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2008 Franchise and Transisiton Numbers

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Miguel, Jan 26, 2008.

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  1. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    http://sports-boards.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2084115
    "The franchise numbers came out this week...cornerbacks $9.465 million in guarantees. Here are the rest of the positions for franchise numbers -- defensive ends $8.879 million, defensive tackle $6.363 million, linebacker $8.065 million, offensive line $7.455 million, kickers $2.541 million, quarterbacks $10.73 million, running backs $6.538 million, safeties $4.396 million, tight end $4.522 million and wide receivers $7.848 million. These are the transition numbers: cornerbacks $7.659 million, defensive end $7.679 million, defensive tackle $5.654 million, linebacker $7.335 milllion, offensive line $6.895 million, kicker $2.245 milllion, quarterback $9.5 milllion, running back $5.699 million, safety $3.893 million, tight end $3.733 million and wide receiver $6.872 million."
  2. alamo

    alamo praedica numerum! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Heh, I was going to post the same, but wanted to figure out how they differed from last year (for context):

    Franchise tag numbers:

    Code:
                      2007    2008    Change
    Quarterback      12.615  10.730  -14.9%
    Running Back      6.999   6.538   -6.6%
    Wide Receiver     7.613   7.848    3.1%
    Tight End         4.371   4.522    3.5%
    Kicker/Punter     2.078   2.541   22.3%
    Offensive Lineman 9.556   7.455  -22.0%
    Defensive Tackle  6.775   6.363   -6.1%
    Defensive End     8.644   8.879    2.7%
    Linebacker        7.206   8.065   11.9%
    Cornerback        7.790   9.465   21.5%
    Safety            4.490   4.396   -2.1%
    
    Keep in mind that the franchise amount for a given player must be at least a 20% raise from 2007, even if the above number is lower.
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2008
  3. tatepatsfan

    tatepatsfan Rookie

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    We can't use the franchise on Asante anyways, right? Even if we could, 9.5 mil is an awful lot of money.

    Are there any other FA's that we might possibly use either tag on? I'd say they only player worthy of it would be Moss, but I think he gets a deal done.

    Question for Miguel or anyone else in the know: I have heard many people say that Colvin is an FA at the end of this season, but I think (and Miguel's page) says that his deal runs through next season. He's still signed through next year, right?
  4. alamo

    alamo praedica numerum! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Transition tag numbers:

    Code:
                      2007     2008   Change
    Quarterback      10.182   9.500   -6.7%
    Running Back      5.981   5.699   -4.7%
    Wide Receiver     7.040   6.872   -2.4%
    Tight End         3.612   3.733    3.3%
    Kicker/Punter     1.926   2.245   16.6%
    Offensive Lineman 8.267   6.895  -16.6%
    Defensive Tackle  5.554   5.654    1.8%
    Defensive End     7.701   7.679   -0.3%
    Linebacker        6.493   7.335   13.0%
    Cornerback        6.766   7.659   13.2%
    Safety            3.984   3.893   -2.3%
    
    Transition tags are rarely used but they represent the everage of the top 10 cap numbers at each position (franchise is top 5) so they give a little deeper view of salary trends.
  5. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Makes agreeing not to re-tag Asante a no brainer...

    Colvin is signed through 2008. His cap # is in the $7's so he is ripe for an extension that shouldn't be too expensive considering he is 30 now and coming off an injury. I would think a deal that keeps his AAV around the $4-4.5M mark would get it done, and his signing bonus would likely be not a whole lot more than converting his 2008 salary of $5.5M into signing bonus. OLB's don't come cheap, and ours (Colvin and Vrabel) remain a bargain in the $4M range. AD's deal averaged around $7M per.

    Nobody for us to tag this season. I don't think they would tag Randy even if they didn't get a deal done, unless it was a pre agreed tag and trade exit strategy. I think he will be reasonable and wants to remain somewhere he has finally really fit.
  6. alamo

    alamo praedica numerum! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes he is, and I've never seen anything which indicates it's voidable. I suspect people say that because some people figure if he doesn't renegotiate his 7.328M cap number for 2008 the Pats will cut him. (I think that's the figure Miguel has, the page formatting is a little messed up.)
  7. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Colvin is signed through 2008. The team will look to sign him to an extension. Some indicated that they thought that $4M or so average is reasonable. If that is the offer, he will simply play the year, or go somewhere else if cut to save the $5.5M of 2008 new money. Thankfully posters here don't make the final decisions. I expect the now normal 2-part bonus, with escalating numbers. Just BTW, we all have seen both Colvin and Thomas play in out system. How much better is Thomas for us than Colvin? In the end, Thomas may be more valuable, because we don't ahve another long-term ILB.

  8. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Colvin is not a FA, he's coming off an injury, he's not a pro bowler although he has his moments in this system. What do you think they would extend him into his mid 30's at, mg...He already makes more than Vrabel, always has...
  9. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Interesting that the tag numbers went down for so many positions... I don't recall that happening in the past. A 22% drop for OL?

    I wonder if having Vick out of the game impacts the QB numbers. I'd expect Moss's renegotiated salary had some impact on WRs as well.

    Seeing as Tag salaries are dropping in some cases that's going to make certain players all the more desireable as tagged players - and make those players all the more upset about it.

    I think I'd still pay Asante nearly $10 million for one more season - but I also respect that the Franchise tag was not meant to be abused in that way, as such I have no problem with the compromise the Pats came to with him... they got an extra year to plan for his loss and he played every game, helping us achieve near greatness at 18-0 and counting.
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2008
  10. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Miguel, can you give us an estimated date as to when you'll be posting your first update on the 2008 roster and cap figures. I'm looking forward to seeing it.
  11. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I'm also trying to figure out who, if anyone, would be worth tagging?

    While we've got a handful of guys who're up at the end of the season I can't see where anyone would be worth those amounts -

    Tagging Moss would have serious negative ramifications - ensuring no player of his caliber ever again takes a one year "prove it" deal again, lest they shoot themselves in the foot by being tagged - so I don't see that happening.
  12. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We likely won't tag Moss. However, I think he'd be willing to play for $7.8M next year.

  13. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I will have the 2008 pages up and ready to go the Monday after the Super Bowl.
  14. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Yes - I'm sure just like Asante was very happy about playing for $7.8 million this year.

    Are you crazy? Moss would flip if we tagged him. I don't think he'd be willing to play under another one year only contract at all. Now maybe a 5 year contract that averages out to $8 million a year with about half of that guaranteed - its possible he'd be happy with that. But not a one year $8 million contract.

    He agreed to a one year low salary contract so he could show everyone he was worthy of a new long term lucrative deal. As it stands I think he'll agree sign here for a pretty huge contract - less than what he might get in open bidding - but he'd be insulted if we offered him a one year deal - and even more incensed if we forced it on him with a franchise tag.

    I think there's a general understanding among players in the NFL and Belichick that he's fair when it comes to dealing with players. Belichick knows that works in his favor in the long term because he can attract better players and even convince them to sign short term "prove it" contracts in certain situations.

    Abusing the Franchise tag by assigning it to Asante for multiple years would have hurt the Patriots in the long term - and using it on Moss would do the same.
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2008
  15. dwayne

    dwayne Rookie

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    What;s the chances the Pats don't give Asante the big contract he wants and use our pick to grab a replacement?
  16. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I'm putting that at about 100% - give or take 0%.

    I give Asante credit for not talking about his pending free agency this season - but I think its understood by all he's on the open market and will go to the highest bidder.

    And I think there's 0% chance that the Patriots would outbid 31 other teams and get him.

    The question of whether we use the #7 pick for a CB is another matter entirely.
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2008
  17. dwayne

    dwayne Rookie

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    Yeah, tagging Moss would be ludicrous.

    The Moss, Dillon, Seau type signings have been fantastic for the Pats. Getting quality veterans who are willing to come to a well-coached and organised side at a reduced salary is a big plus for the Pats, and tagging Moss may negate that.

    Players may see that putting themselves in the "shop window" for the Pats isn't worth it if the long term deal they want will be denied.
  18. dwayne

    dwayne Rookie

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    Just noticed you said pretty much teh exact same thing in an earlier post, JoeSixPat...
  19. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    :rocker::rocker::rocker: 45678910
  20. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Can anyone shed any light on the significant DROP in some of the tag values?

    I mentioned a few players lost from the equations, but I don't recall this happening before, in an age when the cap goes UP every year...

    I can only think this indicates a shift in where GMs are prioritizing salaries.
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