned not to look for Welker is a pure figment of your imagination.

 

[Rob0729]

But we can, because it was clear that they weren't adequately prepared for the loss of Hernandez, despite the obvious possibility of that happening. It's one thing to move significantly away from last year's offense, although I'd argue that it's a very stupid thing to do. It's another, though, to do it all cold turkey, while forcefeeding a vastly different system at the expense of the offense, and team, as they've done for both games this season. They could have made gradual adjustments, while maintaining the great things about the previous offense. Instead, they've pretty much tossed it out.

Tellingly, IMO, it was only when they got back to being more like last year that they finally began really being successful out there.

You are asking too much. No team devises game plans based on the possibility of players going out of the game. They try to have contingencies, but those are not nearly as focused. There are 11 players on the field and you would have develop and practice contingency plans for at least 4 or 5. Ain't happening. Not enough time in the week especially to practice multiple contingencies. Especially with restricted practice rules in the new CBA, there is not enough time.

Personally, I think I believe in what Jaws said this morning that they are working on things now to make sure they are clicking down the stretch and in the playoffs.